Mac Jones working out with Nic Shimonek on his strength and conditioning

[Rob0729]

Mac was under duress but there were plenty of clean pockets within which he did very well. So more clean pockets are needed, but Mac will always be under duress to some extent and has to be able to deal with it. To date he has not shown the ability to adapt to the speed of the NFL when the pocket is not clean.

Agreed

It was a joke, but it happens from time to time around these parts!!!

Towards the end of season, Jones made some good plays under duress. Here are some examples I found.






Although this was a deflection, this would have been a TD catch by Henry without a deflection if he was playing. Unfortunately a fourth string TE couldn't hang onto the ball.





I accidentally put this one in. It was from early in the season.



BTW, I would show other ones because he had two nice passes to Thornton under pressure down the stretch and a long TD pass to Bourne under pressure down the stretch, but Twitter's search function is all screwed up these days and I cannot find the video.

 

[Rob0729]

 

[Jim Beankie]

He was flexing his guns.

Gun Show = 70 yard TD passes

Gonna wipe the competition with that...

 

[Rob0729]

BTW, the stats for under pressure from PFF is subjective that Phil Perry quoted because there are degrees of being under pressure. The Pats had a lot plays where there were at least one or two defenders who got into the backfield untouched within a second or two. Both tackle positions had more than their fair share of these types of plays. That is a different pressure than if an o-linman engages a defender and just loses the battle, but at least slowing down the pressure a second or two.

So I don't know what those stats mean for Jones this year because of the awful o-line play. Sure, Jones wasn't the only QB with awful o-line play this season. But I bet most of the guys who had a lot of plays where defenders had jailbreak runs at the QB had mediocre to bad stats under pressure. Burrow may be the exception, but as bad as his o-line was, I don't know if they just totally whiffed on blocks all that much.

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

Towards the end of season, Jones made some good plays under duress. Here are some examples I found.






Although this was a deflection, this would have been a TD catch by Henry without a deflection if he was playing. Unfortunately a fourth string TE couldn't hang onto the ball.





I accidentally put this one in. It was from early in the season.



BTW, I would show other ones because he had two nice passes to Thornton under pressure down the stretch and a long TD pass to Bourne under pressure down the stretch, but Twitter's search function is all screwed up these days and I cannot find the video.

Thanks for digging those videos out. I agree that after the Raiders game, Mac was much better, but I am not sure the pocket was any cleaner which I take to mean that a lot of the issues were "Mac issues". But as you note, Mac was much better to end 2022 (trending up), whereas he was worse to end 2021 (trending down), so maybe he will continue the upward trend in 2023. I have said previously that having a tough year is not necessarily a waste, Mac will have to deal with adversity and hopefully he saw his fair share in 2022 . We simply have to wait and see. Mac is a good guy, and works hard, so the sky is the limit.

 

[Ian]

Thanks for digging those videos out. I agree that after the Raiders game, Mac was much better, but I am not sure the pocket was any cleaner which I take to mean that a lot of the issues were "Mac issues". But as you note, Mac was much better to end 2022 (trending up), whereas he was worse to end 2021 (trending down), so maybe he will continue the upward trend in 2023. I have said previously that having a tough year is not necessarily a waste, Mac will have to deal with adversity and hopefully he saw his fair share in 2022 . We simply have to wait and see. Mac is a good guy, and works hard, so the sky is the limit.

Posted this in the "LinkSpace" area, but this was also a pretty good overall collection someone posted of some of the throws he's made over his first two seasons:

 

[PatsFan2]

Posted this in the "LinkSpace" area, but this was also a pretty good overall collection someone posted of some of the throws he's made over his first two seasons:

Photovideoshopped?? For real though Ian: those are some very good throws from Mac hope we see a consistent flow of those going forward.

 

[Ross12]

BTW, the stats for under pressure from PFF is subjective that Phil Perry quoted because there are degrees of being under pressure. The Pats had a lot plays where there were at least one or two defenders who got into the backfield untouched within a second or two. Both tackle positions had more than their fair share of these types of plays. That is a different pressure than if an o-linman engages a defender and just loses the battle, but at least slowing down the pressure a second or two.

So I don't know what those stats mean for Jones this year because of the awful o-line play. Sure, Jones wasn't the only QB with awful o-line play this season. But I bet most of the guys who had a lot of plays where defenders had jailbreak runs at the QB had mediocre to bad stats under pressure. Burrow may be the exception, but as bad as his o-line was, I don't know if they just totally whiffed on blocks all that much.

I agree... I also was listening to this interview with Frelund earlier and thinking "how does this stat account for an offense which specifically runs plays that get the ball out in 2 seconds BECAUSE the OL is bad and can't protect?" Most likely the QB was never pressured because he dumped it off immediately, and he probably completed the pass successfully as a screen or something, but it was most likely not a very productive play.

That said, I think it does align with what many of us think about Mac. He can be good if the pocket is clean and wasn't as good when it got messy. But hey, that's okay. If they can keep him clean more often than last year and protect longer on average, he will probably play with more confidence and therefore be less frantic when there is a little pressure.

I did find the comments about route running interesting. Meyers is sharp, but I do recall Thornton running some ****ty routes at times and Bourne seemed to find himself in the wrong place often even if he is dynamic. I'm not really sure about Parker. Perhaps it's less about being "dynamic" and more about needing guys to run crisp routes and be where they should be (and the OC designing plays that put them in useful places). Meyers will be a little pricey but I find it painful to think that they would lose their only good route-runner. Maybe they can give him a really long deal with a big signing bonus and spread that cap hit out... 6 years/$90M with a $40M signing bonus, first year salary of $1M, so cap hit in 2023 would only be $7.6M. By 2029, you might have a cap hit of like $25M for him but it'll look perfectly reasonable compared to other WRs. Maybe 6 years is a long time for a WR though but I bet Meyers would take it, I think he wants security as a UDFA. He's 27 so it doesn't seem unreasonable to stick with him til he's 33.

 

[Rob0729]

More of Jones working out with Shimonek:

 

[RobertWeathers]

More of Jones working out with Shimonek:

Same drills if you want to get more distance with your golf shots.

 

[Ross12]

More of Jones working out with Shimonek:

God damn this dude is really working at it. Good to see

 

[cmasspatsfan]

I agree... I also was listening to this interview with Frelund earlier and thinking "how does this stat account for an offense which specifically runs plays that get the ball out in 2 seconds BECAUSE the OL is bad and can't protect?" Most likely the QB was never pressured because he dumped it off immediately, and he probably completed the pass successfully as a screen or something, but it was most likely not a very productive play.







That said, I think it does align with what many of us think about Mac. He can be good if the pocket is clean and wasn't as good when it got messy. But hey, that's okay. If they can keep him clean more often than last year and protect longer on average, he will probably play with more confidence and therefore be less frantic when there is a little pressure.







I did find the comments about route running interesting. Meyers is sharp, but I do recall Thornton running some ****ty routes at times and Bourne seemed to find himself in the wrong place often even if he is dynamic. I'm not really sure about Parker. Perhaps it's less about being "dynamic" and more about needing guys to run crisp routes and be where they should be (and the OC designing plays that put them in useful places). Meyers will be a little pricey but I find it painful to think that they would lose their only good route-runner. Maybe they can give him a really long deal with a big signing bonus and spread that cap hit out... 6 years/$90M with a $40M signing bonus, first year salary of $1M, so cap hit in 2023 would only be $7.6M. By 2029, you might have a cap hit of like $25M for him but it'll look perfectly reasonable compared to other WRs. Maybe 6 years is a long time for a WR though but I bet Meyers would take it, I think he wants security as a UDFA. He's 27 so it doesn't seem unreasonable to stick with him til he's 33.

God damn this dude is really working at it. Good to see

He has a shirt on but looks like he has more muscle definition, especially his upper body.

 

[Tunescribe]

He has a shirt on but looks like he has more muscle definition, especially his upper body.

Mac is pumped and jacked!

 

[captain stone]

Please tell me you don't actually take that silly little fantasy geeked, long-ball digging, casting-couch advancing bimbo seriously, do you?

 

[Triumph]

Towards the end of season, Jones made some good plays under duress. Here are some examples I found.






Although this was a deflection, this would have been a TD catch by Henry without a deflection if he was playing. Unfortunately a fourth string TE couldn't hang onto the ball.





I accidentally put this one in. It was from early in the season.



BTW, I would show other ones because he had two nice passes to Thornton under pressure down the stretch and a long TD pass to Bourne under pressure down the stretch, but Twitter's search function is all screwed up these days and I cannot find the video.

These Mac highlight reels are comedy gold.

Puzzling how he only had 11 passing TDs until the 17th game of the 2022 season with such a great arm. The great throws vs Miami and Baltimore were games with multiple INTs and NE lost, but anyway, how bout that dime to Parker.

What made Brady - Brady was CONSISTENCY making great throws for 60 minutes and game after game,

 

[Tunescribe]

That said, I think it does align with what many of us think about Mac. He can be good if the pocket is clean and wasn't as good when it got messy. But hey, that's okay. If they can keep him clean more often than last year and protect longer on average, he will probably play with more confidence and therefore be less frantic when there is a little pressure.

The "many of us" you refer to generally have difficulty distinguishing the forest for the trees. Frankly, I'm tired of this naively misperceived knock on Mac's "pocket presence." It simply does not wash considering: (A) he was at the developmental stage his first two seasons; (B) opposing defenses had enough film on him the second half of his rookie year to begin countering his tendencies; (C) his development was seriously stunted last season by a clueless OC, coming back early from a severe high ankle sprain and a musical chairs offensive line. Additionally, timing in the passing game was a HUGE problem last season forcing Mac to hold the ball too long waiting for receivers to break late off their routes as protection crumbled. ANY quarterback would lose confidence and become "jittery" forced to navigate that schemed fiasco week-in/week-out.

Mac does not require "longer-than-average" protection to succeed. And if you come back with "but Bailey Zappe" I will jump through my computer and slap you. For the umpteenth time, Zappe was not asked to do anything close to what Mac had on his plate in those tightly scripted cameo appearances throwing primarily to wide-open first reads vs. league-worst defenses.

 

[catent]

More apologizing and excusing inconsistent/poor play from a two year player who hasn’t proved much of anything yet, all the while speculating on things in a tone that suggests one is speaking with certainty - when they are not - to further apologize for and excuse the player’s performance, while tearing others down in the process of defending said player.

I have no issue with someone saying they think Mac is the guy, or can be the guy. I have no issue with someone saying they have no idea what will play out.

But these matter of fact, “Mac is the guy; he doesn’t actually have any meaningful flaws; his struggles are largely or entirely on others, etc” is tough to read … repeatedly.

 

[Rob0729]

These Mac highlight reels are comedy gold.

Puzzling how he only had 11 passing TDs until the 17th game of the 2022 season with such a great arm. The great throws vs Miami and Baltimore were games with multiple INTs and NE lost, but anyway, how bout that dime to Parker.

What made Brady - Brady was CONSISTENCY making great throws for 60 minutes and game after game,

It is even more puzzling considering the offense was designed to make Jones look like a star. He thrives when his tackles don’t block so Patricia had his tackles not block. Jones thrives when receivers run bad routes so Patricia had receivers run bad routes with no separation. Everything Jones wanted he got and he under performed.

You guys want to blame Jones for everything wrong with the offense.

And stop comparing him to Brady. It isn’t fair to compare any QB in the league other than maybe Mahomes to Brady.

 

[Rob0729]

More apologizing and excusing inconsistent/poor play from a two year player who hasn’t proved much of anything yet, all the while speculating on things in a tone that suggests one is speaking with certainty - when they are not - to further apologize for and excuse the player’s performance, while tearing others down in the process of defending said player.

I have no issue with someone saying they think Mac is the guy, or can be the guy. I have no issue with someone saying they have no idea what will play out.

But these matter of fact, “Mac is the guy; he doesn’t actually have any meaningful flaws; his struggles are largely or entirely on others, etc” is tough to read … repeatedly.

First, this is a false narrative. No one is saying Jones has no flaws and he is the guy. Most people who are defending him are saying it is impossible to review him from last year to judge what his real flaws are and whether he is a franchise QB because the offense was such a train wreck coming from the coaching staff.

Second, there are far more people declaring Jones a bust and discounting the disaster that Matt Patricia, Bill Belichick, and Joe Judge created because they claim Zappe had no problem with the offense.

 

[Rob0729]

Please tell me you don't actually take that silly little fantasy geeked, long-ball digging, casting-couch advancing bimbo seriously, do you?

I am neutral on Phil Perry. But his podcast was brought up in reference to how well he performed with a clean pocket. So I posted the podcast for reference.