Welcome to PatsFans.com

Mel Kiper Jr. 2005 Draft Grade on the Pats

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by Pats_2007, Jan 6, 2008.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Pats_2007

    Pats_2007 Rookie

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2007
    Messages:
    82
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0

    Mel Kiper Jr. right after the 2005 NFL Draft

    "New England Patriots Grade: C
    Guard Logan Mankins was a reach in the first round but the Patriots obviously like his size and nastiness, and he will help fill the void left by Joe Andruzzi's departure via free agency. Ellis Hobbs has good size but not enough skill to be more than a nickelback, and safety James Sanders was a teammate of Mankins at Fresno State and both were helped by the relationship between Patriots coach Bill Belichik and Fresno State coach Pat Hill. Tackle Nick Kaczur could play guard as well but came off the board a little early and Matt Cassel is a big project at quarterback."

    :wha:
    Last edited: Jan 6, 2008
  2. DarrylS

    DarrylS PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    41,768
    Likes Received:
    180
    Ratings:
    +362 / 11 / -27

    says much about Kyper and his lack of understanding of BB/SP.. the Mankins and Sanders choice have little to do with being "friends" with Pat Hill, and more to do with trusting the judgement of a fellow coach.. if these two guys played for another team I suspect the results would be pretty much the same.
    Last edited: Jan 6, 2008
  3. Fencer

    Fencer Rookie

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2006
    Messages:
    7,866
    Likes Received:
    45
    Ratings:
    +129 / 2 / -15

    #12 Jersey

    Isn't it closer to being the other way around??
  4. TomBradyWoot

    TomBradyWoot Rookie

    Joined:
    May 6, 2006
    Messages:
    399
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0

    Mankins has obviously been a beast, but other than that I think Kiper was right on.
  5. upstater1

    upstater1 Rookie

    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2005
    Messages:
    13,028
    Likes Received:
    29
    Ratings:
    +43 / 4 / -3

    He was?

    Kaczur was a 4th rounder. How is that early? Any time you can find a starter in the 4th round, that's good.

    And, as has been pointed out above, he was wrong on Hobbs, as though he never really scouted him.
  6. NEPatriot

    NEPatriot Banned

    Joined:
    Dec 14, 2004
    Messages:
    7,839
    Likes Received:
    11
    Ratings:
    +11 / 0 / -0

    We basically got four starters out of the draft and a quality bak up/situatational guy in Wright. Sanders has really come on. Getting a pro bowler goes along way. Sanders continues to improve. Kaczur is decent. Hobbs continues to be up and down, however the talent is basically there. It's more a matter of consistency. I'd give the Pats a B.
  7. Canada's #1 Pats Fan

    Canada's #1 Pats Fan Rookie

    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2006
    Messages:
    1,394
    Likes Received:
    1
    Ratings:
    +1 / 0 / -0

    Kaczur was selected in the 3rd round.
  8. patsox23

    patsox23 Rookie

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    7,397
    Likes Received:
    9
    Ratings:
    +17 / 1 / -0

    Have you watched James Sanders this year? Do you know Kaczur not only starts, but also starts at tackle? Are you aware that Hobbs is a starter corner and NOT a nickel CB?
  9. Lampshade

    Lampshade Rookie

    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2007
    Messages:
    1,268
    Likes Received:
    1
    Ratings:
    +1 / 0 / -0

    Sounds like a generic appraisal of any CB that gets drafted outside of round 1.
  10. Boston Boxer

    Boston Boxer U.S. Air Force Retired PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2004
    Messages:
    2,465
    Likes Received:
    17
    Ratings:
    +51 / 4 / -1

    #75 Jersey

    yes he was very right. the thing is Kiper make his prediction before they ever played a down in the NFL...we have the luxury of having seen them play now for a few years, so it is easy for us to grade them now. give kiper a break. I wonder what he said about the Brady pick. I sure it was not that he would end up being the best QB of all time. It is a little hard to predict the future, but Kiper is the best at coming close IMO
    Last edited: Jan 6, 2008
  11. Remix 6

    Remix 6 Rookie

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2006
    Messages:
    7,780
    Likes Received:
    3
    Ratings:
    +3 / 0 / -0

    has enough size? Hes listed at 5"9 but hes 5"8 and some odds..hes playing fine as #2 CB

    so skill: hes starting for a championship team. size? hes small..he doesnt have enough size.
  12. Lampshade

    Lampshade Rookie

    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2007
    Messages:
    1,268
    Likes Received:
    1
    Ratings:
    +1 / 0 / -0

    Yep, I was saying it seemed like Kiper had fallen into not describing the player, and instead described any non 1st round CB.

    If you look at his draft grades of any CB in rounds 2 to 7 you'll see either "has size but lacks the skill or speed to be more than a nickel", or alternatively "lacks the size to be anything more than a nickel".

    Same with his descriptions of college tackles ("lacks footspeed for the position", or "lacks size for the position").

    I think he picks them at random.
  13. Handel

    Handel Rookie

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2005
    Messages:
    650
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0

    3rd.

    12345678910
  14. AzPatsFan

    AzPatsFan On the Roster

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2004
    Messages:
    6,212
    Likes Received:
    102
    Ratings:
    +238 / 22 / -10

    I think he was correct about Kaczur, when he said he would be a very good Guard. If the Pats didn't have Steven Neal and a fairly good backup in Russ Hochstein, that is where he would play best, and start. IMO Kaczur is playing out of position at ORT. O'C is a good ORT for a running club like the Steelers or Jags, but he can't handle the pass rushers adequately, and that is why Kaczur is playing.

    The enigma to me is sacrificial lamb, Wesley Britt. He could be the ideal ORT having both the size for run blocking, and the feet for a good pass blocking ROT. Yet ironically, he is too valuable to put there, since the Pats need a good back up for the LOT to protect the jewel at QB. Matt Light is only an above average LOT, stripping constant help-out chipping for O'C were he a fulltime ROT, as Matt sometimes needs chipping help too.

    If Britt went to ROT, and Kaczur moved inside to RG, there would be nobody to back up Light. It would be very disruptive, requiring a revision of the line in at least three positions, if Light got dinged. Plus then you would have no place to play Neal, a tremendous pulling and screening Guard; and what do you do with Russ Hochstein, never mind adequate G, Billy Yates?

    Juggling all the balls, the Coaches have made their decisions, Wes Britt draws the short straw, and stay a reserve at LOT, and a second reserve at ROT and TE, but it's best for the Offensive line as a whole, and the Team.

    Does anyone else concur?
  15. PantsB

    PantsB Rookie

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2007
    Messages:
    263
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0

    Every player listed other than Cassel is a starter on one of the greatest teams of all time three years later. Mankins is an All-Pro (or he will be this year). Hobbs is a solid starter (not a nickel), Kaczur is an average RT, and Sanders is turning into a very good safety.
  16. makewayhomer

    makewayhomer Rookie

    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2007
    Messages:
    1,030
    Likes Received:
    1
    Ratings:
    +1 / 0 / -0

    2 of the pats biggest weaknesses are Kaczur and Hobbs (RT and #2 CB). Cassell hasnt proven anything. obv he was wrong about Mankins and probably Sanders as well.

    cue fanboys saying they are 16-0 they have no weaknesses everything is 100% fine under no scenario could they possibly lose every player they have is the best at their position in the nfl
    Last edited: Jan 6, 2008
  17. DaBruinz

    DaBruinz Pats, B's, Sox PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2005
    Messages:
    24,309
    Likes Received:
    196
    Ratings:
    +364 / 24 / -48

    #50 Jersey

    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/14268667/

    Mankins got snubbed for the All-Pro voting. Hutchinson from Minnesota and Shane Andrews from Philadelphia got the selections.

    Personally, I don't see how Vinatieri got the All-Pro selection at Kicker. He didn't make a single kick LONGER than 39 yards. Crosby from the Packers should have been the ALL-PRO selection this year. Especially with how good he was on kick-offs as well as how good he was from long distances.
  18. Ochmed Jones

    Ochmed Jones Rookie

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2004
    Messages:
    5,756
    Likes Received:
    10
    Ratings:
    +15 / 2 / -0

    #12 Jersey

    I don't see Kazcur as a natural road grader, so I can't imagine him excelling at OG, but I think he can play OG well enough.

    The thing with Kiper is his inability to understand what a team's concepts and find players that fit that concept. Instead he grades them based on pure talent regardless of how the player would perform in a team's system.

    He was fired as a Baltimore scout because he could not mentally understand the types of players that Baltimore needed that would work well in their scheme and find those players.

    Another huge weakness of Kiper's is his total lack of understanding of how personalities fit together in a locker room. He grades one dimensionally, based mostly on film and the occasional police reports. Players are not like that, never have and never will.

    That's why I am so glad that we have a coach that will interview a player and do thorough background checks on players before he drafts them. Last year, he interviewed Merriweather 3 times prior to the draft.
  19. DaBruinz

    DaBruinz Pats, B's, Sox PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2005
    Messages:
    24,309
    Likes Received:
    196
    Ratings:
    +364 / 24 / -48

    #50 Jersey

    I'd rather just cue the idiots who sit there and claim people to be Fanboys because the idiots sit there and go out of their way to exaggerate what other people say just to make themselves look good.

    Something to keep in mind. This is the 1st year that the Pats haven't had to START 4 different tackles due to injury. Kaczur has been average.

    As for Hobbs, he's a solid #2 CB who is still only 24 years old. He's gotten better each year in the league. I think he will continue to be a solid #2. The problem that creates is that the Pats will need someone to step up and be a #1. Randall Gay is solid behind Hobbs, but not a #1. What will be interesting is how Mike Richardson does next year. He was getting a ton of playing time against Randy Moss in practice and, by all accounts, more than holding his own. That, right there, says ALOT about his potential.
  20. upstater1

    upstater1 Rookie

    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2005
    Messages:
    13,028
    Likes Received:
    29
    Ratings:
    +43 / 4 / -3

    Just to be clear about people that are saying Kiper is right on Hobbs and Kaczur.

    1. He said Hobbs has good size. WRONG!!!!!!!!!

    2. He said Kaczur was picked too early. Kaczur was the 100th pick in a draft of 32 teams, a supplemental pick, practically in between the 3rd and 4th round.

    If you think that's too early for a guy that's starting on a solid offensive line, then your expectations for the draft are, well, optimistic, to put it kindly.

    By the way, this comes from a Kiper backer. I do find that he knows college ball pretty well.
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page

unset ($sidebar_block_show); ?>