My Takeaways from the Week 9 matchup and why this time will be much different

[Ric_Flair]

Maybe Josh has more of a say to over rule any stupid playcall like that boneheaded one.....

I certainly hope so. IMO, BOB can't GTFO quick enough for me.
That pass call in THAT situation...was the most ******ed thing I've seen.

Also an interesting tid bit. Brady was playing with an injured elbow at that point in the season. His arm slot was affected to a large degree, and his balls were floating on him. He's since rectified that mechanic with the help of Tom Martinez, and he's probably been talking to him about it since the AFCCCG because his balls were floating and high that game as well.

Brady is finally healthy. If he can keep his wits about him...we have a chance of winning this ball game. If he plays like he HAS BEEN against good playoff team of the last 3-4 years...then we have ZERO chance.

 

[guardplay320]

I agree. The Giants probably more so.

But I would ask my Giants-fans friends this: The Patriots committed *4* turnovers and two ghastly penalties that led to NY touchdowns. There were four fumbles in the game and three of them were recovered by NY (causing a fumble is a skill; recovering one is mostly luck of the bounce). Gostowski missed a 27-yard FG. All that happened and the Giants barely won.

Do you (to my friends) think that all that will happen again? Why?

If you agree that both teams are considerably better now, it doesn't really pay to debate on why the Giants won last time. Two different teams, both should be pretty healthy. Should be a great game with very interesting match-ups. How the Patriots will contain the healthy Giants passing game will be fascinating the watch. Cruz and Manningham (with a dose of Ballard and Jacobs out of the backfield) is a lot easier to cover than Cruz, Nicks, Manningham (with a dose of Ballard and Bradshaw and Jacobs out of the backfield). How the Giants will contain all of the weapons the Pats have (especially if Gronk is healthy) will be equally as fascinating. Brady has much different weapons than he did back in the prior superbowls. How the Giants handle the quick slot passes and screen passes will be huge. The battle of the lines will of course be key.

 

[Double TE]

I think it all comes down to turnovers. Lets hope they have more.

 

[AzPatsFan]

Re: My Takeaways from the Week 9 match up and why this time will be much different

Mangini did a masterful analysis of what the Giants have done in the past game. They crowd the center and weaken up on the outside. The Giants recognize that the Pats WRs are somewhat limited.

The way to beat them is to make them pay for a few outside throws. As I recall Dion has battled a groin/hamstring all season. I don't think you can win with Tiquan or Slater as outside WRs. So it may just come down to letting Dion and Ocho play ,and surprise them with an occasional shot outside.

I also think they outsize the Giants when they play their 4 DE Rush line. Canty the only one that weighs 300#s, can't stop the run all by himself, And significantly, Chase Blackburn SLB, is not practicing. Boley is just SS sized at LB and he is the best they have.

So a game plan based on
a) running,
b) getting short completions inside as always, and
c) completing some outside medium depth throws.

Together that is an attacking recipe that controls clock, wears out their light defensive linemen, thus neutralizing them, and surprises and counters the Giants defensive strategy.

The Giants can't run, 89 ypg, and you have to hope that a one dimensional Giants Offense won't match the Pats offensive output. The Giants passing game is predicated on three WRs. Significantly, none are any of those big WRs with which the the Pats usually have so much problem. They didn't in the past game either.

Everyone forgets or overlooks that the "hot" Giants have produced no significant difference in pass rush over what the Patriots have done the last 5 games too.

NYG 20 sacks, 28 TFLs, and 31 QB hits
NE 19 sacks, 29 TFLs, and 31 QB hits

What is the difference? Where is the massive superiority?:snob:

 

[guardplay320]

Re: My Takeaways from the Week 9 match up and why this time will be much different

Mangini did a masterful analysis of what the Giants have done in the past game. They crowd the center and weaken up on the outside. The Giants recognize that the Pats WRs are somewhat limited.

The way to beat them is to make them pay for a few outside throws. As I recall Dion has battled a groin/hamstring all season. I don't think you can win with Tiquan or Slater as outside WRs. So it may just come down to letting Dion and Ocho play ,and surprise them with an occasional shot outside.

I also think they outsize the Giants when they play their 4 DE Rush line. Canty the only one that weighs 300#s, can't stop the run all by himself, And significantly, Chase Blackburn SLB, is not practicing. Boley is just SS sized at LB and he is the best they have.

So a game plan based on
a) running,
b) getting short completions inside as always, and
c) completing some outside medium depth throws.

Together that is an attacking recipe that controls clock, wears out their light defensive linemen, thus neutralizing them, and surprises and counters the Giants defensive strategy.

The Giants can't run, 89 ypg, and you have to hope that a one dimensional Giants Offense won't match the Pats offensive output. The Giants passing game is predicated on three WRs. Significantly, none are any of those big WRs with which the the Pats usually have so much problem. They didn't in the past game either.

Everyone forgets or overlooks that the "hot" Giants have produced no significant difference in pass rush over what the Patriots have done the last 5 games too.

NYG 20 sacks, 28 TFLs, and 31 QB hits
NE 19 sacks, 29 TFLs, and 31 QB hits

What is the difference? Where is the massive superiority?:snob:

Just some counter points from a Giants fan:

1) Canty is not the only one that weighs over 300 pounds. They have Linval Joseph and Rocky Bernard as well. Joseph in particular has more tackles than Canty. Both are very important in stopping the run game up the middle.

2) I agree with the Pats needing to take shots on the outside down the field. That's how the 49ers killed them with Davis. Of course, corners would be covering the WR's for the Pats and not the safeties who were guarding Davis.

3) The Giants run game was very weak during the season, but it has picked up in recent weeks with both Bradshaw and Jacobs healthy. You can't take too much from a below average performance against the sick 49ers running defense as they've done that to all teams all year long.

4) Blackburn is fine. Coaches have made it clear all players who didn't practice for the Giants will be playing that Sunday. I don't think Blackburn's injury is even serious. He's been huge for them since he came back.

5) Nicks is a big WR that the Pats would typically have a problem with. He didn't give your problems in the last matchup because he didn't play. Don't sleep on the lethal combo of Nicks, Cruz and Manningham. The key for you guys is to get to Eli, especially on broken plays. Eli thrives on broken plays and has an awesome connection with all 3 WR's and the RB's (particularly Cruz and Bradshaw) on where the ball will be going should the pocket break down. Don't sleep on Ballard also. He hurt you guys last time. he's been playing injured, but hopefully the two weeks helps him heal up.

6) I agree that the Pats defense has clearly stepped up with the pass rush, especially Wilfork who has been a beast. That said, they played the Broncos twice, the Doplhins, the Bills and the Ravens. We aren't exactly talking about offensive juggernauts here. The Giants played the Packers, Cowboys, Falcons (all very good offensive teams, particularly passing) and the 49ers and Jets (not very good offensive teams). Quality of opponent is a factor here. The Giants are the best offensive team that the Pats have seen in quite awhile and one of the best offensive teams they've seen all year. Obviously, the Pats are one of the best if not the best offensive teams in the league, so both defenses will have their hands full.

 

[BradyManny]

Re: My Takeaways from the Week 9 match up and why this time will be much different

Mangini did a masterful analysis of what the Giants have done in the past game. They crowd the center and weaken up on the outside. The Giants recognize that the Pats WRs are somewhat limited.

The way to beat them is to make them pay for a few outside throws. As I recall Dion has battled a groin/hamstring all season. I don't think you can win with Tiquan or Slater as outside WRs. So it may just come down to letting Dion and Ocho play ,and surprise them with an occasional shot outside.

Great post all around.

I took away from last nite's rewatch of NFLN just what you are talking about - the middle of the field is generally clogged. Some things happened which cleared it up a little. One was play action - we got Welker over the middle a few times on it. And one was the Giants own doing - they started bringing more heat in the 4th quarter, and Brady made a ton of great throws under pressure.

But I wonder if a nice wrinkle would be to have Gronk on the outside, or to run that wheel route to the outside. One, I'm wondering if his ability to make those quick cuts on all the inside routes will be compromised by his ankle. Two, I wonder if Gronk on the outside is an element that will have the Giants open up the middle a little bit. Brady has success on seam throws to Gronk, and intermediate throws across the middle to him - and that's against D's where the seams and middle of the field will be open. It won't be against the NYG necessarily - since they really seem to focus on that more than other teams. Get Gronk closer to the sideline, Brady can still make that throw, and Gronk can beat his man, busted ankle or not.

 

[Catch42]

Re: My Takeaways from the Week 9 match up and why this time will be much different

6) I agree that the Pats defense has clearly stepped up with the pass rush, especially Wilfork who has been a beast. That said, they played the Broncos twice, the Doplhins, the Bills and the Ravens. We aren't exactly talking about offensive juggernauts here. The Giants played the Packers, Cowboys, Falcons (all very good offensive teams, particularly passing) and the 49ers and Jets (not very good offensive teams). Quality of opponent is a factor here. The Giants are the best offensive team that the Pats have seen in quite awhile and one of the best offensive teams they've seen all year. Obviously, the Pats are one of the best if not the best offensive teams in the league, so both defenses will have their hands full.

Completely agree with this. Defensive stops on Tebow aren't the same as shutting down Green Bay.

 

[oldskool138]

Re: My Takeaways from the Week 9 match up and why this time will be much different

But I wonder if a nice wrinkle would be to have Gronk on the outside, or to run that wheel route to the outside. One, I'm wondering if his ability to make those quick cuts on all the inside routes will be compromised by his ankle. Two, I wonder if Gronk on the outside is an element that will have the Giants open up the middle a little bit. Brady has success on seam throws to Gronk, and intermediate throws across the middle to him - and that's against D's where the seams and middle of the field will be open. It won't be against the NYG necessarily - since they really seem to focus on that more than other teams. Get Gronk closer to the sideline, Brady can still make that throw, and Gronk can beat his man, busted ankle or not.

Or they could, you know, run the ball effectively to open up the passing game. I don't care if Tom goes 8/14 and 100 yards so long as they win the game.

 

[BradyManny]

Re: My Takeaways from the Week 9 match up and why this time will be much different

Or they could, you know, run the ball effectively to open up the passing game. I don't care if Tom goes 8/14 and 100 yards so long as they win the game.

I'd love to see them establish the run. But part of the Giants clogging the middle of the field means a lot of guys in the box and at the line - so they were able to be OK vs the run for most of that November game. Benny was running effectively to start the game, but then the Giants crowded the box more, it seemed to me.

 

[RelocatedPatFan]

Re: My Takeaways from the Week 9 match up and why this time will be much different

But I wonder if a nice wrinkle would be to have Gronk on the outside, or to run that wheel route to the outside. One, I'm wondering if his ability to make those quick cuts on all the inside routes will be compromised by his ankle. Two, I wonder if Gronk on the outside is an element that will have the Giants open up the middle a little bit. Brady has success on seam throws to Gronk, and intermediate throws across the middle to him - and that's against D's where the seams and middle of the field will be open. It won't be against the NYG necessarily - since they really seem to focus on that more than other teams. Get Gronk closer to the sideline, Brady can still make that throw, and Gronk can beat his man, busted ankle or not.

Veronon Davis had a couple nice plays starting inside and breaking to the outside and then running down the line. I think might be a good move for Hernandez (as I assume he's faster than Gronk and Gronk will be limited with his injury).

 

[patsfaninpittsburgh]

Re: My Takeaways from the Week 9 match up and why this time will be much different

Completely agree with this. Defensive stops on Tebow aren't the same as shutting down Green Bay.

Why not?

Did you see Green Bay's execution?

Drops, turnovers and over throws without a Giants defender in the same time zone.

If the Packers simply executed, they blow the Giants out by multi scores.

Ofcourse, the flip side is what secret Jedi mind tricks did New York pull out?

 

[Kid~Brady]

We also didn't use the no-huddle as much for this game. Something like 4 plays only

 

[guardplay320]

Re: My Takeaways from the Week 9 match up and why this time will be much different

Why not?

Did you see Green Bay's execution?

Drops, turnovers and over throws without a Giants defender in the same time zone.

If the Packers simply executed, they blow the Giants out by multi scores.

Ofcourse, the flip side is what secret Jedi mind tricks did New York pull out?

There were obviously some bad drops, but your comment that Green Bay would have blow out the giants by multiple scores is overstated and beyond ridiculous. The Giants blew out the Packers and the score would have been even more lopsided if not for some blatantly bad calls. Anybody who watched the game knows the calls I am talking about because they were the worst two calls in the entire playoffs (the Jennings reviewed fumble that still wasn't overturned and the "late hit, blow to the head" shot on Rodgers which was way out there). You know when people are still complaining about calls against a playoff team that won after the fact (and not just Giants fans by any emans), that they were REALLY bad calls.

If the Packers didn't have so many drops and those calls went the right way, the Giants still likely would have won that game. More than the drops, Rodgers seemed off and that's what the Giants benefited from more than anything. Either way, even the Packers offense that came out that day was miles better than Denver's offense.

 

[patsfaninpittsburgh]

Re: My Takeaways from the Week 9 match up and why this time will be much different

There were obviously some bad drops, but your comment that Green Bay would have blow out the giants by multiple scores is overstated and beyond ridiculous. The Giants blew out the Packers and the score would have been even more lopsided if not for some blatantly bad calls. Anybody who watched the game knows the calls I am talking about because they were the worst two calls in the entire playoffs (the Jennings reviewed fumble that still wasn't overturned and the "late hit, blow to the head" shot on Rodgers which was way out there). You know when people are still complaining about calls against a playoff team that won after the fact (and not just Giants fans by any emans), that they were REALLY bad calls.

If the Packers didn't have so many drops and those calls went the right way, the Giants still likely would have won that game. More than the drops, Rodgers seemed off and that's what the Giants benefited from more than anything. Either way, even the Packers offense that came out that day was miles better than Denver's offense.

Ahhhh, no, the bad call turnovers were as bad as the non bad call turnovers.

And no the Packers offense "that came out that day" wasn't "miles better". To state that is beyond stupid. That offense was horrific.

Bad throws under zero duress
Drops with no Giants defender in the same time zone
Fumbles (Called and not called) with zero reason to fumble

Great and good offenses EXECUTE. They didn't they stunk....because they didn't EXECUTE. What had happened the weeks before is immaterial.