Mangini's Mess

[Awesomo 3000]

I suspect that McDaniels ran into similar issues in Denver. The team morale got so bad during his second season that you could practically feel the apathy and depression oozing off the field during their games. I liked some of the ideas that McD brought to the table, and he had his good qualities, but he completely lost influence on team morale, and seemed to be driving them into the dirt.

With McD, we don't have player memoirs coming out, detailing the inner workings of the team, but for whatever reason, McDaniels seemed to run into problems very similar to Mangini's.

Good leadership and charisma are things that can't be trained up (much). Either you have it or you don't. Maybe they'll grow into those roles better, in a few years.

 

[patsfanincleveland]

I suspect that McDaniels ran into similar issues in Denver. The team morale got so bad during his second season that you could practically feel the apathy and depression oozing off the field during their games. I liked some of the ideas that McD brought to the table, and he had his good qualities, but he completely lost influence on team morale, and seemed to be driving them into the dirt.

With McD, we don't have player memoirs coming out, detailing the inner workings of the team, but for whatever reason, McDaniels seemed to run into problems very similar to Mangini's.

Good leadership and charisma are things that can't be trained up (much). Either you have it or you don't. Maybe they'll grow into those roles better, in a few years.

One common theme of both Denver and Cleveland was a healthy mix of meatheads on both teams.

tends to influence morale.

I don't remember 2000 as high morale.

 

[Fencer]

BB's style is predicated upon mutual respect between players and coach.
That doesn't seem to have been present in Cleveland.

 

[fnordcircle]

Mangini and Josh both tried to emulate Bill and it failed.

Reading that part about asking a soldier leading questions was really cringe worthy and honestly, kinda insulting. Dude lost friends to a roadside bomb and you're trying to compare that to football - one of life's most pointless endeavors?

This isn't lost on players. They're not all the dumb as rocks people that they are portrayed. They know when someone is trying to hamfistedly motivate them and it backfires as a result.

I still wouldn't mind having Mangini come back. I've forgiven him for Spygate since I don't think he had any intent of involving the league. It was another clumsy attempt to mess with Bill. Trying to recruit people on the plane back from Denver was worse, if anything. And I think he's a good defensive mind with a decent eye for talent.

 

[SEA_Pat]

I still wouldn't mind having Mangini come back. I've forgiven him for Spygate since I don't think he had any intent of involving the league. It was another clumsy attempt to mess with Bill. Trying to recruit people on the plane back from Denver was worse, if anything. And I think he's a good defensive mind with a decent eye for talent.

I wouldn't mind him coming back - as a tackling dummy. No forgiveness for the Traitor. Vermin.

 

[Bella*chick]

Mangini and Josh both tried to emulate Bill and it failed.

I think they should have considered the fact BB himself failed spectacularly when he was super young and trying to assert his authority as well. Some things you can't get away with unless you have those years of experience and a proven track record. I remember the articles when BB came here about everything he tried to do differently but the true difference turned out to be mostly luck....one Tom Brady and one Mo Lewis. People listen when you prove yourself a winner.

 

[fnordcircle]

People listen when you prove yourself a winner.

I think that's absolutely what Mangini especially missed. He had just come from a spectacular flame-out in NY where he went from Man-genius to a joke. The stuff he was doing in Cleveland seemed like the stuff only an established winner in the league could get away with.

Also, he really seems to miss the point that there are adults he is dealing with. This is the sort of stuff I'd expect to hear from a college or HS coach. Reciting mantras about what is important to the team? Empty words to most of these guys.

 

[Bella*chick]

I cannot imagine anyone likes to be treated like a child from a guy whose not that far off from being a child himself.

 

[billdog3484]

dude is bitter. was there a week.

 

[Captain Cliche]

The dude failed miserably at 2 different locations.
Did not learn from his mistakes.
All stick and no carrot....piss poor leadership technique.
All ambition and no wisdom.
BB wannabe.

Why are you folks defending the sneaky rat bastard?

 

[PP2]

I cannot imagine anyone likes to be treated like a child from a guy whose not that far off from being a child himself.

From the vantage of being in a leadership position myself, I can readily tell you and everyone else that mistreating people who work (or play) for you is the fastest way to run your ship aground. In fairness to him and to BB, I did think I was the big cheese at one point, long ago, and of course found that was a very inefficient method of management. Through trial and tribulation I have found that the best form of leadership is one in where the workers (or players) do not even realize they are being led.

I cringe when I read instances of BB dressing down players in front of the whole team, such as during video review. That does absolutely nothing, for me, because those players are mature enough to understand they made a mistake, and that if they make one too many mistakes, they are off the team. One mantra that I have learned the hard way is that you never yell or demean an individual in front of other people, or your team. There is not much else that is psychologically more dehumanizing that that, and in fact all that does is cause more stress, and increases exponentially the probability that someone is going to choke again at the wrong moment.

Also I am so sick and tired of managers incorporating what they think are "military concepts" such as yelling and screaming, a.k.a. what they think Navy SEALs do (as was written about in that article). What they don't get is that all that screaming and yelling that occurs during BUDS is designed to do one thing and only one thing: flush out those who cannot handle extreme psychological stress. The yelling stops once you get your "budweiser." As that article points out, it is moot and useless to yell or scream at a 5 or 10 year veteran, because obviously that player is doing something right to remain competitive for that long, whether by being a serious student of football or taking real good care of himself, physically and nutrition-wise.

 

[Ring 6]

From the vantage of being in a leadership position myself, I can readily tell you and everyone else that mistreating people who work (or play) for you is the fastest way to run your ship aground. In fairness to him and to BB, I did think I was the big cheese at one point, long ago, and of course found that was a very inefficient method of management. Through trial and tribulation I have found that the best form of leadership is one in where the workers (or players) do not even realize they are being led.

I cringe when I read instances of BB dressing down players in front of the whole team, such as during video review. That does absolutely nothing, for me, because those players are mature enough to understand they made a mistake, and that if they make one too many mistakes, they are off the team. One mantra that I have learned the hard way is that you never yell or demean an individual in front of other people, or your team. There is not much else that is psychologically more dehumanizing that that, and in fact all that does is cause more stress, and increases exponentially the probability that someone is going to choke again at the wrong moment.

Also I am so sick and tired of managers incorporating what they think are "military concepts" such as yelling and screaming, a.k.a. what they think Navy SEALs do (as was written about in that article). What they don't get is that all that screaming and yelling that occurs during BUDS is designed to do one thing and only one thing: flush out those who cannot handle extreme psychological stress. The yelling stops once you get your "budweiser." As that article points out, it is moot and useless to yell or scream at a 5 or 10 year veteran, because obviously that player is doing something right to remain competitive for that long, whether by being a serious student of football or taking real good care of himself, physically and nutrition-wise.

There are many different styles of leadership and management. Most can be effective if done properly.
Buddy style management works with self motivated people who are truly striving to be their best. It is rare that any organization is made up of only those people. You are putting a big blanket over authoritative, demanding, demeaning and yelling, and they do not belong in one group.

 

[detpatsfan]

I thought Mangini did a job job in New York. He inherited a bad team in Cleveland. Definitely a much better coach than that fat blowhard Rex Ryan.