the taildragger
Third String But Playing on Special Teams
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- Nov 30, 2005
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it's hard not to start with QBs.
Most people are finally on to Vick and Favre (the former standard bearers). Vick isn't even the best pro quarterback on his own team.
The question was raised, who would you take over Peyton (not counting you know who) -- I'd definitely take Palmer (he's not afraid of a rush), Hasselbeck (he's not afraid of a rush), Delhomme (not afraid of a rush)...hell, if I were starting a team right now, I'd be tempted to take Simms, Schaub and Rivers over Peyton -- keep in mind I'm trying to set up my team to defeat quality defenses here, not set regular season records -- the decision would get difficult after that, I'd probably take Peyton over Trent Green or McNabb (so that puts him 4th or 5th on my list which shows you what I think about stats and passer ratings).
As much success as Roethlisberger has had, it's time to stop comparing him to you know who...when he first becomes comparable to bradshaw we can have that discussion.
A small part of me sympathizes with Peyton and the Colts...There was a Pasquarelli piece the other day quoting some of the players and they're clearly going through some trauma. The Colts hype comes from Fantasy Football.
Many of the colts want to embrace the expectations, but privately they probably wish they could just be the underdog and not have to deal with the burden of high expectations. I can't ever remember a team that was consistently favored to win which had as little postseason success...they talk like the NY Yankees -- like anything but winning is unacceptable -- problem is the colts haven't yet won anything. They can thank Fantasy Leagues and ESPN for all those unearned expectations.
The one thing the Pats have been blessed with is low expectations...as overrated as the Colts have been, it took the Pats 2 out of 3 Super Bowls before anyone took them seriously.
before I forget, I'd like to also add Dhani Jones to the discussion.
If I had to throw in an ex-Patriot I guess I'd concur with Ty Law (I keep hearing this $10M figure tossed around)...it's really not so much Ty as it is the position that's overrated...but he does need to lose some weight.
Of course there are no current Pats who are overrated
...actually I'm just not going there. Actually there are plenty of overrated ex-pats...ashworth, givens (I like him but he's not worth that $$$)
If we can add overrated coaches I'll take Eric Mangini (80 players in the NFL are older than he is)...nothing against young coaches, Shula and Madden made it to Canton, I just don't see EM in that company.
a very intelligent and free thinking poster posed the question of whether Peyton has already qualified for the Hall of Fame -- seems like everyone has him in, but on what basis? -- the greatest statistical single season of all time?...he wouldn't get my vote, but then again, Dan Fouts wouldn't have either. Look, I don't care if Peyton never gets a ring, but even if he breaks all the passing records, he still has to at least perform well in the postseason. Until he stops melting in January you can't start blaming the rest of his teammates. He should be able to win with that team -- they're ranked in the top 5 of the power polls every year; since 1999 they've had the best win/loss record in the NFL; they just sent a million starters to the pro bowl...there are no excuses for being 3-6 with such a collection of talent. Even conceding that he isn't the only player on his team who comes up small, does not excuse him from his own struggles. TB has been more productive and efficient in the postseason with a far inferior offense.
I'm in the minority on this...most people see a lot of TDs and yards and they vote a guy in...I REALIZE PEYTON IS A LOCK FOR THE HALL...but when you consider a guy for the Hall you can start with stats but you really have to pose more questions because you're comparing him against players of different eras and systems...otherwise we'd just let computers enshrine players.
You send players to the Hall WHO:
1. elevate their teams above mediocrity rather than those who make a very talented team seem ordinary (this applies above all to the QB position).
2. can not be continually stopped by schemes, and who dominate on a consistent basis.
3. have proven to be one of the very top players at their position in history.
Under my standards, Peyton will have to significantly elevate his game in the postseason...but the reality is the Hall is becoming a Disney/ESPN production and there's no way they keep out Peyton Manning.
Most people are finally on to Vick and Favre (the former standard bearers). Vick isn't even the best pro quarterback on his own team.
The question was raised, who would you take over Peyton (not counting you know who) -- I'd definitely take Palmer (he's not afraid of a rush), Hasselbeck (he's not afraid of a rush), Delhomme (not afraid of a rush)...hell, if I were starting a team right now, I'd be tempted to take Simms, Schaub and Rivers over Peyton -- keep in mind I'm trying to set up my team to defeat quality defenses here, not set regular season records -- the decision would get difficult after that, I'd probably take Peyton over Trent Green or McNabb (so that puts him 4th or 5th on my list which shows you what I think about stats and passer ratings).
As much success as Roethlisberger has had, it's time to stop comparing him to you know who...when he first becomes comparable to bradshaw we can have that discussion.
A small part of me sympathizes with Peyton and the Colts...There was a Pasquarelli piece the other day quoting some of the players and they're clearly going through some trauma. The Colts hype comes from Fantasy Football.
Many of the colts want to embrace the expectations, but privately they probably wish they could just be the underdog and not have to deal with the burden of high expectations. I can't ever remember a team that was consistently favored to win which had as little postseason success...they talk like the NY Yankees -- like anything but winning is unacceptable -- problem is the colts haven't yet won anything. They can thank Fantasy Leagues and ESPN for all those unearned expectations.
The one thing the Pats have been blessed with is low expectations...as overrated as the Colts have been, it took the Pats 2 out of 3 Super Bowls before anyone took them seriously.
before I forget, I'd like to also add Dhani Jones to the discussion.
If I had to throw in an ex-Patriot I guess I'd concur with Ty Law (I keep hearing this $10M figure tossed around)...it's really not so much Ty as it is the position that's overrated...but he does need to lose some weight.
Of course there are no current Pats who are overrated
...actually I'm just not going there. Actually there are plenty of overrated ex-pats...ashworth, givens (I like him but he's not worth that $$$)If we can add overrated coaches I'll take Eric Mangini (80 players in the NFL are older than he is)...nothing against young coaches, Shula and Madden made it to Canton, I just don't see EM in that company.
a very intelligent and free thinking poster posed the question of whether Peyton has already qualified for the Hall of Fame -- seems like everyone has him in, but on what basis? -- the greatest statistical single season of all time?...he wouldn't get my vote, but then again, Dan Fouts wouldn't have either. Look, I don't care if Peyton never gets a ring, but even if he breaks all the passing records, he still has to at least perform well in the postseason. Until he stops melting in January you can't start blaming the rest of his teammates. He should be able to win with that team -- they're ranked in the top 5 of the power polls every year; since 1999 they've had the best win/loss record in the NFL; they just sent a million starters to the pro bowl...there are no excuses for being 3-6 with such a collection of talent. Even conceding that he isn't the only player on his team who comes up small, does not excuse him from his own struggles. TB has been more productive and efficient in the postseason with a far inferior offense.
I'm in the minority on this...most people see a lot of TDs and yards and they vote a guy in...I REALIZE PEYTON IS A LOCK FOR THE HALL...but when you consider a guy for the Hall you can start with stats but you really have to pose more questions because you're comparing him against players of different eras and systems...otherwise we'd just let computers enshrine players.
You send players to the Hall WHO:
1. elevate their teams above mediocrity rather than those who make a very talented team seem ordinary (this applies above all to the QB position).
2. can not be continually stopped by schemes, and who dominate on a consistent basis.
3. have proven to be one of the very top players at their position in history.
Under my standards, Peyton will have to significantly elevate his game in the postseason...but the reality is the Hall is becoming a Disney/ESPN production and there's no way they keep out Peyton Manning.
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