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Look at our relationship with Green Bay

Discussion in 'The Practice Squad' started by MrNathanDrake, Feb 18, 2011.

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  1. MrNathanDrake

    MrNathanDrake Rookie

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    #95 Jersey

    Many ppl here wont admit it, but management in New England has been pretty bad in recent years.


    -Patriots trade up and get the Packers pick. Patriots use it on WR Chad Jackson, a monumental BUST. Packers then selected star WR Greg Jennings. We traded up, they traded down. We end up with nothing, they end up with a superstar.

    -Patriots have a wealth of draft picks and "own the draft". Instead of using 1 in the first round, we keep trading down over and over. We couldve had almost any player outside of the Top 10 that we wanted. We end up with Darius Butler (BUST) and Ron Brace (Barely sees the field). Meanwhile, Green Bay ended up with Pro Bowler Clay Mathews. Our 5 year search for a stud OLB is still going on...

    -Patriots have Dom Capers as Defensive assistant. He obviously wanted to be D-Coordinator but that spot was taken by Dean Pees. A couple years later, Pees is gone due to poor performance and Capers moved on to Green Bay where he turned their 20something ranked defense into the 2nd ranked defense in the NFL. This is poor management on BB's behalf. Why did it take him so long to realize that Dean Pees wasnt working and promote Capers?



    We couldve easily had Greg Jennings, Clay Mathews, and Dom Capers. Instead we ended up with Chad Jackson, Ron brace, Darius Butler, and BB over-extending himself as a coach.

    Bad scouting/drafting, bad management, call it whatever you want. Green Bay is probably starting to look at New England, the same way we look at the Raiders.
    Last edited: Feb 18, 2011
  2. PaulThePat

    PaulThePat Rookie

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    Sorry, must have missed it when the Raiders went 14-2 and were 30 seconds from 19-0. Gotta love selective draft review. Everyone has busts when later picks developed into studs. Hey, if you're not happy you could always follow the Packers.
  3. Calciumee

    Calciumee PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    He played in 25% of snaps, which compared to his rookie season isn't bad going. Not great for a 2nd, but he isn't a bust.
  4. DarrylS

    DarrylS PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    My guess is that the author of this thread is a half empty kind of guy..

    Not sure how anyone could ever contend that the management of the NEP has been pretty bad the past couple of years..

    Maybe they should spend some time with Dick McPherson, Rod Rust or any of the parade of azz clowns that were paraded through here in the 90's to see how bad things could have been..
  5. Clonamery

    Clonamery PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Sorry, but this is real life when you make a mistake, there it is. Just stick with the video games and just start over when f**k up.

    Fool.
  6. BSR

    BSR Rookie

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    Don't you think you are being a tad bit melodramatic? The Raiders, really?

    I think its silly to cherry pick a couple of moves during the period without stepping back and looking at the ultimate result. At the end of the day how many teams are in a better position? A few...maybe. That doesn't make the Pats management bad though. The expectation can't be number one every year and when we talk like that we come off as spoiled brats.

    I do really wonder what you thought was the best way to correct these "bad management" problems? Fire BB?
  7. Elijah

    Elijah PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #11 Jersey

  8. convertedpatsfan

    convertedpatsfan PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #12 Jersey

    This isn't the worst post I've ever seen here. But it's in the top 10 for sure.
  9. randomk1

    randomk1 Rookie

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    I don't care about Jennings and all that other **** but i am kind of pissed we passed on Clay.Sure there were question marks about him(which player doesn't?) but in the combine he was impressive and he was considered a top prospect at the position and we needed a pass rush and we still do.
  10. OhExaulted1

    OhExaulted1 Rookie

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    #15 Jersey

    Obviously your focus is mainly on recent drafts. Mike Sherman is a helluva coach, no doubt about it, but Capers is getting old.

    You mentiontioned Butler and Brace but left out Chung and Vollmer. How does this validate your argument? Tate, Pryor and Edelman also have made solid contributions from the 2009 draft. 2010 yeilded Mcourty, Gronk, Spikes, Hernandez, Mesko and Deadrick. Oh yeah, don't forget Jets cast-off D.Woodhead.

    The Raiders? Seriously? Go ask a Raider fan about Russell and Hayward-Bay sometime. I'd rather see our misses in Rd. 2 than in the top 10. Of course we never pick in the top 10 because we never suck as bad as the Raiders.

    I find serious flaws in your assessment. Jackson was 2006. Get up with the times.
  11. borg

    borg Rookie

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    The OP is dead on....sorry fan boys. I don't know how anyone can defend these whiffs in the 2nd round. Second rounders are supposed to end up in the starting lineup eventually, not get cut, benched, or jagged. Personnel bombed badly. They are so regimented in their type casting of WR and OLB that a whole world of talent gets passed by.
    As far as Pees goes, he was ultraconservative. The question is/was...did the roster makeup force him to sit back, did BB direct this approach, or was it Pees. Clearly they were not on the same page. Considering the defensive roster is now loaded with #1 picks with more likely on the way, it is a good bet that personnel limited Pees during his time here.
  12. Triumph

    Triumph Rookie

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    Dont forget Devin Hester and Marques Colston. The Saints got Colston with a 7th round pick.

    Im not defending the pick, Jackson was an Idiot. But, Jackson played in the spread at U of Florida. Branch had just shot his way out of town and the Pats were in dire straits for a replacement. Supposedly, Jackson knew something about the spread offense. Exactly what, is a mystery to this very day.

    Santurdio Holmes was the next highest ranked WR in that draft and is a criminal with character issues.

    Youre right, the pick sucked and to make matters worse Moroney was the previous pick in that draft.

    Many on this Pats board have high hopes for Darius. Afterall, he does wear a NE uniform.

    Im definitely not defending the Butler pick. But, again, Samuel left town in 2008 and NE tried to fill his shoes with Wheatley 2nd and Wilhite 4th. Niether panned out as a starting CB, so in 2009 enter Darius Butler and youre right, it hasnt been pretty. The 2010 selection of Devin Mcourty (thank goodness) said alot about the state of the NE CBs beyond Bodden.

    Wilhite is a goner IMO and Butler is in a make or break season.

    BB and Pees go way back to Kent State. If BB is anything, he is loyal to folks that have been loyal to him.
  13. ausbacker

    ausbacker Brady > Manning. PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #51 Jersey

    So the successes of other teams is the Patriots fault for not knowing what the career of a player would turn out like when selecting a player they thought would be better at the time?
  14. MassPats38

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    Over the past 4 years, the Packers record is as follows:

    2010 10-6
    2009 11-5
    2008 6-10
    2007 13-3

    While the fact that they won the title this year does not escape me, it is one title and once conference championship in one year. They are 5-2 in the playoffs, thanks entirely to a 4-0 run this year.

    And the Packers were geniuses for hiring Capers, except he likely wasn't their primary target - Nolan was.. Capers has been fired repeatedly, including in 2008 after his stint as DC in Miami. As is the case with many coaches, he has had plenty of ups and downs. Prior to this year, I challenge you to identify anything he won of significance, as an assistant or head coach, over an 18 year coaching history. He won this year. Let's not lionize him as the greatest DC in the NFL. And how was the defensive backfield for the Pats when he was coaching in 2008?

    I agree with others that there are picks and decisions every team would like to have back if allowed to do so. Consistently bad decisions make failed organizations, not the occasional bad decision. Hindsight is always 20/20. But comparing the Pats to the Raiders is ridiculous. Teams this year and pretty much every year say a win against the Pats is a big deal as the team knows how to win. That usually originates from Super Bowl winners, not the chumps.
  15. Calciumee

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    What does that make the Raiders to Green Bay? ;)
  16. FCB02062

    FCB02062 Rookie

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    Let's not forget some of the things at play during Capers' time with the Patriots. Curran, Felger, and a few others speculated that one of the MAIN reasons that Capers was brought in was to serve as a special "interim" coach in the event that Belichick was suspended for any period of time.
    This was a distinct possibility in the aftermath of "Spygate" and Krafty was simply preparing for the worst. Capers had just spent two years in Miami so he was already familiar with the offenses in the AFC East, thus giving a potential leg upon getting the team ready should he have to become head coach for the Pats. Also, don't forget he's a guy that HAS head coach experience.
    Also, don't forget, whatever role Capers' had with the defense, much of their defensive game plan went out the window when Brady went down. The 2008 Patriots were probably the most conservative Patriots defense I've ever seen. They didn't want to take chances, ESPECIALLY in the first few games with Cassell, because they didn't want to put the offense in a poor position.
    Basically, given the circumstances, Capers was never going to be a difference maker in 2008 with the Patriots...
  17. robertweathers

    robertweathers Rookie

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    OP like these reveal just how many spoiled brats there are within this fanbase.

    Not even worth typing to argue or offer a different viewpoint.
    Last edited: Feb 18, 2011
  18. Big-T

    Big-T Rookie

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    #51 Jersey

    So because the team traded down allowing the Packers to get Matthews who makes a few stand out flashy plays it's a bad thing?

    How about the number of times he's simply out powered by a tackle or over runs the play? or how about when he just forgets the seal the edge and a RB goes right by him? For every big play he makes, there's 2 mediocre ones, just watch the Super Bowl and you'll see how many bad plays he has.

    Now I'm not saying Butler & Brace are all world, but they fit into a rotation and I'd rather have the depth and wait for a more consistent player than Matthews to come along.
  19. Rob0729

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    It is easy to cherry pick moves to prove a point. So the Pats picking up Danny Woodhead of the scrap heap wasn't brilliant? So the Pats deciding to pass on a flashy head case WR like Dez Bryant and trade down to get Devin McCourty was a bad move? Brandon Spikes other than his suspension a bad pick? Drafting Sebatian Vollmer who was considered a major reach in the second round a bad pick? The fact of the matter Belichick has almost completely rebuilt this team on the fly after losing his core Super Bowl years players only a few short years ago. That is pretty damn good. With this year's draft, they should fill in the holes they still have.

    People need to get over the Clay Matthews pick. Hindsight is 20/20. The guy was the 26th pick in the draft and other LBs were picked before him like Larry English by the Chargers. He wasn't a sure thing. He might not have even been as good in this system. Matthews had several significant red flags as a draft prospect and was actually arguably the least productive of the three USC LBs coming into the draft. It wasn

    Personally, I am more upset with the Pats taking Devin McCourty who was a complete head scratcher than the proven dominant pass rusher Jerry Hughes who lit the world on fire his rookie year. Everyone was peissed about that.

    Every team makes mistakes in the draft. Bill Polian is supposed to be a genius on drafting, but has seemed to wasted a lot of first round picks in recent years (Donald Brown, Tony Ugoh, and now Jerry Hughes). The Jets have been good in drafting in recent years (at least getting home run hitters with few picks), but look to completely whiff on last year's draft and have one of the bigger busts in league history in Vernon Gholston.

    Belichick hit a home run in last year's draft. He has had a few drafts where he was horrible in recent years. Overall, the last two drafts were pretty good. That is how drafts work.

    I don't think you can look at any team and say they have great drafts year after year. The draft is still a crapshoot no matter how much you do your research. Guys like Clay Matthews and Greg Jennings were not guaranteed home run picks. If they were, they wouldn't have been drafted late in the first or in the second round. A lot of teams had needs for those players and passed on them or even took inferior players at those positions (The Giants took bust Sinorice Moss over Jennings).
  20. reflexblue

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    Mr Nathan Drake the cartoon charecter srikes again.
  21. Ron Sellers

    Ron Sellers Rookie

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    :deadhorse: Clay :deadhorse: Matthews :deadhorse: 20/20 draft pick hindsight :deadhorse: we're doomed :deadhorse:
  22. Rob0729

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    BTW, for all of Green Bay's brilliant draft selections, they have whiffed in recent years.

    Here is some of their top picks in years that didn't really pan out:

    2008
    2nd Round (their first pick) - Jordy Nelson - back up WR (fourth on the depth chart) who got under 300 yards and two TDs this past season
    2nd Round - Brian Bohm - couldn't make the final 53 man roster in 2009 and the Bills signed him off the practice squad and now he is their #3 QB.
    3rd Round - Patrick Lee - played in three games this year and 11 games last year has a career total of 11 tackles and one pass defense.

    2007
    First Round - Justin Harrell - has played in 14 games in three years (only two starts) and has 28 tackles and no sacks. Missed the entire 2009 season.
    Second Round - Brandon Jackson - had a decent year this year with 703 yards and 3 TDs, but only had 626 yards and 4 TDs total the previous three years combined.
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 18, 2011
  23. Tunescribe

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    #61 Jersey

    Next time you get the urge to post nonsense like this, you might want to consider going directly to the Practice Squad forum. That will save the mods some time and aggravation.
  24. Sciz

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    :deadhorse: Doesn't :deadhorse: fit :deadhorse: the :deadhorse: defensive scheme :deadhorse:
  25. signbabybrady

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    Cant really defend Chad Jack over Jennings but it was like people didnt agree with it at the time.

    The Dom Capers thing is what it is. We had a D coordinator for better or worse at the time and Capers wasnt happy with the role he filled here and moved on.

    But the Matthews thing I have found annoying.

    First off it would help if you got things right as trading down from that spot allowed us to pick up the extra picks that turned into Edelman and Gronkowski too. One of the two Butler or Brace would not be part of this trade as we already owned one and I also think there is something else in the equation that is missing but I dont remember who.

    Secondly, I really think the infatuation on Matthews has more to do with the perception of need on our team and not the actual trade. IMO people preceive OLB as the biggest need since Willie left and not having filled and passing up on Matthews is inconceivable to people. When the reality is they questioned how well he would fit in the system and instead moved down and got a ton in return IMO not a stupid move at all. When you apply hindsight maybe but hindsight doesnt show the whole picture only half. The other half is what would Matthews have done for us and lets assume he is equally as good a pass rusher he in theory was going to be overmatched in the run game and may not have been a 3 down player for us.

    Now dont get me wrong I might still perfer Matthews but I am not freaking out like it was the dumbest thing since the Dumb and Dumber sequel. To me it is risk reward and in their opinions there was more risk on a player that doesnt fit the mold then on 3 or four guys later.
  26. Rob0729

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    Funny, I just brushed past this line, but that has to be the stupidiest thing written on this site in a while. Pretty bad? The Pats went 14-2 last season. Here are some the "bad" moves managment has made:

    - Picking up Danny Woodhead off the scrap heap
    - Trading Randy Moss when he was clearly done for a third round pick rather than allow him to stay and bring down the team.
    - Signing BJGE as an undrafted free agent
    - Drafting McCourty when everyone in the world seemed to think he was a nickelback who could play special teams at most
    - Drafting Sebatian Vollmer when everyone thought he was a huge project.
    - Drafting Brandon Spikes when many thought he was a bad fit for the system
    - Drafting Gronk and Hernandez who completely changed the offense
    - Trading for Branch when everyone thought it was stupid
    - Trading Maroney away for a fourth round pick and watched him turn into a complete waste in Denver.

    I could go on.
  27. ctpatsfan77

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    Yeah, they passed on Matthews, but in return they get possibly the best TE since Tony Gonzalez? I dunno, but I wouldn't call that getting epically screwed by the Packers. . . .
  28. zoostation

    zoostation Rookie

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    ........lol !
  29. Sicilian

    Sicilian Rookie

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    In some people's minds, every draft success is luck (because how can you predict that these players were going to be this good?) and every draft failure is a sign of incompetence (because they should have KNOWN he was going to be this good/bad).

    And yes, that theory works in reverse as well.
  30. Larry Whigham

    Larry Whigham Rookie

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    I know exactly what you mean. I'm still not over the fact that we wasted a 6th round pick on some QB who couldn't even start full time for his college team. Clearly a sign of bad management.

    http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-game-highlights/09000d5d8022063d/Top-Ten-Draft-Steals-Tom-Brady
    Last edited: Feb 18, 2011
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