My Blueprint For the Pats

[captain stone]

Unless the Pats draft a swing tackle. I ould see tackle being a priority of guard in this draft. Kyle Long would fit nicely, and there are a number of other options. There's potentially a lot of depth at OT in the 2013 draft, depending on the juniors, of course. The fact that the Pats have used guys like Cannon and Zusevics for depth at tackle instead of at guard might be due to thinness at the position, rather than a projection of where those guys fit best.

Of the 2, Zusevics seems the better-fit for Tackle than Cannon, though his short (33") arms are
concerning, as is his ability to anchor vs power. But wouldn't Matt Kopa have made a more logical
candidate for promotion to the 53 as a Swing Tackle, and Zusevics a more logical candidate for
transfer to the IR list? Bill & Nick have really fecked-up the PS/Bottom-of-53 roster these last
couple of weeks.

 

[Sciz]

But wouldn't Matt Kopa have made a more logical
candidate for promotion to the 53 as a Swing Tackle, and Zusevics a more logical candidate for
transfer to the IR list?

I don't know. Did you see how each of them was doing in practice?

 

[ATippett56]

But wouldn't Matt Kopa have made a more logical candidate for promotion to the 53 as a Swing Tackle.

Matt Kopa was signed off the New England Patriots practice squad by the Philadelphia Eagles.

Matt Kopa - Philadelphia Eagles - 2012 Player Profile - Rotoworld.com

 

[Merril Hoge's Tie Knot]

That is your erroneous evaluation. But you keep telling yourself that you're right and everyone else is wrong.

Fact is that Cannon is on the bench because he is only other player with extended tackle experience currently. As for McDonald, he's not the only back-up center. Thomas is behind him.

And no, it doesn't kill the idea that Bill will use Cannon as a guard long term. He has to go with what the current situation dictates. They have no one behind Cannon as a back-up Tackle except maybe Zuscevics, who is raw and was just activated. You don't play your primary back-up as a starter, especially when one of your starting Tackles is continuing to battle back issues.

There’s nothing erroneous about it. I felt that way, Field Yates felt that way, Jeff Howe felt that way, PFF felt that way, and obviously Belichick and Scar felt that way. You don’t take your back-up center (McDonald) that’s under performing at guard out of the game, replace him with your back-up right tackle (Cannon), and then put your back-up center back in after 2 series unless your back-up right tackle (Cannon) really, really sucked and playing guard. That’s what happened.

Thank you for pointing out your inability to actually ASK a question. You didn't ask a question there. You made a statement.

Two people told you were wrong, and I gave you an opportunity to prove you were right. You declined by not posting the link or replying to the discussion at all.

Are you going to post the reputable link that says Cannon is 10% body fat or not?

How do you know that is what Belichick was referring to? You don't. It's your opinion. So, please. You aren't right. You're talking out your rear end with nothing to support your claims.

Haha stop. The irony is killing me!

Could you please name the other 350lb O-lineman that BB has drafted or signed? Oh wait. You can't. Because BB had never drafted or signed a 350 lb O-lineman prior to Cannon. So, you're basically making a judgement based on nothing.

BTW, I suggest you go back and watch the game again because Cannon didn't do as poorly as you suggested. But then, you clearly have something against the guy since you are willing to make judgements about him with nothing to support your claims.

I have nothing against Cannon, in fact I find him very easy to root for and have praised him for playing very well at tackle - something nobody else has done, but I’m not going to attempt to convince myself he’s a guard when all signs point to the contrary.

He is the heaviest offensive lineman, but I never said he wasn’t. He’s Just much closer to the average tackle than the average guard.

 

[Merril Hoge's Tie Knot]

True, but the Patriots are the NFL poster child for "system specific" scouting. They wouldn't take a player based on college success if they didn't believe he could fit their system. In spite of Cannon's measurables being way outside their norm, they saw something about him that they not only liked, but also believed fit.

When there is enough assessed value Bill will bend his usually strict specifications.

 

[nekromantique]

how often has cannon actually played guard in practice though? this was the first game ive seen him play at guard, and while he didnt look very good...he also didnt look particularly great in his first couple games at tackle (he improved greatly imo...looked meh against arizona...as did thomas).

i wouldnt expect this to be the last time we see cannon at guard...i also expect the next time to look alot better.

 

[captain stone]

Matt Kopa was signed off the New England Patriots practice squad by the Philadelphia Eagles.

Matt Kopa - Philadelphia Eagles - 2012 Player Profile - Rotoworld.com

I know; my point is that Bill should've promoted Kopa to the 53, allowed Zusevics to be moved
from PUP to IR, and subjected someone else (Hoo Man, Rivera, Martin) to waivers instead of Salas.
It's not like we were chock-full of WRs even before the losses of him & Edelman, both of whom
comprised our only depth at the position.

 

[ATippett56]

I know; my point is that Bill should've promoted Kopa to the 53, allowed Zusevics to be moved from PUP to IR, and subjected someone else (Hoo Man, Rivera, Martin) to waivers instead of Salas.

Maybe Dante and Bill felt that Zusevics has more upside than Kopa and was not worth placing on IR, thus stunting his long term development.

 

[ATippett56]

It's not like we were chock-full of WRs even before the losses of him & Edelman, both of whom comprised our only depth at the position.

As for Salas, this proves once again the New England Patriots lack of continued success acquiring inexpensive wide receiver talent. The first priority in unrestricted free agency for the New England Patriots in calendar year 2013 is to re-sign wide receiver Wes Welker and second priority to re-sign wide receiver Julian Edelman, regardless of offensive tackle Sebastian Vollmer's health, which incidentally isn't improving whatsoever.

 

[captain stone]

Maybe Dante and Bill felt that Zusevics has more upside than Kopa and was not worth placing on IR, thus stunting his long term development.

That has to be their reasoning, but waiving Salas as a consequence showed no reason whatsoever.
Our WR depth chart has gone from a pre-season Horn O' Plenty to a national laughingstock.

 

[manxman2601]

That has to be their reasoning, but waiving Salas as a consequence showed no reason whatsoever.
Our WR depth chart has gone from a pre-season Horn O' Plenty to a national laughingstock.

Maybe they didn't think Salas is very good. After all, no-one else does. The Rams traded him to us for a pick two years away. No-one picked him up the first time he was on waivers, we didn't give him a shot and the Phillies only picked him up for the PS.

It's not like teams are lining up to give Salas a shot.

 

[captain stone]

Philly claimed him, so he's on their 53, not their PS.

Maybe Salas isn't very good, based on Bill's observations & film study. Fair enough.
The point still remains, unfortunately, that we had literally nobody else ready to take his place,
and have no youth whatsoever in the pipeline, and haven't had any in the last 3 drafts.

Speaking of drafts, how good would Golden Tate look in the Flying Elvis?

 

[mayoclinic]

Speaking of drafts, how good would Golden Tate look in the Flying Elvis?

Tate's a good player, but his numbers haven't been earth shattering so far. 23,35 and 35 catches. Julian Edelman's rookie season was as good as Tate's first 2 years. I think Tate would be a solid player, but I'm not sure he's been all world by any means.

 

[Marqui]

Forget Golden Tate, how good would Josh Gordon look in the Flying Elvis?

 

[Sciz]

Tate's a good player, but his numbers haven't been earth shattering so far. 23,35 and 35 catches. Julian Edelman's rookie season was as good as Tate's first 2 years. I think Tate would be a solid player, but I'm not sure he's been all world by any means.

Yeah, put me in the "WTF is captain stone talking about" category. Tate has done nothing to show that he would have been worthy of the 53rd pick, which he still says would have been the right thing to do. I've grown emotionally attached to certain draft prospects over the years (we'll see two of them Monday night), but this is taking things way too far.

Forget Golden Tate, how good would Josh Gordon look in the Flying Elvis?

Would have cost the Pats' 2013 first to get him, so I think we can file him in the "out of reach" category.

 

[manxman2601]

Philly claimed him, so he's on their 53, not their PS.

Maybe Salas isn't very good, based on Bill's observations & film study. Fair enough.
The point still remains, unfortunately, that we had literally nobody else ready to take his place,
and have no youth whatsoever in the pipeline, and haven't had any in the last 3 drafts.

Speaking of drafts, how good would Golden Tate look in the Flying Elvis?

I'm afraid I disagree with you on the lack of receiving options. Even if the cupboard is a little bare at WR, hope fully we'll head in to the playoffs with Welker, Lloyd, Hernandez and Gronk ready to catch passes from Brady. A.N. Other receiver wouldn't get that much opportunity anyway. And if things become really desperate re-signing Deoin Branch is an option. Yes he's not tremendously productive, but his stats last year are almost as good as Golden Tate has the last two years.

I actually think they messed up last year in those silly and worthless FA signings. Drafting Marvin Jones would have been much more productive than signing three FA WR's and then releasing them before the season started. But what's done is done. Hopefully BB will finally realise that drafting a WR is a necessity. You are right that we need to replenish the pot with some youth.

 

[mayoclinic]

This is an revision of my latest mock in Ye Olde Mock Draft Thread, along with some thoughts there and on the main board. I thought I'd post it for fun.

Priorities:

1. Fix the secondary
2. A stud LDE opposite Chandler Jones
3. Youth/depth at OL
4. Speed at WR to stretch the field
5. Depth at DT/penetrating DT/successor to Vince Wilfork
6. Depth at H-back/"move TE" to spell/complement Aaron Hernandez
7. An eventual true successor to TB

The Next 6 Months:

1. Trade Patrick Chung to Tampa Bay for CB Aqib Talib; alternatively, the Pats might trade a 2014 draft pick for Talib and use Chung as a hybrid S/LB this year
2. Move Devin McCourty to FS and team him with Tavon Wilson, with Steve Gregory/Nate Ebner as backups
3. Re-sign Sebastian Vollmer
4. Franchise/extend Wes Welker
5. Sign Aqib Talib to a long term deal if he works out, or sign UFA CB Dominique Rodgers-Cromartie (Philadelphia). Brent Grimes (Atlanta) is a possibility, but he's coming off an Achilles injury, and we've already been burned with Jonathan Fanene and injured UFAs. If the Pats are unable to trade for Talib by the deadline, then they can just go after one of these guys during FA in 2013
6. Re-sign Myron Pryor and Danny Woodhead
7. Let go: Ron Brace, Deion Branch, Julian Edelman, Kyle Arrington

Time for a bump again. As the Pats head into the home stretch 10-3 and looking to wrap up a bye and possibly the #1 seed for the 3rd straight year and make another SB run, this team is starting to look dominant. Last night's win over the Texans was obviously the high point of the season. I'm not going to address the draft, but just the priorites and short term plan from the OP:

Priorities:

1. Fix the secondary

The Next 6 Months:

1. Trade Patrick Chung to Tampa Bay for CB Aqib Talib; alternatively, the Pats might trade a 2014 draft pick for Talib and use Chung as a hybrid S/LB this year
2. Move Devin McCourty to FS and team him with Tavon Wilson, with Steve Gregory/Nate Ebner as backups
5. Sign Aqib Talib to a long term deal if he works out, or sign UFA CB Dominique Rodgers-Cromartie (Philadelphia). Brent Grimes (Atlanta) is a possibility, but he's coming off an Achilles injury, and we've already been burned with Jonathan Fanene and injured UFAs. If the Pats are unable to trade for Talib by the deadline, then they can just go after one of these guys during FA in 2013
7. Kyle Arrington

The secondary, and the pass defense, are well on their way to being fixed. The acquisition of Aqib Talib, the emergence of Alfonzo Dennard, and the move of Devin McCourty to FS have transformed the secondary, and allowed the defense to play a different brand of football than we have seen since the old days. It seems clear that at least some of the frustrations of BBDB and the zone defense stemmed from a lack of confidence in the defensive personnel. These changes should be made permanent: keep McCourty at FS, and extend Talib. I missed the boat on Kyle Arrington: he has been rejuvenated since moving to the slot, and should be extended at reasonable cost. Hopefuly Ras-I Dowling will be able to develop as a 3rd outside CB. I wouldn't mind picking up a FA FS such as Kenny Phillips, but Steve Gregory is playing quite well as a second cover safety now that the assignments are becoming clear. I don't see the need to spend a day 1 or 2 draft pick on a DB at this point.

Priorities:

2. A stud LDE opposite Chandler Jones
5. Depth at DT/penetrating DT/successor to Vince Wilfork

The Next 6 Months:

6. Re-sign Myron Pryor
7. Let go: Ron Brace

The DL played an outstanding game last night. The run defense re-emerged wit the return of Chandler Jones. Vince Wilfork has a dominant beast. The level of aggressiveness of the front 7 has improved significantly since the secondary has improved. But I still see these priorities as unchanged. I should have included a coverage LB, though that seems to be improving as well, and Dont'a Hightower is coming along quite nicely. DT is somewhat thin, and Ron Brace was a healthy scratch last night. I don't see him back. Myron Pryor will be under contract next year, but whether he can play is another matter. This is definitely an area to address, IMHO.

Priorities:

3. Youth/depth at OL

The Next 6 Months:

3. Re-sign Sebastian Vollmer

Still a priority IMHO. The OL has been stout this season despite injuries, and held its own last night against an elite Texans' DL. Sebastian Vollmer did OK against the unbelievable JJ Watt, and certainly better than he did against Miami. His health needs to be monitored, but he should be a priority re-signing. Donald Thomas and Ryan Wendell have been nice surprises, but there is definitely a need for a swing tackle and youth at guard.

Priorities:

4. Speed at WR to stretch the field
6. Depth at H-back/"move TE" to spell/complement Aaron Hernandez

The Next 6 Months:

4. Franchise/extend Wes Welker
6. Danny Woodhead
7. Let go: Julian Edelman

For everyone worried that we had nothing at WR, we had plenty of options last night to overwhelm the Texans. Re-signing WW should be a priority - the man has plenty left for 2-3 more years. He's like Brady - he's too much of a competitor to not be in peak shape for several more years. I was wrong on that one. I was also wrong about Julian Edelman - despite being injury prone, he's a valuable weapon, and needs to be re-signed. Woodhead is valuable, and should be kept. More depth and playmakers is always good.

Priorities:

7. An eventual true successor to TB

Not for a while, I hope. Brady hasn't lost anything. He's having an MVP season again. The FO needs to look at "beyond 2014". I don't think the guy we saw last night is walking away after 2 more years. An extension would be nice.

One thought that I mentioned elsewhere, just a wild idea: Matt Cassel will probably be cut by KC and could be available at reasonable cost in KC. IDK if Ryan Mallett will have any trade value, but many teams are QB desperate, and the draft is very weak. If Brady is likely to stay beyond 2014, trade Mallett sooner rather than later and bring back Cassel to back up TB. Then draft someone like AJ McCarron down the road. Just a thought.

Those are my brief thoughts on the priorities/short term plans from the OP, as we head towards the playoffs. We'll see how these change over the next 2 months.

 

[Merril Hoge's Tie Knot]

I agree with you on a lot of that, but not Kyle Arrington, and not the WR situation. I can't get back on the Arrington train after a couple good games. He was too awful the first 10-12 weeks. He might be back anyway because of special teams and a lack of offers elsewhere, but he's not a player I would rely on.

This may be semantics, but IMO Welker is not a WR, he's a slot receiver. Just like I insist Hernandez is not a tight end, I insist Welker is not a WR. So out wide I surely think there is a need there.

 

[mayoclinic]

I agree with you on a lot of that, but not Kyle Arrington, and not the WR situation. I can't get back on the Arrington train after a couple good games. He was too awful the first 10-12 weeks. He might be back anyway because of special teams and a lack of offers elsewhere, but he's not a player I would rely on.

Regarding Arrington, I haven't gone so far as to jump on that bandwagon, but I would probably re-sign him if it's at reasonable cost, as opposed to letting him walk, which was my plan before. He's played well enough in the slot, he's good supporting the run, he's a good STer, and there's value to continuity. If he doesn't want to re-sign for low money let him go, but I don't see anyone paying him a lot.

This may be semantics, but IMO Welker is not a WR, he's a slot receiver. Just like I insist Hernandez is not a tight end, I insist Welker is not a WR. So out wide I surely think there is a need there.

I identified a WR to stretch the field as one of my needs (#4 under priorities). That was separate from re-signing Welker. That hasn't changed.

 

[Merril Hoge's Tie Knot]

Regarding Arrington, I haven't gone so far as to jump on that bandwagon, but I would probably re-sign him if it's at reasonable cost, as opposed to letting him walk, which was my plan before. He's played well enough in the slot, he's good supporting the run, he's a good STer, and there's value to continuity. If he doesn't want to re-sign for low money let him go, but I don't see anyone paying him a lot.

That's fine. I would do that. I would give him the opportunity to be a pleasant surprise, but I wouldn't rely on him too much. I'd still want to aquire other options if the value makes sense. I really like Devin Smith of Wisconsin.

I identified a WR to stretch the field as one of my needs (#4 under priorities). That was separate from re-signing Welker. That hasn't changed.

I guess I focused too much on the commentary from today. I thought this

For everyone worried that we had nothing at WR, we had plenty of options last night to overwhelm the Texans.

meant WR wasn't a big concern.