My problem with Bill Belichick as a coach

[1960Pats]

The Patriots are good because of Brady.

Brady's biggest asset is his brain and his lack of mistakes.

Brady also handles the mediots very well. Belichick could learn something from him. You don't have to be a ****head to avoid questions. Brady manages to pull it off.

 

[1960Pats]

I'm not a big fan of the "pats draft later" defense. The Pats may start at 30 but they still have had plenty of picks, 17 1st's and 25 2nd's under BB, more than any other team. They had the 23rd pick last year and chose Sony Michel. Though not a bust like some of the other early picks he looks like a poor choice.

As for the claim that Belichick is the reason for Brady's success and not the other way around, the record speaks loud and clear. With Brady and BB the Pats are 197-57 regular season and 27-10 in the playoffs. Without Brady but with BB they're 19-19 with no playoff games. It's pretty obvious which of them is most influential when it comes to winning.

 

[BaconGrundleCandy]

I'm not a big fan of the "pats draft later" defense. The Pats may start at 30 but they still have had plenty of picks, 17 1st's and 25 2nd's under BB, more than any other team. They had the 23rd pick last year and chose Sony Michel. Though not a bust like some of the other early picks he looks like a poor choice.

As for the claim that Belichick is the reason for Brady's success and not the other way around, the record speaks loud and clear. With Brady and BB the Pats are 197-57 regular season and 27-10 in the playoffs. Without Brady but with BB they're 19-19 with no playoff games. It's pretty obvious which of them is most influential when it comes to winning.

We took Sony at 31, Wynn 23.

Wynn was a outstanding pick but injuries happen. No injury history to make you worry. Sh it happens.

Sony is a great fit but you never draft WR/RB in the 1st. Ever. Unless you're getting Moss, CJ, Fitz etc you pass. This should be a rule.

Wynn/Sony were both "win now" picks that would contribute day 1.

This year's draft will be fascinating from a win now/build long term approach.

Are we going to look at a trade(s) for proven talent or really commit to getting younger talent on the field.

Rounding out a top 50-75 list of P-TP's now.

 

[Brady6]

Last year Kyle Shannan went from a coach who lost the first 9 games of the season to a coach who won the final 5 games of the season. Did he become a better coach all of a sudden? No he had a good QB, Belichick has had the best QB in the game for the better part of 2 decades. As a result he has won a lot of games.

Before I hear about 2008 I just want to point out that the team missed the playoffs and lost 5 more games than it did the season before, and Cassel is not a horrible QB he is still in the league today and had winning seasons and a pro bowl appeared with the Chiefs.

Belichick is the ultimate correlation vs. causation falsely. I would have fired him immediately after the SB if I was Kraft. Imagine how many Super Bowls Brady would have won if he had someone who didn’t draft horrible players or injured players, sign poor free agents, and trade away good players for below market value?

 

[captain stone]

I would have fired him immediately after the SB if I was Kraft. Imagine how many Super Bowls Brady would have won if he had someone who didn’t draft horrible players or injured players, sign poor free agents, and trade away good players for below market value?

Nine.

 

[TomPatriot]

Last year Kyle Shannan went from a coach who lost the first 9 games of the season to a coach who won the final 5 games of the season. Did he become a better coach all of a sudden? No he had a good QB, Belichick has had the best QB in the game for the better part of 2 decades. As a result he has won a lot of games.

Before I hear about 2008 I just want to point out that the team missed the playoffs and lost 5 more games than it did the season before, and Cassel is not a horrible QB he is still in the league today and had winning seasons and a pro bowl appeared with the Chiefs.

Belichick is the ultimate correlation vs. causation falsely. I would have fired him immediately after the SB if I was Kraft. Imagine how many Super Bowls Brady would have won if he had someone who didn’t draft horrible players or injured players, sign poor free agents, and trade away good players for below market value?

Missing the playoffs was a fluke. By the end of the year, the only team better than the Pats was Pittsburgh. Maybe.

 

[TomPatriot]

Nine.

Nein.

 

[TomPatriot]

As for the claim that Belichick is the reason for Brady's success and not the other way around, the record speaks loud and clear. With Brady and BB the Pats are 197-57 regular season and 27-10 in the playoffs. Without Brady but with BB they're 19-19 with no playoff games. It's pretty obvious which of them is most influential when it comes to winning.

Hot take. You are combining the first year, when they had no talent, with 2008, when they went 11-5 with Matt Cassel. That 2008 team was a damn good team. Not making the playoffs was a fluke because 11-5 almost always gets a team in.

Pretty obvious they have both played a huge role in the Patriots’ success.

 

[DarrylS]

Brady also handles the mediots very well. Belichick could learn something from him. You don't have to be a ****head to avoid questions. Brady manages to pull it off.

Do not see BB as a "****head" with the media, it has always seemed his demeanor is an effort to take the focus off of players and put it squarely on him.. if asked a football question he answers intelligently, if you ask him about last weeks game he will not answer. The focus is always on the next game, one might think the sports media would have figured that out by now.

 

[luuked]

The Pats may start at 30 but they still have had plenty of picks, 17 1st's and 25 2nd's under BB, more than any other team.

The majority of those 1sts and 2nds were essentially the equivalent of 2nds and 3rds for the teams that pick in the top 10.

One of the most braindead takes around here is conflating first rounders together as if they are equal. You have your top 10-12 (+\- however good that year is) of blue chippers and then the next 50 picks have more or less a similar chance of succeeding.

 

[zoostation]

Tom is not Tom without Bill and Bill is not Bill without Tom.

 

[Kdo5]

2009, 2011, 2013. The Patriots probably miss the playoffs each of those years w/a slightly lesser QB than Brady.

And there are other years where they would at best go 9-7, 10-6 or 11-5.

Bill is a great coach but Brady has largely covered for bad personell decisions over the years.

 

[Ring 6]

The majority of those 1sts and 2nds were essentially the equivalent of 2nds and 3rds for the teams that pick in the top 10.

One of the most braindead takes around here is conflating first rounders together as if they are equal. You have your top 10-12 (+\- however good that year is) of blue chippers and then the next 50 picks have more or less a similar chance of succeeding.

But you are missing the point. You have to take the team that Belichick built that is the most successful ever and understand that Belichick was only responsible for messing them up so they didn’t win EVERY super bowl. If it wasn’t for Belichick some other random person would have made all the decision that built a team he was supposed to win the Sb with and then made other ones too that would have been perfect.
Belichick has just been lucky because someone handed him teams that were so good he should have won 9 SBs because you know there was so much talent on those teams that if the guy picking the talent didnt screw up be woikd have won it all almost twice as many times more than any one ever has.
It’s so obvious. Bill Belichick’s personell decisions screwed up the unstoppable team that bill Belichick put together.

 

[PatsFan2]

2009, 2011, 2013. The Patriots probably miss the playoffs each of those years w/a slightly lesser QB than Brady.

And there are other years where they would at best go 9-7, 10-6 or 11-5.

Bill is a great coach but Brady has largely covered for bad personnel decisions over the years.

And anybody who think others wise stop the BB Idolatry he's takes a crap and piss like everybody else.

 

[luuked]

And there are other years where they would at best go 9-7, 10-6 or 11-5.

And assuming no HoF QB ending up with those records is something to be ashamed of or considered not successful ? Seriously?

No wonder the clowns in here can’t appreciate or respect other first ballot HoF coaches like Andy Reid.

 

[1960Pats]

We took Sony at 31, Wynn 23.

Wynn was a outstanding pick but injuries happen. No injury history to make you worry. Sh it happens.

Sony is a great fit but you never draft WR/RB in the 1st. Ever. Unless you're getting Moss, CJ, Fitz etc you pass. This should be a rule.

Wynn/Sony were both "win now" picks that would contribute day 1.

This year's draft will be fascinating from a win now/build long term approach.

Are we going to look at a trade(s) for proven talent or really commit to getting younger talent on the field.

Rounding out a top 50-75 list of P-TP's now.

Thanks for the correction.

 

[iapatsfan]

We took Sony at 31, Wynn 23.

Wynn was a outstanding pick but injuries happen. No injury history to make you worry. Sh it happens.

Sony is a great fit but you never draft WR/RB in the 1st. Ever. Unless you're getting Moss, CJ, Fitz etc you pass. This should be a rule.

Wynn/Sony were both "win now" picks that would contribute day 1.

This year's draft will be fascinating from a win now/build long term approach.

Are we going to look at a trade(s) for proven talent or really commit to getting younger talent on the field.

Rounding out a top 50-75 list of P-TP's now.

Two offensive picks in the 1st seemed odd coming off a Superbowl where you had over 500 yds passing, didn't punt and lost.

 

[patfanken]

Not fully relevant to your post, but I really don't like the "no talent at the end of the round" argument. Sure, it's more difficult to hit on those pics, but there's plenty of talent there.

Starting from 2015, the last time before this year we had a 1st rounder: Landon Collins, Devin Funchess, Jalen Collins, Bernardrick McKinney, and Eric Kendricks could have all been realistic targets for the 1st. Tyler Lockett, Tevin Coleman, Duke Johnson, Jordan Hicks, Tyler Kroft, and David Johnson realistic for the 2nd. Daryl Williams, Jamison Crowder with a few spots of Geneo Grissom in the 3rd. 4th was hit in both rounds. Grady Jarrett, Adrian Amos, Stefon Diggs, Jay Ajayi, Cedric Thompson all in the 5th round. Obviously, we didn't all know that they would be good players, but there's always talent - the team just has to find it.

In 2014, our 1st was a big bust. Others within a reasonable space were Bradley Roby, DeMarcus Lawrence, Joel Bitonio, Jordan Matthews, Lamarcus Joyner, Weston Richburg, Tuitt, Trent Murphy, Jernigan, D. Adams. 2nd was hit... I guess, but players like Christian Kirksey, Trent Murphy, Gabe Jackson were also near there. By our next pick, we could've gone with Martavis Bryant or Tre Boston. Players that we could've easily gotten if necessary later include Telvin Smith, Aaron Lynch, EJ Gaines, Duvernay-Tardif, Enunwa, etc. Again, not star talent everywhere, but we could've gotten key players despite our position.

2013, Instead of Dobson with our 2nd rder, we coulda gone Kelce, Lacy, Mathieu, Terron Armstead, Keenan Allen just a bit away. In the 4th, Alex Okafor, David Bakhtiari, Gerald Hodges were also there and taken within a dozen or so picks.

2016, rather than Cyrus Jones with the 2nd rounder, we coulda gone Byard, Ngakoue, Kenyan Drake, all within 15 picks later. Instead of Valentine, Justin Simmons, Joe Schobert were there. Sprinkle Tyreek Hill in there too.

Overall:
Cyrus Jones -> Yannick Ngakoue
Malcolm Brown -> Bernardick McKinney or Landon Collins
Jordan Richards -> Danielle Hunter or David Johnson
Geneo Grisson - Daryl Williams
Tre Jackson - Stefon Diggs or Grady Jarrett
Dominique Easley -> DeMarcus Lawrence
Bryan Stork -> Martavis Bryant
Cam Fleming -> Telvin Smith
Dobson -> Kelce or Allen or Mathieu

Pick 2 or 3 of those swaps and this team looks different. There is talent around the draft, even within a dozen spots of where we may make a bust draft pick.

I don't disagree with the information in your post, but rather the concept of those who criticize cherry picking with 20-20 hindsight. There where 30 or so other picks in the rounds you cherry picked, and you chose to highlight the one or two success stories turned out to be good players, without regard to the needs the Pats might have had or other factors that existed at the time that affected what they did.

The is the "low hanging fruit" method that critics of the draft have used for every year Bill has drafted. News Flash: BB has missed on some of his picks. But so do EVERY other team over and over again. Get over it.

 

[1960Pats]

Hot take. You are combining the first year, when they had no talent, with 2008, when they went 11-5 with Matt Cassel. That 2008 team was a damn good team. Not making the playoffs was a fluke because 11-5 almost always gets a team in.

Pretty obvious they have both played a huge role in the Patriots’ success.

I'm not saying that they both aren't important to the Pats' success, only that Brady is more important. The numbers don't lie.

 

[1960Pats]

But you are missing the point. You have to take the team that Belichick built that is the most successful ever and understand that Belichick was only responsible for messing them up so they didn’t win EVERY super bowl. If it wasn’t for Belichick some other random person would have made all the decision that built a team he was supposed to win the Sb with and then made other ones too that would have been perfect.
Belichick has just been lucky because someone handed him teams that were so good he should have won 9 SBs because you know there was so much talent on those teams that if the guy picking the talent didnt screw up be woikd have won it all almost twice as many times more than any one ever has.
It’s so obvious. Bill Belichick’s personell decisions screwed up the unstoppable team that bill Belichick put together.

Saying that Brady is more important to winning than Belichick is not the same as saying that Belichick sucks. That's total nonsense.