Mankins

[MaineMan]

Do you even read what people say when they respond to your posts?



You clearly haven't spent much time on this forum, because half the posters in a thread believing something is not really evidence I would cite in your favor.

Furthermore, I didn't insult you for contemplating it. I insulted you based on the risible "reasoning" you employed, just like you did yet again in this thread. Apparently you are under the illusion that the offseason in the NFL is just like the offseason in Madden. I can't find any other way to justify the lunacy you posted in this thread and elsewhere (let's trade Wilfork and draft Dan Williams, who would be better AND cheaper!).

I mean, really?

For god's sake, SanAngelo! Please tell the man where the nuclear fuel rods are before he cripples you for life!!

 

[patriotscpfc]

You guys are overrating Ghost. Polian would have to be an idiot to overpay for him and give up a 2nd round pick. Especially considering guys like Rackers and Shayne Graham are available.

Two things:

No way either of those guys aren't re-signed one way or another.

And look at what those 2 guys did in post-season.

Yes, Polian would probably give up #63 to sort out the one thing his team lacks. Special Teams. Who needs Kick Coverage with a Touchback Kicker? Which in a dome, Ghost would be.

 

[bucky]

Two things:

No way either of those guys aren't re-signed one way or another.

And look at what those 2 guys did in post-season.

Yes, Polian would probably give up #63 to sort out the one thing his team lacks. Special Teams. Who needs Kick Coverage with a Touchback Kicker? Which in a dome, Ghost would be.

Like I said - you're overrating the guy. He had 3 dome games this year - Indy, NO, and Houston. He produced 4 touchbacks out of 17 kickoffs. That's about 23.5% - actually lower than his season total of 24.4%. On the other hand, the guy who kicks off for Indy - their Punter McAfee - produced touchbacks on 26% of his kickoffs.

On the other hand, here is how the Patriots have fared in the last few picks of round 2:

Vollmer - 58, Wheatley - 62, Hill - 63, Branch - 65.

I would much rather replace Ghost and have a 50-50 chance of landing the next Vollmer or Branch with that pick.

And just for kicks (pun intended), here is what the Colts have done in similar territory. Not exactly an all-star cast, but a lot of these guys were multi-year starters:

Fili Moala - 56, Mike Pollack - 59, Tim Jennings - 62, Kelvin Hayden - 60, Ben Hartsock - 68, Gilbert Gardner - 69, Mike Doss - 58, Marcus Washington - 59.

 

[ctpatsfan77]

I would much rather replace Ghost and have a 50-50 chance of landing the next Vollmer or Branch with that pick.

Except that any kicker they could get this year—either in the draft or FA—would be a clear downgrade from Gostkowski.

If you'd rather have the pick, that's your opinion. Personally, I think it's a bad idea, and I also think they'll tender him higher than that. [And if, God forbid, they do lose him on a tender, I will gripe about it.]

 

[ctpatsfan77]

Interesting factoid. In 2005, the Pats franchised Vinatieri and, IIRC, he delayed signing the tender until well after the draft. The Pats picked up a UDFA kicker as insurance and he apparently did well enough in camp that Vinatieri relented and signed. The Pats then tried to slide this kicker through waivers to the P/S to have for the next season when Vinatieri was certain to be gone. But, Chicago claimed him so the Pats ended up having to draft Gostkowski in 2006.

Robbie Gould, BTW.

Close, but not quite. The Patriots released him in the second-to-last round of cutoffs, not the last. Also, he actually didn't sign with Chicago until October 2005.

 

[dryheat44]

Close, but not quite. The Patriots released him in the second-to-last round of cutoffs, not the last. Also, he actually didn't sign with Chicago until October 2005.

Cleveland got Phil Dawson and the Giants got Owen Pochman similarly. Of course, Vinatieri himself made the roster as TC competition for whichever Bahr brother was here at the time.

 

[ayjackson]

Wow, how'd a mauler LG thread turn into a kicker thread?!!?

 

[ctpatsfan77]

Wow, how'd a mauler LG thread turn into a kicker thread?!!?

Because they're both RFAs, and what they offer Gostkowski could impact what they offer Mankins (and vice versa).

Either that, or Gostkowski is just that awesome.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

Wow, how'd a mauler LG thread turn into a kicker thread?!!?

ctpatsfan77 started talking dirty CBA talk.

Two Patriots worthy of 'All-RFA' honors - Patriots Blog - ESPN Boston

 

[ctpatsfan77]

ctpatsfan77 started talking dirty CBA talk.

Two Patriots worthy of 'All-RFA' honors - Patriots Blog - ESPN Boston

Maybe, but FreeTedWilliams was the first person to mention Ghost by name.

 

[dryheat44]

It'll be interesting to see how the Janikowski contract affects things here.

 

[spacecrime]

I suppose it doesn't hurt to postulate the Patriots can acquire DeMarcus Ware for Eric Alexander, Sam Aiken and a 2nd round pick, I just choose not to live in that world.

We just see things differently, I guess. I would not equate a first and a third for mankins with Demarcus Ware for Alexander, Aiken and a 2nd.

And I stand by my premise that all of us have been surprised by signings and trades so that it is very difficult to say that this or that is so unreasonable.

Before he signed, who would have suggested that Dockery was worth $50 mil. Most reasonable people still don't think he is worth it, but wasn't that what he signed for.

How about $16 mil for a kicker that never made a probowl in his career?

It only takes one team, just one.

 

[spacecrime]

How do you know? You speak for everyone on the board now?

Are you a jerk or what? I didn't find it hard to believe that Esiason said the Jets were more talented than us. You insulted me for even contemplating it. That makes me laughable? Or does that make you a jerk? Half the people in the thread agreed with him. Is "everyone" laughing at them too?

Dude, you are embarrassing yourself, even if you don't see it. Quit while you are behind. Right now you are just a little behind.

 

[ctpatsfan77]

It'll be interesting to see how the Janikowski contract affects things here.

I think those contracts are, as is sometimes said, sui generis: I don't think any other team is willing to pay that much for a kicker, let alone both a kicker and a punter. Lechler's and Janikowski's hits are each as big as Wes Welker's.

 

[dryheat44]

I think those contracts are, as is sometimes said, sui generis: I don't think any other team is willing to pay that much for a kicker, let alone both a kicker and a punter. Lechler's and Janikowski's hits are each as big as Wes Welker's.

I haven't seen contract details. I've read elsewhere that it amounts to a 3 year deal at 2.25 million/year, with a couple bonuses thrown in. I'd sign Gostkowski up to 3 million a year. Weren't they willing to go that high with Vinatieri? Welker is drastically underpaid. I don't think Lechler is overpaid (I do think Seabass is, though).

People mistakenly think Gostkowski's primary value to this team is in kicking field goals. It's not. It's things like taking a kickoff from his own 20 yard line on a freezing cold day, and putting it out of the back of the end zone, preventing a dangerous returner from getting his hands on it. His ability to consistently pin opponents deep makes him a key member of the defense.

We need a punter who can do that too...like Lechler. The kid from East Carolina is the best I've seen this past year.

 

[ctpatsfan77]

People mistakenly think Gostkowski's primary value to this team is in kicking field goals. It's not. It's things like taking a kickoff from his own 20 yard line on a freezing cold day, and putting it out of the back of the end zone, preventing a dangerous returner from getting his hands on it. His ability to consistently pin opponents deep makes him a key member of the defense.

And thus are myths born. . . .

If you're talking about the Miami game, it was 65°F, and the rekick was from the NE 25.

[If it were freezing cold, there is no way he or anybody else kicks that ball 85 yards. The colder the day, the more a football acts like a brick.

 

[dryheat44]

I haven't seen contract details. I've read elsewhere that it amounts to a 3 year deal at 2.25 million/year, with a couple bonuses thrown in. I'd sign Gostkowski up to 3 million a year. Weren't they willing to go that high with Vinatieri? Welker is drastically underpaid. I don't think Lechler is overpaid (I do think Seabass is, though).



And thus are myths born. . . .

If you're talking about the Miami game, it was 65°F, and the rekick was from the NE 25.

[If it were freezing cold, there is no way he or anybody else kicks that ball 85 yards. The colder the day, the more a football acts like a brick.

Well, I'm usually not one to let facts get in the way of making a point, which is that what makes Gostkowski valuable to the typical free agent kicker is that he can greatly influence field position on kickoffs, even in cold weather. Field goal accuracy fluctuates wildly year-to-year, even among good kickers. Vanderjagt went from best all-time to out of the league practically overnight. Last year Nick Folk lost his job a year after being a pro bowl kicker. We could sign a number of people to accurately kick field goals, but it's nice not to have to carry a kickoff specialist. I really wasn't trying to focus on one particular instance, although I did have one in mind while I was typing.

 

[mgteich]

Perhaps Gost will now expect to get at this least this from the pats. In any case, the pats are likely to tender him. I suspect the pats and most posters would be fine if someone "stole" him from us and gave us a first rounder.

It'll be interesting to see how the Janikowski contract affects things here.

 

[yopats]

It will be very interesting to see how much the front office looks at the possibilities such as moving Wilfork / Mankins / Light / AD / Maroney / Ghost etc..

There is a ton of value for some of those guys in a very DEEP draft...