McGinest: "Pats don't take care of their players that are still productive"

[RobertWeathers]

Re: McGinest: "Pats don't take care of thier players that are still productive"

His statement being correct all depends on what happens with Wilfork, IMO. Wilfork is in the prime of his career and is one of the best NT's in the game. On top of that, we let Seymour go supposedly to help work out a deal with the "most important player on the defensive side of the ball and second most important player on the team". Failure to hammer out a long-term deal will only give weight to his statement.

Define, "Take care of"? Overpay? What if some nut owner gives VW Haynesworth money. Does that mean the Pats didn't take care of him?

If the Pats low-ball VW, you have a point.

Based on a rumor, (3yrs 29m) sounds like the Pats are trying to take care of VW.

 

[Kontradiction]

Re: McGinest: "Pats don't take care of thier players that are still productive"

Define, "Take care of"? Overpay? What if some nut owner gives VW Haynesworth money. Does that mean the Pats didn't take care of him?

If the Pats low-ball VW, you have a point.

Based on a rumor, (3yrs 29m) sounds like the Pats are trying to take care of VW.

So you think Wilfork only has three years left in him?

 

[DaBruinz]

Re: McGinest: "Pats don't take care of thier players that are still productive"

I think Asante has been a big loss....look at his year last year for the Eagles,He was definately missed the past 2 years.

No. Asante hasn't been missed. I haven't missed his primadonna attitude or his smiling at missing game winning interceptions or his going for the big hit instead of wrapping up.

As for what Asante has done for the Eagles.. Well, There is the whole locker room issue that his signing caused.. That forced the Eagles to trade Lito Sheppard to the Jets.. And it's the same contract that upset Brian Dawkins and Brian Westbrook. Guys who were actual LEADERS on that team.

Asante isn't a Top 5 CB in this league. And we'll just have to agree to disagree.

 

[Patriot Missile]

Re: McGinest: "Pats don't take care of thier players that are still productive"

His statement being correct all depends on what happens with Wilfork, IMO. Wilfork is in the prime of his career and is one of the best NT's in the game. On top of that, we let Seymour go supposedly to help work out a deal with the "most important player on the defensive side of the ball and second most important player on the team". Failure to hammer out a long-term deal will only give weight to his statement.

It does weigh heavily, however if the Pats do "hammer" out a contract with Wilfork as you say are these same people going to label them cheap if they can't get Mankins done?

Here's a question for anyone that knows? Can you franchise a restricted free agent? If yes than it would be much easier to pay top 5 guard salary then DT pay.

 

[PATRIOTSFANINPA]

Re: McGinest: "Pats don't take care of thier players that are still productive"

*ROFLMAO* BS.. Willie is just playing the hating game. If what he said were true, then the wouldn't have paid guys like Warren, Brady, Light, Koppen, etc.

Willie is just pissed that they realized he was done and cut him. He didn't do SH!T with the Browns but stink it up.

To be defensive for Willie,he did have some pretty bad back problems once he got to Cleveland which definately hurt his production which was already diminishing at that time.

I don't think the Pats let him go too early,in fact I think the team let him go at the right time because he was a little like Vrabel was before the 2009 trade to KC ..getting slower and slower and gradually losing his great pass rushing skills.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Re: McGinest: "Pats don't take care of thier players that are still productive"

So you think Wilfork only has three years left in him?

Look at it this way, Kontra.

He'll be 32 at the end of the proposed deal.

They shipped out Sey and he'll be 31 in Oct. Clearly they didn't think he'd be worth big dollars at 31 let alone 32.

Pats don't want to pay someone whos 33 a $8m-a-year salary AND take a cap-hit if they need to cut him.

Will Wilfork play at ages 33, 34 and 35? Most likely. Will he play at a $10m a year level. Highly doubtful.

Pats are playing the percentages and managing the risk.

We don't know if Vince wants 4yrs or 5 yrs. In theory, that'll be more up-front guaranteed cash. Thats Haynesworth terrritory now.

If what is being reported is fact (23m guaranteed), I don't blame their approach w/ VW.

 

[DaBruinz]

Re: McGinest: "Pats don't take care of thier players that are still productive"

So you think Wilfork only has three years left in him?

How do you get that the "rumor" of a 3 year - 29million contract is Robertweathers thinking that VW only has 3 years left?

Personally, I think that Wilfork has 5 years left... but the thing is that the Pats may not be willing to commit long term guaranteed money. Some teams (Titans/Colts) are.

The Pats can give Wilfork that contract, and then, after the new CBA is settled, they could give him an extension if they felt he'd be around longer.

But, I'm sorry. McGinest is talking out his arse. The Pats have more than taken care of players. Including, but not limited to Tedy Bruschi and Robert Edwards.

 

[Kontradiction]

Re: McGinest: "Pats don't take care of thier players that are still productive"

How do you get that the "rumor" of a 3 year - 29million contract is Robertweathers thinking that VW only has 3 years left?

Personally, I think that Wilfork has 5 years left... but the thing is that the Pats may not be willing to commit long term guaranteed money. Some teams (Titans/Colts) are.

The Pats can give Wilfork that contract, and then, after the new CBA is settled, they could give him an extension if they felt he'd be around longer.

But, I'm sorry. McGinest is talking out his arse. The Pats have more than taken care of players. Including, but not limited to Tedy Bruschi and Robert Edwards.

I thought it was pretty obvious that I was asking him a question. Personally, I think Wilfork should get a four to five year contract, considering his age.

 

[Jackson 2]

Re: McGinest: "Pats don't take care of thier players that are still productive"

Willie's pissed off he was not re-signed. We get that. He's a disgruntled (former) employee. Just the next whine-bag, and I love Willie.Next????

 

[RobertWeathers]

Re: McGinest: "Pats don't take care of thier players that are still productive"

I thought it was pretty obvious that I was asking him a question. Personally, I think Wilfork should get a four to five year contract, considering his age.

It's all good. See my post. We all agree that VW does have more than 3 years left. The question is what will his level of production be.

I thought Theo Epstein had a good way of stating a GMs logic on big contracts. Essentially he said that if you pay a player a 4 yr 40m deal and in years 1 and 2 he plays like hes a 15m a year player but in years 3 and 4 he plays at a 7m a year output, they team is a + $4m for the deal.

Not sure I agree 100% but I understand his thinking.

 

[WelshPat]

Re: McGinest: "Pats don't take care of thier players that are still productive"

No. Asante hasn't been missed. I haven't missed his primadonna attitude or his smiling at missing game winning interceptions or his going for the big hit instead of wrapping up.

As for what Asante has done for the Eagles.. Well, There is the whole locker room issue that his signing caused.. That forced the Eagles to trade Lito Sheppard to the Jets.. And it's the same contract that upset Brian Dawkins and Brian Westbrook. Guys who were actual LEADERS on that team.

Asante isn't a Top 5 CB in this league. And we'll just have to agree to disagree.

They didn't want to keep Sheppard, so signing Samuel had nothing to do with him. Sheppard is crappy and got benched.

They wanted to keep Dawkins, but the Broncos offered him an INSANE contract. Not much you can do about that.

Listen, hate on Samuel all you like, but he is better than any CB on this team currently, and to anyone that said they couldn't afford him, the Eagles didn't give him crazy money, and that money that could have been used to keep a guy thats good for atleast 7 turnovers a year went on Thomas, who was a huge bust.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Re: McGinest: "Pats don't take care of thier players that are still productive"

They didn't want to keep Sheppard, so signing Samuel had nothing to do with him. Sheppard is crappy and got benched.

They wanted to keep Dawkins, but the Broncos offered him an INSANE contract. Not much you can do about that.

Listen, hate on Samuel all you like, but he is better than any CB on this team currently, and to anyone that said they couldn't afford him, the Eagles didn't give him crazy money, and that money that could have been used to keep a guy thats good for atleast 7 turnovers a year went on Thomas, who was a huge bust.

Based on stops and comp%, I'd argue that Bodden had just as good, if not better year last year but overall certainly Asante has had a much better career.

 

[JackBauer]

Re: McGinest: "Pats don't take care of thier players that are still productive"

Based on stops and comp%, I'd argue that Bodden had just as good, if not better year last year but overall certainly Asante has had a much better career.

Which is certainly easier to accomplish when the two teams you play for are the Patriots and Eagles, as opposed to the Browns and Lions

 

[mcsully]

Re: McGinest: "Pats don't take care of thier players that are still productive"

Really sounds like Sour Grapes.. McGinnest has wanted to come back here the past year or so.. pats have moved on, just like most teams and he hasn' realized it yet.. He's a great player but to understand the overall scheme of running an organization, um I'll leave it to the people with experience..

Which gets me to

pat kirwan was on yesterday talking about how the Eagles and pats are the best at making the hard choice and letting players go. In today's NFL, teams can't pay for what a player has done but what the player will do.. They are hedging their bets..


Bottom line, what player left the Pats and was a dominate player at his position? You could throw in maybe Samuel and adam vinatieri.. But we replaced Adam V that very year with a younger and cheaper player.. Samuel is really the only player we let go that has produced at a high level year in and year out.. In hindsight, I'm sure they would have wanted to keep him..

 

[DaBruinz]

Re: McGinest: "Pats don't take care of thier players that are still productive"

They didn't want to keep Sheppard, so signing Samuel had nothing to do with him. Sheppard is crappy and got benched.

They wanted to keep Dawkins, but the Broncos offered him an INSANE contract. Not much you can do about that.

Listen, hate on Samuel all you like, but he is better than any CB on this team currently, and to anyone that said they couldn't afford him, the Eagles didn't give him crazy money, and that money that could have been used to keep a guy thats good for atleast 7 turnovers a year went on Thomas, who was a huge bust.

I have news for you, Sheppard wanted out as soon as Asante was signed. Dawkins wanted out as well. Asante's contract upset BOTH of them AND Sheldon Brown. You don't have to believe me. Go ask Eagle's fans. They'll tell you.. It's pretty common knowledge. So, while the Eagles "didn't want to keep Sheppard", it most certainly had a lot to do with Samuel. As for the Broncos, as I said, Dawkins didn't want to stay after the contract that Philly gave Samuel. He felt that it was a sign of disrespect that he and Westbrook, Brown and Sheppard weren't being taken care of.. And this was back when Samuel was signed. Not the 2009 free agency period.

 

[PATSNUTme]

Re: McGinest: "Pats don't take care of thier players that are still productive"

The Patriots seem to pay to the cap every year. So Willie must think that they pay their non-productive players and not their productive players.

We can all look to AD as paying a high price for a non-productive player. But at the time the Patriots signed him, everyone was in awe.

 

[BradyFTW!]

Re: McGinest "Pats don't take care of thier players that are still productive"

This is BS. They offer what is fair for the team and ask the player to take a little off their top value to stay.

Tom Brady, Dan Koppen, Matt Light, Richard Seymour, Ty Warren, Kevin Faulk were all resigned to deals that were drafted by us. I dont want to hear **** about Branch, Givens, Graham or ******* Law either. They offered good but not great contracts to all of the mentioned above players with Givens and Graham having a tough time between choosing where to go before inevitably taking the cash.

And please spare me the Asante talk as well dude got paid well more than we could have offered. Im glad some of you want to be hypocrits and sign a guy to millions of dollars yet still want Vince and then Peppers etc. You people need to open your eyes and make decisions for yourselves. You sign Asante a couple of years ago and your not keeping Vince this year, because you wont have the opportunity too.

Agreed. Pats have a value for each of their guys, and if someone else is willing to pay more, they let him walk. If McGinest wants to say that the Pats weren't willing to pay what he was worth, then that's fine, but the stark reality (and the following few years bore it out) is that the Browns substantially overpaid for him, just like the Broncos overpaid for Graham, the Chiefs overpaid for Law, the Colts overpaid for Vinatieri, and the Eagles overpaid for Samuel. Give any of those teams a chance to go back and wish away those contracts, and all but maybe the Eagles would do it.

So, if by "not taking care of their players", McGinest means "they don't match when another team overpays", then he's right. But in each player's case, they offered a contract for what they felt the player was worth. Can't ask a team to do any more than that, and given where the regimes that gave those contracts to McGinest, Law, and Graham are today, I think the point speaks for itself.

 

[BradyFTW!]

Re: McGinest: "Pats don't take care of thier players that are still productive"

I have news for you, Sheppard wanted out as soon as Asante was signed. Dawkins wanted out as well. Asante's contract upset BOTH of them AND Sheldon Brown. You don't have to believe me. Go ask Eagle's fans. They'll tell you.. It's pretty common knowledge. So, while the Eagles "didn't want to keep Sheppard", it most certainly had a lot to do with Samuel. As for the Broncos, as I said, Dawkins didn't want to stay after the contract that Philly gave Samuel. He felt that it was a sign of disrespect that he and Westbrook, Brown and Sheppard weren't being taken care of.. And this was back when Samuel was signed. Not the 2009 free agency period.

Sheppard was on the outs with the Eagles long before Asante was a FA. As for Dawkins, I hadn't heard that before, but the timing of it makes sense.

Really sounds like Sour Grapes.. McGinnest has wanted to come back here the past year or so.. pats have moved on, just like most teams and he hasn' realized it yet.. He's a great player but to understand the overall scheme of running an organization, um I'll leave it to the people with experience..

Which gets me to

pat kirwan was on yesterday talking about how the Eagles and pats are the best at making the hard choice and letting players go. In today's NFL, teams can't pay for what a player has done but what the player will do.. They are hedging their bets..


Bottom line, what player left the Pats and was a dominate player at his position? You could throw in maybe Samuel and adam vinatieri.. But we replaced Adam V that very year with a younger and cheaper player.. Samuel is really the only player we let go that has produced at a high level year in and year out.. In hindsight, I'm sure they would have wanted to keep him..

I don't think that the Pats did a particularly good job of replacing McGinest, Vrabel or Seymour either

 

[jsull87]

Re: McGinest: "Pats don't take care of thier players that are still productive"

I think Asante has been a big loss....look at his year last year for the Eagles,He was definately missed the past 2 years.

Of coarse he was missed. He is a top tier cornerback and would make any team better. The point is we couldn't afford him for the contract he signed in philly. It's just the way the business goes sometimes

 

[Brarrell]

Re: McGinest: "Pats don't take care of thier players that are still productive"

Sheppard was on the outs with the Eagles long before Asante was a FA. As for Dawkins, I hadn't heard that before, but the timing of it makes sense.



I don't think that the Pats did a particularly good job of replacing McGinest, Vrabel or Seymour either

You know we go through this argument time and time again about how the Pats pay their players, the fact of the matter is they don't like paying their players or to be more specific the owners don't like paying out bonus money. Which is why they continuously trade out of the 1st into the second round they got 4 second round picks for the price of 1 first rounder which no doubt in my mind they will do again this year. The problem is you have to be good at talent evaluation and I think they have either been lacking at that or they are drafting the wrong players for their system. The bottom line here is they better do what they can while Brady is here because franchise QB's don't grow on trees and don't come along every year. When he is gone we will see how this system works without a franchise qb. As a season ticket holder I remember the tough years before Parcells, but I also remember being at the Miami game when the Pats beat them in OT in Bledsoe'd rookie year and the feeling I had leaving the stadium that day that this was the begining of something special. Now every decision is not a football decision it's a money decision and the owners are directly involved, face it Parcells was right about these owners.