My Blueprint for the Offense

[BelichickFan]

Why do I state the bleedin' obvious? Because it's hard to project giving a TE drafted in the first or second round meaningful snaps when there's so many other offensive targets vying for the same.

As I said elsewhere - while working through the LaFell signing - I think they're going back to the 3 WR/1 TE offense of 2007.

I know Moss isn't walking through the door - but we didn't have Gronk back then.

Moss - Dobson
Welker - Edelman
Gaffney - LaFell
Watson - Gronk
-----
Maroney - Ridley
Faulk - Vereen

Not saying it's "as good" or "the same" but I think this is what we should expect, less 2 TE and more 3 WR. We did a lot of that last year too but ran out of WR. We have some depth at WR, KT can back up LaFell, Amendola can back up Edelman.

We don't HAVE to be a 2 TE offense. We were because we had them and O'Brien was a big TE guy, I remember reading that when Josh left. Of course Josh could coach the 2 TE offense but he isn't married to it, it wasn't even his offense.

We need a more viable backup to Gronk than HooMan, though. Someone who can provide a solid block/catch combo if Gronk is out.

 

[manxman2601]

I think last year soured BB on drafting WRs and expecting them to contribute early:

"I'm not saying they can't do it, but in some cases they haven't done it," Patriots coach Bill Belichick told the assembled media at the league meetings in Orlando. "You're teaching a play a concept that, 'OK, we call a play and then within that play 11 people know what to do.' In a lot of cases that's not what they're doing now.

"I'd say that's a relatively new thing for me. I haven't seen that, but it's come up in recent, two-three, years. Particularly this year, I don't want to say more prevalent, but more common. Five years ago I never heard of that. I'm not saying that anymore."

Simplistic college offenses have created new hurdles for NFL teams | masslive.com

quickly hurries to take Kelvin Benjamin and Brandon Coleman off his big board

 

[manxman2601]

As I said elsewhere - while working through the LaFell signing - I think they're going back to the 3 WR/1 TE offense of 2007.

I know Moss isn't walking through the door - but we didn't have Gronk back then.

Moss - Dobson
Welker - Edelman
Gaffney - LaFell
Watson - Gronk
-----
Maroney - Ridley
Faulk - Vereen

Not saying it's "as good" or "the same" but I think this is what we should expect. We have some depth at WR, KT can back up LaFell, Amendola can back up Edelman.

We don't HAVE to be a 2 TE offense. We were because we had them and O'Brien was a big TE guy, I remember reading that when Josh left. Of course Josh could coach the 2 TE offense but he isn't married to it, it wasn't even his offense.

We need a more viable backup to Gronk than HooMan, though. Someone who can provide a solid block/catch combo if Gronk is out.

Agreed. I wondered the same about McDaniels wanting to resort to more spread concepts.

 

[varjao]

I think you are overrating the calibre of the day three prospects. For me it's Fiedorowicz and not a lot else. Blake Annen and Jake Murphy are interesting and Hoskins and Jensen are passable but I'm not seeing much better than Sudfeld on day three and as we know, that didn't go well. Put it this way, if we're waiting until day three to draft a TE, only Fiedorowicz is an upgrade to the position (and that's only because he has more upside than Hooman).

I Strongly agree.

We've seen the best offense we put in the Brady years with 2 TE's and a slot receiver, give him weapons in the middle and he will shred defenses. On the other hand last year our offense was putrid without TE's who can be receiving threats.

It's a vital piece of our offense, we should not overlook that.

 

[mayoclinic]

I Strongly agree.

We've seen the best offense we put in the Brady years with 2 TE's and a slot receiver, give him weapons in the middle and he will shred defenses. On the other hand last year our offense was putrid without TE's who can be receiving threats.

It's a vital piece of our offense, we should not overlook that.

Who's overlooking it? It's a big piece of the puzzle. But it's only a piece - though maybe not to you, since your entire plan is to draft 2 big receiving TEs.

 

[patchick]

I think you are overrating the calibre of the day three prospects. For me it's Fiedorowicz and not a lot else. Blake Annen and Jake Murphy are interesting and Hoskins and Jensen are passable but I'm not seeing much better than Sudfeld on day three and as we know, that didn't go well. Put it this way, if we're waiting until day three to draft a TE, only Fiedorowicz is an upgrade to the position (and that's only because he has more upside than Hooman).

As I said elsewhere - while working through the LaFell signing - I think they're going back to the 3 WR/1 TE offense of 2007.
...

IMO there's a lot of truth and a major strategic decision in these two comments. IF you're envisioning a WR-centric offense with 2-TE sets retiring to the background, then day 3 offers some good complementary role players to fill out the TE/h-back positions.

But if you want multi-TE sets to return to being a significant weapon, there are only a handful of prospects in this draft who are likely to make that possible. All are likely to be gone by the end of day 2.

Personally, I'm inclined toward making the investment in a day-2 TE. The addition of a Niklas or Fiedorowicz could open up a ton of possibilities for the offense.

 

[mayoclinic]

IMO there's a lot of truth and a major strategic decision in these two comments. IF you're envisioning a WR-centric offense with 2-TE sets retiring to the background, then day 3 offers some good complementary role players to fill out the TE/h-back positions.

But if you want multi-TE sets to return to being a significant weapon, there are only a handful of prospects in this draft who are likely to make that possible. All are likely to be gone by the end of day 2.

That's not really clear to me. It all depends on how you value the prospects.

Personally, I'm inclined toward making the investment in a day-2 TE. The addition of a Niklas or Fiedorowicz could open up a ton of possibilities for the offense.

Niklas, yes. Well worth a day 2 pick in the 62 range or later.

I don't have Fiedorowicz rated very highly. I like the day 3 guys I've listed more than Fiedorowicz. Again, it all depends on how you value the prospects.

 

[BelichickFan]

Personally, I'm inclined toward making the investment in a day-2 TE. The addition of a Niklas or Fiedorowicz could open up a ton of possibilities for the offense.

If the right TE falls into out laps like what happened with Gronk and AH, then great. But I won't be desperately looking for them to trade up to ensure they get the chance to overpay for the last viable TE.

 

[mayoclinic]

If the right TE falls into out laps like what happened with Gronk and AH, then great. But I won't be desperately looking for them to trade up to ensure they get the chance to overpay for the last viable TE.

Exactly. Opportunity is one thing. Reaching is another.

 

[patchick]

If the right TE falls into out laps like what happened with Gronk and AH, then great. But I won't be desperately looking for them to trade up to ensure they get the chance to overpay for the last viable TE.

If we're following the blueprint of how Gronkowski and Hernandez "fell into our laps," I guess that will mean a trade up in round 2 for Seferian-Jenkins -- a talented and imposing physical specimen coming off injury -- and picking up a speedy character risk like Leonard or Lyerla on day 3?

 

[manxman2601]

I am absolutely all for them taking ASJ in the first round. I rate him quite a bit higher than Amaro and Niklas. However, if that's too rich for BB then I hope they wait for Fiedorowicz who is significantly better than any other day 3 TE prospect in my view. The thing with Fiedorowicz is that, while there's probably not a lot of upside, what he can do is be productive from day one. He's the best blocker and has some of the best hands of the TE prospects (ASJ's are better in my opinion). He might not do much, but he can provide that big body in the middle of the field that we were sorely lacking last year and he can be a top notch blocker, and all from day one. He would be what we were hoping Jake Ballard was going to be last year.

 

[manxman2601]

Exactly. Opportunity is one thing. Reaching is another.

Who said anything about reaching?

 

[BelichickFan]

If we're following the blueprint of how Gronkowski and Hernandez "fell into our laps," I guess that will mean a trade up in round 2 for Seferian-Jenkins -- a talented and imposing physical specimen coming off injury -- and picking up a speedy character risk like Leonard or Lyerla on day 3?

Well we only traded up two spots for Gronk. If we do that for ASJ or Niklas, fine. But I wouldn't be trading our 2,3,5 to get to, say, #40 to get one.

As for Lyerla, from everything I've read I assume he'll be off our board but if the right "character concern" guy is there in the 4th round when he otherwise would have been a high 2nd round pick then, sure, I'll take that falling into our lap.

 

[mayoclinic]

Who said anything about reaching?

I am. There's been a ton of reaching for TE's IMO. I think that Fiedorowicz as a day 2 prospect is a huge reach; I think that ASJ and Amaro at 29 would be huge reaches. All of those have been proposed by numerous people (both on the board and in the media) who are of the "TE is our biggest need" and "we need to draft a TE day 1 or 2" point of view.

You think I overvalue the day 3 TE prospects. I think others overvalue the day 1-2 TE prospects.

 

[manxman2601]

I am. There's been a ton of reaching for TE's IMO. I think that Fiedorowicz as a day 2 prospect is a huge reach; I think that ASJ and Amaro at 29 would be huge reaches. All of those have been proposed by numerous people (both on the board and in the media) who are of the "TE is our biggest need" and "we need to draft a TE day 1 or 2" point of view.

You think I overvalue the day 3 TE prospects. I think others overvalue the day 1-2 TE prospects.

Including me. I stick to my evaluation of ASJ and Fiedorowicz. Neither is a reach.

 

[patchick]

I am absolutely all for them taking ASJ in the first round. I rate him quite a bit higher than Amaro and Niklas. However, if that's too rich for BB then I hope they wait for Fiedorowicz who is significantly better than any other day 3 TE prospect in my view. The thing with Fiedorowicz is that, while there's probably not a lot of upside, what he can do is be productive from day one. He's the best blocker and has some of the best hands of the TE prospects (ASJ's are better in my opinion). He might not do much, but he can provide that big body in the middle of the field that we were sorely lacking last year and he can be a top notch blocker, and all from day one. He would be what we were hoping Jake Ballard was going to be last year.

I'm warming to Fiedorowicz for exactly the reasons you mention: technically sound, serious NFL frame, and ready to contribute. He'll never be a Rob Gronkowski -- who is? -- but he could pick up Gronk's underappreciated blocking role and he'll catch what's thrown to him. I also suspect he may have a little more upside than most see, because of how Iowa used him (and didn't use him).

 

[BobDigital]

Well when you talk about value I think it is best to be specific as possible so everyone knows where you stand. I will talk about how much I value a guy like ASJ who is my fav 2nd round prospect.

I think ASJ's value is right around pick 40. After that point he starts to gain value. Though in the AVERAGE draft he is probably about 35 and a border line first round.

His talent to me is first round level but character concerns (which I feel are overblown) push him out of that round. If he was a boy scout he would probably be pick 25.

He is particularly valuable to us because he is probably the best red zone finisher in this draft (bold statement I know but I feel confident saying it).

If he learns and stays out of trouble and taps his potential he WILL be better than Ebron. I love Ebron and he is as close to a sure thing as you get but ASJ's game is just more complete if he gets it together.

If ASJ falls below pick 45 I think we should trade up to get him.

 

[manxman2601]

I'm warming to Fiedorowicz for exactly the reasons you mention: technically sound, serious NFL frame, and ready to contribute. He'll never be a Rob Gronkowski -- who is? -- but he could pick up Gronk's underappreciated blocking role and he'll catch what's thrown to him. I also suspect he may have a little more upside than most see, because of how Iowa used him (and didn't use him).

Right. And as BB says the draft is about building a roster and not accumulating talent. Fiedorowicz obviously fits within that philosophy.

 

[mayoclinic]

I'm warming to Fiedorowicz for exactly the reasons you mention: technically sound, serious NFL frame, and ready to contribute. He'll never be a Rob Gronkowski -- who is? -- but he could pick up Gronk's underappreciated blocking role and he'll catch what's thrown to him. I also suspect he may have a little more upside than most see, because of how Iowa used him (and didn't use him).

I don't see Fiedorowicz as much more than Matt Mulligan. Sorry. I keep trying to see it, but I just don't. I understand others disagree.

 

[mayoclinic]

Well when you talk about value I think it is best to be specific as possible so everyone knows where you stand. I will talk about how much I value a guy like ASJ who is my fav 2nd round prospect.

I think ASJ's value is right around pick 40. After that point he starts to gain value. Though in the AVERAGE draft he is probably about 35 and a border line first round.

His talent to me is first round level but character concerns (which I feel are overblown) push him out of that round. If he was a boy scout he would probably be pick 25.

He is particularly valuable to us because he is probably the best red zone finisher in this draft (bold statement I know but I feel confident saying it).

If he learns and stays out of trouble and taps his potential he WILL be better than Ebron. I love Ebron and he is as close to a sure thing as you get but ASJ's game is just more complete if he gets it together.

If ASJ falls below pick 45 I think we should trade up to get him.

I think this is reasonable. I think ASJ's value is around 40 or so. 29 wouldn't be a huge reach, I just think there are other guys I would take first. Trading up if he slips to 45 or later would be just fine with me, depending on the scenario (I haven't included it because I'm already trading up for Aaron Donald).