NEW ARTICLE: MORSE: Is Belichick Taking Back his Team?

[upstater1]

That's all conjecture on your part.

The real truth is that a team without any top players wins nothing, strife or no strife. And recently Bill seems to want to get rid of the best players even if he doesn't get anything in return.

The 2007 Giants nearly had a riot early in the season but the players, led by Michael Strahan, had a sit down with Coughlin and got him to change his tyrannical ways. That led to 2 SB wins against Bill. Maybe that kind of soul searching is needed here more than fans giving Bill constant reach arounds even when he makes mistakes.

Totally irrelevant to the discussion. I'm not sure what about my post is conjecture. There was no conjecture. I wrote that you can't have players undermining the coach. That should go without saying. You think a team without leadership can be a winning team?

 

[upstater1]

And so Bill himself, with unlimited power as both HC & GM, is really the one undermining this team's chances of success.

So fire him then. I already said that if Kraft thinks he's not doing the job, fire him. BUT absolutely every case it should never be the players running the asylum. I remember that happened to Pete Carroll and the team went nowhere.

 

[captain stone]

But why? That's the part that I don't understand. He's a great HC but his GM moves lately have been terrible.

A man's got to know his limitations.

- H. Callahan

 

[NormZauchin]

So fire him then. I already said that if Kraft thinks he's not doing the job, fire him. BUT absolutely every case it should never be the players running the asylum. I remember that happened to Pete Carroll and the team went nowhere.

Under Carroll the Patriots were 27-21, made the playoffs in two of the three years he coached, and even won one playoff game. If the team went nowhere in the three years Carroll coached (and I don't disagree with this characterization), they are certainly going nowhere in Belichick's three-year Brady less tenure.

 

[upstater1]

Under Carroll the Patriots were 27-21, made the playoffs in two of the three years he coached, and even won one playoff game. If the team went nowhere in the three years Carroll coached (and I don't disagree with this characterization), they are certainly going nowhere in Belichick's three-year Brady less tenure.

He coached for 4 years and got worse each and every year.

His team was loaded, not in the middle of a rebuild.

You got that wrong.

 

[Noexcusesfornumber5]

Under Carroll the Patriots were 27-21, made the playoffs in two of the three years he coached, and even won one playoff game. If the team went nowhere in the three years Carroll coached (and I don't disagree with this characterization), they are certainly going nowhere in Belichick's three-year Brady less tenure.

If only every coach that failed had a Tom Brady. The defense would have been better, the Special Teams would have been better, the urinal cakes would have smelled like Bradys jockstrap after hunching Mr Ross.

 

[captain stone]

If only every coach that failed had a Tom Brady. The defense would have been better, the Special Teams would have been better, the urinal cakes would have smelled like Bradys jockstrap after hunching Mr Ross.

And if Little Billy didn't have Brady available for week 3 of 2001, then he would've been a failure here too.

 

[n6249c]

And if Little Billy didn't have Brady available for week 3 of 2001, then he would've been a failure here too.

And if a frog didnt jump it wouldn’t bump it’s bottom.

point is, BB had TB available. Many, perhaps most coaches, either would not have, or would’ve caved to the adage that you don’t lose your job to injury and benched TB as soon as Bledsoe was ready to come back.

 

[NormZauchin]

He coached for 4 years and got worse each and every year.

His team was loaded, not in the middle of a rebuild.

You got that wrong.

How can someone say I got something wrong (I did agree that the Patriots were going nowhere under Carroll) but be so ignorant that he misstates the number of years that Carroll coached the Pats.

 

[upstater1]

How can someone say I got something wrong (I did agree that the Patriots were going nowhere under Carroll) but be so ignorant that he misstates the number of years that Carroll coached the Pats.

Well, you got me there. I was wrong. It seemed interminable.

Nevertheless, Carroll had the very same players that propelled Belichick to our first Super Bowl.

It was a much more talented team than the the one we saw in 2020 when Belichick cleaned house here.

I'll maintain these are two totally different caliber of coaches.

It's not even that difficult to prove.

Look what happened on the sidelines with 40 seconds left in the 2014 Super Bowl

 

[Stu Pidassle]

Bill undermined himself.

The situation with the coaches in 2022 is all on BB. All leading scientific authorities have established that the myth associated with self undermining causing permanent blindness is quite untrue. The issues have been addressed and are not an on-going problem. Hopefully BB will bring a shovel and a pencil to the first practice this year and bury 2022.

 

[NormZauchin]

Well, you got me there. I was wrong. It seemed interminable.

Nevertheless, Carroll had the very same players that propelled Belichick to our first Super Bowl.

It was a much more talented team than the the one we saw in 2020 when Belichick cleaned house here.

I'll maintain these are two totally different caliber of coaches.

It's not even that difficult to prove.

Look what happened on the sidelines with 40 seconds left in the 2014 Super Bowl

I am not saying that Carroll and Belichick are the equal as coaches. I was glad when Kraft fired Carroll after three seasons of declining team performance. But it wasn't all on Carroll. Drew Bledsoe was part of the problem. His passing TDs went 28, 20, 19 and his QBR 87.7, 80.9, 75.6 in Carroll's three seasons. And Carroll eventually proved himself to be a good NFL coach.

 

[upstater1]

I am not saying that Carroll and Belichick are the equal as coaches. I was glad when Kraft fired Carroll after three seasons of declining team performance. But it wasn't all on Carroll. Drew Bledsoe was part of the problem. His passing TDs went 28, 20, 19 and his QBR 87.7, 80.9, 75.6 in Carroll's three seasons. And Carroll eventually proved himself to be a good NFL coach.

Agree, but we're well off the point.

When players undermine the coach, it's over. That's my point. You seemed to be saying it's over.

I disagree, there last few years have been a rebuilding job, with almost no one other than Slater and Wise left from before the rebuild. And Wise was an afterthought back then.

 

[NormZauchin]

Agree, but we're well off the point.

When players undermine the coach, it's over. That's my point. You seemed to be saying it's over.

I disagree, there last few years have been a rebuilding job, with almost no one other than Slater and Wise left from before the rebuild. And Wise was an afterthought back then.

Belichick deserves another year on the rebuild, but if the Pats don't come in with at least a 9-8 record, I think it would be time to find a new head coach.

 

[upstater1]

Belichick deserves another year on the rebuild, but if the Pats don't come in with at least a 9-8 record, I think it would be time to find a new head coach.

Be prepared to blow it all up if that happens. This personnel is geared for Belichick's style coaching. They won't be as good on D in some other system.

The offense is what it is.

If they fire Belichick, the next year they go 4-12, and they'll need to start the rebuild under a new coach.

 

[203Pat]

No but there are many different ways to show that you don't think what is happening is correct and Mac looked petulant at times last year which is probably not the best way of voicing it

By no means do I think Mac handled it well but by all accounts Mac has been in the building working every day so one would think he has put 2022 in the rearview where it seems like Bill hasn't. If a 24 year old kid heading into his third year in the league has to be the bigger man in this scenario then Bill's ego has really inflated to an unimaginable size. At this point Bill needs to realize his future with the team is tied to Mac and if Mac fails Bill is likely going to get "retired".

 

[n6249c]

By no means do I think Mac handled it well but by all accounts Mac has been in the building working every day so one would think he has put 2022 in the rearview where it seems like Bill hasn't. If a 24 year old kid heading into his third year in the league has to be the bigger man in this scenario then Bill's ego has really inflated to an unimaginable size. At this point Bill needs to realize his future with the team is tied to Mac and if Mac fails Bill is likely going to get "retired".

The “bigger man” idea is totally specious. Mac is working hard and trying to forget he stunk. Bill is reminding him he stunk to keep him working as hard as he can to not stink in the future. They’re really both pulling together. Mac wanted to be coached harder, and Bill is rising to that challenge.

 

[203Pat]

The “bigger man” idea is totally specious. Mac is working hard and trying to forget he stunk. Bill is reminding him he stunk to keep him working as hard as he can to not stink in the future. They’re really both pulling together. Mac wanted to be coached harder, and Bill is rising to that challenge.

Calls my post specious then makes specious post. Mac did stink and he did look to handle the situation pretty poorly at times but Bill not committing to him as the starter just seems counterproductive at this point. Mac already heard the Zappe chants during MNF last season and unless Bill truly believes Zappe can be the starter I don't see what he has to gain by not backing Mac. Mac and his "coached harder" nonsense seemed to be a "I need someone to help me" more than I need Bill to grumble and be a hard ass but that is just my interpretation. Honestly it comes off as Bill holding a grudge that Mac didn't like Bill ruining the second year of his career by inserting his Nantucket vacation buddy as OC. Bill needs to get over it.

 

[NormZauchin]

Calls my post specious then makes specious post. Mac did stink and he did look to handle the situation pretty poorly at times but Bill not committing to him as the starter just seems counterproductive at this point. Mac already heard the Zappe chants during MNF last season and unless Bill truly believes Zappe can be the starter I don't see what he has to gain by not backing Mac. Mac and his "coached harder" nonsense seemed to be a "I need someone to help me" more than I need Bill to grumble and be a hard ass but that is just my interpretation. Honestly it comes off as Bill holding a grudge that Mac didn't like Bill ruining the second year of his career by inserting his Nantucket vacation buddy as OC. Bill needs to get over it.

I also have to compare BB's public treatment of Mac since the 2022 season ended to his strong support of Cam in the 2020 season. By the second half of that season, it was apparent that Cam's career as a top ten NFL quarterback was over. Yet Bill never wavered in his endorsement of Cam as his starter. Thankfully, he did have an open quarterback competition in camp the following year, which Mac won. Cam was never the future for New England, Mac could be. Bill needs to say something like, "Mac is the starter now, but we'll run an open competition in camp at every position, including quarterback. The players who perform the best will play."

 

[203Pat]

I also have to compare BB's public treatment of Mac since the 2022 season ended to his strong support of Cam in the 2020 season. By the second half of that season, it was apparent that Cam's career as a top ten NFL quarterback was over. Yet Bill never wavered in his endorsement of Cam as his starter. Thankfully, he did have an open quarterback competition in camp the following year, which Mac won. Cam was never the future for New England, Mac could be. Bill needs to say something like, "Mac is the starter now, but we'll run an open competition in camp at every position, including quarterback. The players who perform the best will play."

There's ways to be diplomatic about it while still calling Mac the starter. Chad Graff wrote and article highlighting the rift from both perspectives and I am sorry but Mac had a right to be pissed. Bill was screwing with his career. From The Athletic:

But from Belichick’s perspective, how could any player — let alone a second-year QB with zero playoff wins — be so self-important and pompous as to bail on the coaching staff selected by a six-time Super Bowl-winning coach? How can you trust someone to be the leader of the franchise if he doesn’t trust your staff?

Maybe, Belichick would admit privately, the coaching situation wasn’t ideal. But to him, that’s no reason to — at least in his eyes — turn your back on the team and seek help elsewhere. Belichick has always been wary of contributions from outside the team’s building. He didn’t even let Tom Brady bring his personal trainer into the facility. Given that, he surely wasn’t going to be thrilled with a far less established quarterback daring to look outside the vaunted walls of Gillette Stadium.

The Bill Belichick-Mac Jones rift is real — and it's hard to blame either side

The relationship between the coach and quarterback needs mending, and success this fall seems like the best way to get there.

theathletic.com