More Red Sox Incompetence

[mtbykr]

I think the biggest mistake was not signing ocab and going after rent-a-wreck. ocab ending up signing at 8/4 but we could have had him for 6/4. The only reason he got that much was becuase we gave rent such a huge deal. Theo has since come out and said this was a mistake, and we are still paying for it. Let's not forget that we traded him for marte,(who we turned for coco) but are having to pay a good portion of his contract.

ocab plays almost as good as D as gonzo (who we better keep) and has a better bat. he also showed that he can play well in boston--which is something that rent proved can make a big difference

 

[Johnny Mac]

Biggest mistake? With all the pitching problems, I don't see how you can think that's been the biggest mistake. They had the best offense in baseball last year, and they had the second best offense in the league this year until all the injuries hit. Cabrera was miserable at the plate last year. Worse than Renteria. Wouldn't surprise me if he had suffered the same fate, too.

 

[patriotspride]

the redsox have really got me depressed.and im not even talking about this year .there pitching is old [wakefield schill timlin ]or its very sick[lester]and there is not much of a free agent crop this year .where are they going to get good starting pitching ?i also have this sick feeling the stinkees will be the ones hoisting the trophy this year and that makes me want to puke.

 

[PatsWorldChamps]

I don't think hes done all that terrible. Want me to make a nice long list of good moves he has done like the list of bad moves earlier in the thread?

Sure, Mrs. Epstein... title it "Look what the Blind Squirrel found"

 

[Foley]

Sure, Mrs. Epstein... title it "Look what the Blind Squirrel found"

So when he makes a good move its a fluke, and when something doesn't work out perfectly hes 100% to blame? That much irrational hatred is just as bad as irrational adoration. And you already called me Mrs. Epstein in another thread... if you want to keep on reusing an insult at least make it a good one.

And heres a nice list for you:

-Ortiz: Picked up for nothing.
-Arroyo: Picked up for nothing.
-Schilling Trade: Traded for junk.
-Cabrera/Mientkewicz Trade: Managed to get rid of an oft-injured malcontent and turn him into vital pieces of the team.
-Kim Trade: Traded an overrated 3B for a guy who single-handedly got the team into the postseason in 2003.
-Roberts Trade: Roberts himself wasn’t that great, but considering he was had for nothing and had an important contribution, I'd say it was a nice trade.
-Vazquez/Pauley/Payton Trade: Apparently some think this was bad, but trading an oft-injured part time player for some decent pieces is a good trade in my book.
-Cora Trade: Not a huge or important trade, but turned a bad utility guy into a very good utility guy.
-Not trading for Javier Vazquez after 2003: If making a move that everyone thinks is great but turns out to suck is a bad move, then not making a move that everyone thinks is great but turns out to suck is a good move.
-Not signing Jose Contreras after 2002: Same reasoning as above
-Putting Manny on waivers: I know conventional wisdom is that this was bad, but it was a very good strategic move that could have done one of two things:
1. If no one picks him up it shows Manny that he is untradeable. If no team would take him for free, obviously no team would want to want to give something up for him in a trade (this is what they expected to happen).
2. If a team did actually pick him up they would have freed up a whole lot of salary which they could have used to sign Tejada and Guerrero (Tejada and Guerrero make an average of 26 million per year combine. Manny makes an average of 21 million alone).
-Hiring Ron Jackson: Upon his hiring the team went on to lead baseball in offense from 2003-2005. Was in the top in every category this season before half the team went down with injury.
-Minors: Turned a system considered one of the worst in baseball into a system considered one of the best.
-Other signings or trades that the team got something good out of: Bellhorn, Foulke, Millar, Loretta, Mueller, Walker, Timlin, Reese, Gonzalez, Graffanino. I’m sure there are others, but those are just off the top of my head.

 

[PatsWorldChamps]

mrs epstein, give me, or any moderate to serious fan, 17% more money than any of the 29 other teams not named yankees (100% more than many), and we would produce more than Blind Squirrel has produced... if there were a salary cap (level playing field), the detroits, minnesotas, oaklands, and floridas of the league would have your son looking for work.

 

[Foley]

Wow you must be amazing. Are you saying that you'd be able to prevent someone from getting cancer? and another from injuring his bicep? and another from needing knee surgery? and another from having patellar tendinitis? and two others from having other knee injuries? and another from straining a lat muscle? and another from having serious heart palpitations? and another from straining their oblique muscle? and another from breaking a finger? and another from needing wrist surgery? and another from suffering a sholder strain? and another from having a stress fracture? and another from nearly dislocating his shoulder? and every other more minor injury that I'm forgetting?

For the better part of 2 months close to half of that payroll was on the DL, or completely inneffective and should have been on the DL. Find me one other team that has had that many serious injuries to so many key players after the trading deadline where nothing could be done to replace them.

The Red Sox payroll is closer to that of the Pittsburgh Pirates (4th lowest in baseball) than that of the Yankees. Its not as though they have an obscenely large payroll in comparison to every other team.

And once the GM of the Detroits, Minnesotas, Oaklands, and Floridas of the league manage to win 95+ games and make it into the playoffs 3 out of 4 years then you'd have a point. One poor season due to copious numbers of injuries does not make the guy a blind squirrel unless you are an arrogant crybaby with a sense of entitlement.

 

[PatsWorldChamps]

The Red Sox payroll is closer to that of the Pittsburgh Pirates (4th lowest in baseball) than that of the Yankees. Its not as though they have an obscenely large payroll in comparison to every other team.

Yes, they actually DO have an obscenely large payroll compared to everyone else. they have 20% more than 4 teams, 33% more than the next 6, and 50-100% more than everyone else. Im a fan, so im glad we have that advantage... however, i do expect a lot more, given the huge advantage we have. the gap between the sox and the next (3rd) highest payroll is bigger than the gap between any two teams below the sox.

Your son needs to worry less about being a beantown celeb, and a little more about doing his job.

 

[PonyExpress]

It's morally reprehensible that Epstein supporters hide behind the Lester tragedy as a way of absolving their favorite son of blame for his atrocious decision making. The collapse of this team extends far beyond the shock of that tragedy. Shoddy management, chemistry, attitude, personnel decisions combined to sink this ship. The Lester tragedy is a sadly convenient excuse to which Epstein's cynical supporters can point for blanket absolution, when in fact his mismanagement extends far beyond that misfortune. The difference between this team and the Milwaukee Brewers is dangerously thin, the talent drain tangible, the trust and confidence going forward non-existent. The new Frank Kashen is among us, and this minor celebrity, so narcissistic in his inane worries about marginal fame, will cease to be the toast of teenage girls unless he reverses course pronto.

 

[Foley]

Yes, they actually DO have an obscenely large payroll compared to everyone else. they have 20% more than 4 teams, 33% more than the next 6, and 50-100% more than everyone else. Im a fan, so im glad we have that advantage... however, i do expect a lot more, given the huge advantage we have. the gap between the sox and the next (3rd) highest payroll is bigger than the gap between any two teams below the sox.

Bravo for again neglecting to respond to practically everything I post. You're not helping your point by arguing nothing.

But the fact is the gap between the Red Sox and Yankees is bigger than the gap between the Red Sox and all but three teams. A $17M gap between payroll 2 and 3 is not obscene considering the gap between payroll 1 and 2 is $75M.

And I expect a lot too, but I can't expect the team to keep on winning when over half the team goes down with injuries and its too late to make trades to remidy them. If a majority of the team were healthy the entire year and they still managed to suck then I'd be more willing to blame Theo, but I can't blame him for so many people getting injured after the trade deadline and there being no way to replace players with anyone greater than Javy Lopez.

It's morally reprehensible that Epstein supporters hide behind the Lester tragedy as a way of absolving their favorite son of blame for his atrocious decision making. The collapse of this team extends far beyond the shock of that tragedy. Shoddy management, chemistry, attitude, personnel decisions combined to sink this ship. The Lester tragedy is a sadly convenient excuse to which Epstein's cynical supporters can point for blanket absolution, when in fact his mismanagement extends far beyond that misfortune. The difference between this team and the Milwaukee Brewers is dangerously thin, the talent drain tangible, the trust and confidence going forward non-existent. The new Frank Kashen is among us, and this minor celebrity, so narcissistic in his inane worries about marginal fame, will cease to be the toast of teenage girls unless he reverses course pronto.

Cashen. With a C.

How am I hiding behind the Lester tragedy? Lester going down, with the addition to half the team going down is what caused the season to fall apart. Lester is just one person in a long, long list of guys to go down and I'm hardly trying to claim Lester alone was the reason for the poor second half. And considering that you are clearly a more capable mind than Theo and the rest of the Red Sox FO, what moves would you have done to fix this season?

 

[RS]

the redsox have really got me depressed.and im not even talking about this year .there pitching is old [wakefield schill timlin ]or its very sick[lester]and there is not much of a free agent crop this year .where are they going to get good starting pitching ?i also have this sick feeling the stinkees will be the ones hoisting the trophy this year and that makes me want to puke.

What a ****y. LMFAO!!

 

[patriotspride]

im a ****y. LMFAO!!

yes you are