McGinest: "Pats don't take care of their players that are still productive"

[Deus Irae]

Re: McGinest: "Pats don't take care of thier players that are still productive"

.) The Patriots don't spend to the cap every year, although they are usually very close.

2.) "Spending to the cap" is an accounting gimmick. Actual dollars spent is what matters.

3.) New England is top 5 in revenue, but was only #10 in actual dollars spent from 2004-2008.

That doesn't mean that the Patriots aren't spending any money, and it doesn't mean that the team's cheap, but this myth about how much money they actually spend is just that. In that 2004-2008 year period, they spent $150 million dollars less than the highest spending team.

People can keep bashing players every time one dares to speak out. That won't change the reality of the situation.

 

[emoney_33]

Re: McGinest: "Pats don't take care of thier players that are still productive"

.) The Patriots don't spend to the cap every year, although they are usually very close.

2.) "Spending to the cap" is an accounting gimmick. Actual dollars spent is what matters.

3.) New England is top 5 in revenue, but was only #10 in actual dollars spent from 2004-2008.

That doesn't mean that the Patriots aren't spending any money, and it doesn't mean that the team's cheap, but this myth about how much money they actually spend is just that. In that 2004-2008 year period, they spent $150 million dollars less than the highest spending team.

People can keep bashing players every time one dares to speak out. That won't change the reality of the situation.

You are wrong, you've been wrong, and you ignore people who try to enlighten you. Shutup with your agenda driven repetitively contrarian argumentative bull****, thanks

 

[RobertWeathers]

Re: McGinest: "Pats don't take care of thier players that are still productive"

maybe you're right. but if they wanted the best head coach available like polian said they would have gone after Shanahan or Cowher. I mean the colts basically let manning coach the offense and coyer the defense. a guy like caldwell would not need to be paid much. all he would do is make tough decisions like whehter to run the ball three straight times before the end of the half in a super bowl.

Shanny and Cowher want complete command of an org. They most certainly would not have gotten that in Indy w/ Napolian.

At any rate I know what you are thinking. The notion of picking a cheap HC is more applicable to a team like Tampa and Denver that is already paying millions for coaches who aren't even on the sidelines. However, it is known that Irsay needed to sell off some assets to dish out part of Mannings signing bonus. Who knows but i think the Caldwell hiring was legit.

 

[SHOWTIME15]

Re: McGinest: "Pats don't take care of thier players that are still productive"

Shanny and Cowher want complete command of an org. They most certainly would not have gotten that in Indy w/ Napolian.

At any rate I know what you are thinking. The notion of picking a cheap HC is more applicable to a team like Tampa and Denver that is already paying millions for coaches who aren't even on the sidelines. However, it is known that Irsay needed to sell off some assets to dish out part of Mannings signing bonus. Who knows but i think the Caldwell hiring was legit.

like i said, maybe you are right and the colts may have wanted to give a guy like caldwell that the players respect a shot at a HC job. but the difference between what a Shanahan or Cowher would cost (5 million) and a guy like Caldwell ($500,000 to $1 million) is a lot.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Re: McGinest: "Pats don't take care of thier players that are still productive"

like i said, maybe you are right and the colts may have wanted to give a guy like caldwell that the players respect a shot at a HC job. but the difference between what a Shanahan or Cowher would cost (5 million) and a guy like Caldwell ($500,000 to $1 million) is a lot.

Of course. They are established, winning NFL coaches. That's why they'd command more coin.

 

[RayClay]

Re: McGinest: "Pats don't take care of thier players that are still productive"

Willie was given a golden parachute in Cleveland mostly for leadership. He didn't produce there and wasn't NFL caliber anymore and would have been cut.

He should really thank Romeo and BB for letting him down with some dignity, instead he keeps embarrassing himself. Willie's apparently the only one who doesn't know he was given a gift contract he never played up to in Cleveland. It's kind of sad to see him sniffing around telling local reporters he's ready to re-sign and help out.

Kind of reminds me of Ali after one too many unretirements getting pounded by Larry Holmes and Holmes just pleading with the ref to stop it so he didn't have to hit his hero anymore.

Some people don't know when it's time to go in professional sports.

 

[HarkDawg]

Re: McGinest: "Pats don't take care of thier players that are still productive"

It is not about being cheap....... it's about the Patriot reputation of being successful.

 

[SHOWTIME15]

Re: McGinest: "Pats don't take care of thier players that are still productive"

Of course. They are established, winning NFL coaches. That's why they'd command more coin.

and i think that by not getting a strong head coach like cowher or shanahan really cost them this year. too much of the focus was on peyton and he folded when it mattered the most. in fact, i think weak coaching from the colts is the main reason why they have not won more than 1 super bowl. i am speaking mostly of their coordinators like tom moore, etc.

 

[Sean Pa Patriot]

Re: McGinest: "Pats don't take care of thier players that are still productive"

Mcginnist forgets he was on the expansion list , in 02 and he also re did his deal many times , because of his sucky play in the late 90's and early 00's... He was on the sidelines more than the field... the older he got the better he played, but was not a great locker room guy many people make him out to be... Mcginnist also should be reminded he was resigned and given a fat contract when that could of went to Curtis Martin....Insted he got the contract, martin went to the jets...

 

[TriplecHamp]

Re: McGinest: "Pats don't take care of thier players that are still productive"

Never, bitterness is bitterness... it doesn't turn.

Seriously though you can't expect players to understand the strict business side and separate their personal worth from the team building goals. It's stupid to "take care of your players". Then you end up with a roster of old and overpaid players while you are severely limited with what you can do to improve.

So what, any team that wins is supposed to just throw the boat at the top players of that time even when they get old or are overvalued? So win once and then thank the players while keeping the team restricted and in poor shape?

All the guys you listed weren't worth what they made when they left. Overpaying for these guys to "thank" them would be in direct contradiction with the Patriots mission statement. Not to mention the effect it would have with bargaining chips as other players played well enough to earn money.

Guys like Bruschi are unique and extremely extremely rare.

When I spoke of bitterness turning to truth I meant, How many players are you going to call bitter until you finally realize that maybe there is some truth to what they are saying. If over the past 5 years, 3 players who deserved to be payed on Defense are Wilfork, Seymour, and Samuel. Next season only wilfork has a chance to be on the team and even hes not signed right now. All of these players were or are in their prime when their contract situations came up and weve failed to bring two of them back and now possibly a third.

 

[Kontradiction]

Re: McGinest: "Pats don't take care of thier players that are still productive"

Mcginnist forgets he was on the expansion list , in 02 and he also re did his deal many times , because of his sucky play in the late 90's and early 00's... He was on the sidelines more than the field... the older he got the better he played, but was not a great locker room guy many people make him out to be... Mcginnist also should be reminded he was resigned and given a fat contract when that could of went to Curtis Martin....Insted he got the contract, martin went to the jets...

I might be the only one happy about that. I, for one, enjoyed watching McGinest hit Manning more than I would have enjoyed watching Martin running wild over the Colts defense.

 

[patsfan-1982]

Re: McGinest: "Pats don't take care of thier players that are still productive"

i think fans and players. still don't fully understand the NFL and how it works its a business. if you do what i need you to do for this much money then i will find someone who will. BB dose not care what fans and players think. he is not going to pay you if u can't get it done anymore. BB job is to put the best team he can out on the field. if the players don't like it do bad cause it is he's job on the line. player can be cut and move on to the next team. it's not that easy for a coach to get a new job. BB had to wait 5 years to become a HC again.

 

[emoney_33]

Re: McGinest: "Pats don't take care of thier players that are still productive"

When I spoke of bitterness turning to truth I meant, How many players are you going to call bitter until you finally realize that maybe there is some truth to what they are saying. If over the past 5 years, 3 players who deserved to be payed on Defense are Wilfork, Seymour, and Samuel. Next season only wilfork has a chance to be on the team and even hes not signed right now. All of these players were or are in their prime when their contract situations came up and weve failed to bring two of them back and now possibly a third.

I know what you meant, I was just being facetious. It doesn't matter how many former players say things, that's the point I was trying to make. None of them are in position to view the situation without personal bias and with an entire roster building, short and longterm perspective.

As for your 3 players...

Samuel did NOT deserve to be paid.
Seymour WAS paid, does he deserve a lifetime extension?
Wilfork WILL BE paid.

Honestly, with your idea of who needs to be paid and how much, we'd have no room to build a competitive team. We'd turn into the redskins. I'm thankful we have intelligent people making the decisions and not emotionally-driven nostalgic fans.

 

[TriplecHamp]

Re: McGinest: "Pats don't take care of thier players that are still productive"

Colts Salary Cap - Colts Cap

Miguel's UNOFFICIAL 2009 Patriots Salary Cap Information Page

Its not a matter of how much money the Pats spend its the way they do it, the Colts have been much smarter with their money even with "busts" like Bob Sanders. Just one example, We all know how great the Colts o-line has been and our o-line hasn't been too shabby either. Look at the money spent on the Colts o-line and our o-line, look at the Colts secondary and our secondary.

 

[TriplecHamp]

Re: McGinest: "Pats don't take care of thier players that are still productive"

I know what you meant, I was just being facetious. It doesn't matter how many former players say things, that's the point I was trying to make. None of them are in position to view the situation without personal bias and with an entire roster building, short and longterm perspective.

As for your 3 players...

Samuel did NOT deserve to be paid.
Seymour WAS paid, does he deserve a lifetime extension?
Wilfork WILL BE paid.

Honestly, with your idea of who needs to be paid and how much, we'd have no room to build a competitive team. We'd turn into the redskins. I'm thankful we have intelligent people making the decisions and not emotionally-driven nostalgic fans.

Your right, we should get rid of our pro-bolwers and build through people like Wilhite and Mike Wright (who I think is solid but hes no Seymour). Its not like Samuel got payed (with the eagles) how stupid of them to pay him like a pro-bowl corner, We got rid of Seymour supposedly to open up money for Wilfork who has yet to get a long term deal done.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Re: McGinest: "Pats don't take care of thier players that are still productive"

Colts Salary Cap - Colts Cap

Miguel's UNOFFICIAL 2009 Patriots Salary Cap Information Page

Its not a matter of how much money the Pats spend its the way they do it, the Colts have been much smarter with their money even with "busts" like Bob Sanders. Just one example, We all know how great the Colts o-line has been and our o-line hasn't been too shabby either. Look at the money spent on the Colts o-line and our o-line, look at the Colts secondary and our secondary.

Never really sat down and looked at the Colts cap structure all spelled out like this. As you say the only non-producers counting more than $4m to the cap are Sanders & Harrison. Nevertheless, it is impressive how efficient they are with their cash outlay and maximizing their ROI from a cap standpoint.

Didn't realize that they were paying Kelvin Hayden so much. He didn't do squat this year. may add him to the "bust" list.

 

[TriplecHamp]

Re: McGinest: "Pats don't take care of thier players that are still productive"

i think fans and players. still don't fully understand the NFL and how it works its a business. if you do what i need you to do for this much money then i will find someone who will. BB dose not care what fans and players think. he is not going to pay you if u can't get it done anymore. BB job is to put the best team he can out on the field. if the players don't like it do bad cause it is he's job on the line. player can be cut and move on to the next team. it's not that easy for a coach to get a new job. BB had to wait 5 years to become a HC again.

Last time I checked, Samuel and Seymour could still get it done and explain to me how getting rid of Sey mad this team better this year. I was actually a fan of the move if it meant we could resign Wilfork but we havnt done that yet. BB's job is to not put the best team he can out on the field but to put together a team that can win with the pieces in place.

 

[Kontradiction]

Re: McGinest: "Pats don't take care of thier players that are still productive"

Last time I checked, Samuel and Seymour could still get it done and explain to me how getting rid of Sey mad this team better this year. I was actually a fan of the move if it meant we could resign Wilfork but we havnt done that yet. BB's job is to not put the best team he can out on the field but to put together a team that can win with the pieces in place.

You're easier to impress than I am. I was a fan of the move if we had a viable replacement to come in for Seymour this year (nope) AND could re-sign Wilfork (not yet... though I am hearing from some guys on Patsfans.com that it WILL get done).

 

[woolster22]

Re: McGinest: "Pats don't take care of thier players that are still productive"

I might be the only one happy about that. I, for one, enjoyed watching McGinest hit Manning more than I would have enjoyed watching Martin running wild over the Colts defense.

In hind-sight I'm with ya there. Although I remember being pissed off at Parcells for "stealing" Martin from us back then. But I was also young n dumb. Either way, I don't think we get that first superbowl without Willie-Mac. I remember aa certain goal-line stand where he came like a bat outta hell around the edge to make the stop...

 

[Kontradiction]

Re: McGinest: "Pats don't take care of thier players that are still productive"

In hind-sight I'm with ya there. Although I remember being pissed off at Parcells for "stealing" Martin from us back then. But I was also young n dumb. Either way, I don't think we get that first superbowl without Willie-Mac. I remember aa certain goal-line stand where he came like a bat outta hell around the edge to make the stop...

That was in 2003.