Link: Pats In Deep Freeze (Passing Game)

Discussion in ' - Patriots Fan Forum' started by Brownfan80, Oct 20, 2006.

  1. Brownfan80

    Brownfan80 In the Starting Line-Up

    Pretty good read about the Patriots WR situation this season:,0,4240647.story?coll=hc-headlines-patriots

    I don't necessarily agree with every angle that the author takes, I think he's far too on the 'the WR's aren't any good' side of the camp (I'm much more on the 'they need time' camp), but the article surely illuminates that there is more going on with this passing game than Bad playcalling.
    Last edited: Oct 20, 2006
  2. ctpatsfan1

    ctpatsfan1 On the Game Day Roster

    #75 Jersey

    The issue I have with the article is that it implies/states the Pats WR's can't get deep. That is completely bogus. I have seen at least 1 play in every game and multiple in most where the WR's had a step on the DB and had the pass been on target it would have gone for a long reception if not a TD. That is a timing thing between the QB and the WR and has nothing to do with the ability of the WR to beat a DB deep. IMHO the article/author is completely off base on the capabiility of the current WR's to get deep.
  3. Brownfan80

    Brownfan80 In the Starting Line-Up

    Yeah, I ignored the writer's spin and simply focused on the quotes by players and coaches as well as the actual statistical data. You can draw alot of your own conclusions simply from those items. The writer is a bit negative about the whole thing, and unrealistically so, as you point out.
  4. NE39

    NE39 Rotational Player and Threatening Starter's Job

    He is tough on the Pats WR corps, especially Gabriel.

    He says "Gabriel was competing for the Raiders' third receiver spot", which isn't true. Gabriel was running with the starters in Oakland before being traded. Gabriel has also been the Pats best WR in the last few weeks, catching 12-129-2. I don't think anyone is disappointed in his production, and he should continue to help the passing game.

    That said, I agree with the premise that Chad Jackson presents the best hope of adding a more explosive dimension to the passing game. He may be a rookie, but he has the kind of talent to make a difference.
  5. captain stone

    captain stone Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

    No Jersey Selected

    This article is an honest State of the Passing Game, So Far address.

    As for me, I'm in the "Give it more time, but if there isn't discernable improvement, beginning with the Buffalo game, then the WRs are as pedestrian as I feared they might be" camp.
  6. Brownfan80

    Brownfan80 In the Starting Line-Up

    I agree with your Gabriel comments. I also thought the angle the author took on our new WR was off. For how long he's been in the system and been healthy I've been very happy with Gabriel.

    I agree about Chad Jackson too. I think that even as a rookie he's an instant upgrade to our WR corps when he's fully healthy. All this talk of his lack of maturity and playbook knowledge is just bunk. The kid is going to be fine once he's got his healthy legs under him.
  7. Brownfan80

    Brownfan80 In the Starting Line-Up

    I'm sure that people will find some way to be down on our offense no matter what happens against Buffalo.

    At this stage it simply isn't perfect yet (or even close) and perfection is apparently what some people expect even in the face of our WR situation. (I'm not saying that you want perfection, but some in that camp do).
  8. AzPatsFan

    AzPatsFan Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

    Well ...whoop te do. I'm glad that you have decided to remain in the camp of "pedestrian receivers" BFD! . That and $2.00 will get ya acup of java in some places...

    I think its more important what the Patriots think. The scoreboard tells the truth 4-1.
  9. captain stone

    captain stone Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

    No Jersey Selected

    Excuse the eff out of me for expressing an opinion, which doesn't follow 100% in lock-step with the FO's. How dare I.

  10. Brownfan80

    Brownfan80 In the Starting Line-Up

    Boys boys, we're all fans of the same team here. :)
  11. Oswlek

    Oswlek Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

    Not you. You're a Browns fan. :p

    Thanks for putting my prediction in the thread, btw.
  12. Brownfan80

    Brownfan80 In the Starting Line-Up

    We've already gotten that sorted out (Patsjew and I), all I had to do was put Troy Brown in my Avatar as opposed to Brady and then everyone would get it!!

    No problem, always willing to lend a helping hand.
  13. soxpatsbscs

    soxpatsbscs Rookie

    The fact that most of our receivers are rejects of other teams is ample evidence to say that we are not very competitive at wideout. Chad Jackson needs to become a big part of our team or we will be exiting early. Although I can't blame the Patriots for all these problems, sometimes the reality is you get what you pay for. I just hope they figure this out before we play Chicago or it's going to be ugly.
  14. JoeSixPat

    JoeSixPat Pro Bowl Player

    Although I don't want to beat a dead horse about my feelings on the dearth of a long game (been there, done that - not all that satisfying... you get a better reaction from the live ones) I do keep in mind that one should not draw too many conclusions from just the first 5 games

    But that's a double edged sword. I think defenses will give you the benefit of the doubt early on in the season - assuming that you have a credible deep threat - until its established that you don't. Unless something changes, Ds will no longer give us the benefit of the doubt. Now its not like they'll pull CBs off receivers - but you can foget about FS and SS being held back - they are free to come in, blitz, whatever...

    As the article indicated, thus far Watson is our best deep threat, and while I think he's too valueable to overuse in that situation, I'm not seeing a lot of alternatives right now - let's hope CJ gets back and has one of those very very rare rookie seasons like Terry Glenn did - but don't count on it either.

    Dave Thomas seems to have speed and good hands too - but like Watson, he's 255 lbs and isn't going to beat a CB deep too often.

    Deep WRs don't have to catch a lot of passes to stretch the field - but they do need to be sent deep enough often enough to have the positive impact of keeping Ds honest.
  15. RayClay

    RayClay Hall of Fame Poster

    #75 Jersey

    David Patten
    Mike Vrabel
    Roman Phifer
    Junior Seau
    Bryan Cox
    Rodney Harrison!
    Mike Compton
    Artrell Hawkins
    Chad Scott
  16. RayClay

    RayClay Hall of Fame Poster

    #75 Jersey

    With Gabriel and Jackson we will have more of a deep threat than ever in the Belichick era.

    Our only real deep threats have been Patten and Bethel. We certainly miss Branch's quickness, but he was never a pure deep threat.

    2 of our 3 newcomers had faster 40 times not including Jackson who is probably as quick much faster and stronger.

    It's Branch's fault we are in this predicament, so why not let the team and players get up to speed before we get all judgemental.

    Gaffney, Caldwell and Branch were all judged by Gil Brandt pre draft. Who knows what would have happened had they landed on different teams.

    Gaffney and Caldwell were rated 4 and 6 respectively.

    Here's a hint true deep threats aren't ranked behind 14 other receivers.

    Why not give the "expert" analysis a rest until these guys get a chance to shake the rust off.

    4. Jabar Gaffney, Florida (6-1 1/8, 193, 4.49 on grass)
    Did not work out at the combine other than the participating in the shuttle and cone drills. Ran two 40s (4.48 and 4.49) on grass at Pro Day. Had a 36½-inch vertical jump and a 9-foot, 10-inch long jump. High-school football player who caught the game winning pass in the 1997 State Championship Game as a wide receiver. Redshirted in 1999. Started eight games in 2000 and set NCAA Div. I-A freshman record for touchdowns as a wide receiver with 14. Also set NCAA record for yards gained by a freshman. Tremendous athlete with very good hands. Does a very good job adjusting to the ball. Has great body control, fluid and has outstanding ability to gain yards after the catch. Had some character problems and was kicked off the team after the 1999 season. Came back without a scholarship for the 2000 season. Does not have real big hands. Florida has had receivers picked in Round 1 who did not burn up the league — is he a product of the system? During the time I spent with him, three days at the Playboy All-America weekend, he was a model young man.

    6. Reche Caldwell, Florida (5-11¾, 194, 4.39 on grass)
    Worked out at the combine. Had a 41½-inch vertical jump and a 10-foot, 10-inch long jump. Performed 10 strength lifts and ran two 40s (4.48 and 4.50) on wet grass. Was a high school quarterback who passed for 77 touchdowns in his career. Redshirted in 1998. Started two games in 1999 and 12 in 2000. Started and had a big year in 2001 (63 catches and 10 touchdowns). Very good athletic ability with top speed. Very good body control. Florida's offensive system is very good and tends to make wide receivers look a lot better than they end up being in the NFL. This player has good hands and the quickness needed for the position.

    15. Deion Branch, Louisville (5-9 1/8, 191, 4.47 on turf)
    Had a complete combine workout. Had a 36-inch vertical jump and a 9-foot, 9-inch long jump. Also ran the 40-yard dash twice for times of 4.45 and 4.49 seconds. Played at a junior college for two years. Returned kicks while playing receiver. Was redshirted in 1999 for academic reasons. Has soft, reliable hands that enable him to make the clutch catch. Not as tall as teams like even though he caught more than 140 passes for 19 touchdowns over the past two seasons.
  17. PatsSteve1

    PatsSteve1 In the Starting Line-Up

    * That those guys have been good players here doesn't mean the new WR's will be. One could list Monte Biesel, Duane Starks, Steve Martin, etc., too.
    Some of those guys you listed had good careers before they got here. IMO, if you look at the new WR's they really haven't done anything as yet in their careers to make anyone think the Patriots will have a high flying pass offense. And they don't need to be. They just need to get better. And be able to get open when they have to. As long as the D stays as stingy as it has been, they don't have to score that many more points per game. What I really want to have them do is give me confidence that in a big game if the Patriots are behind late in a game, these WR's are going to be able to get open when they have to so the Patriots can move the ball downfield for the points needed to win the game. In some other years when the Patriots were behind in the 4th Q, I know I had the feeling they had the recievers to march downfield and tie or win the game.
    Right now I can't say I have that feeling.
  18. RayClay

    RayClay Hall of Fame Poster

    #75 Jersey

    Of course it doesn't. Did you read the quote to which I was responding?

    "The fact that most of our receivers are rejects of other teams is ample evidence to say that we are not very competitive at wideout."

    All I'm saying is, we've been on a bye week, let these guys run around and try to catch some damn balls before we decide they're no good.

    By every indication we have some physically talented receivers.

    Nobody knows if they'll work out, but they have as good or better chance as the receivers we've had in the past.
    Last edited: Oct 20, 2006
  19. PatsSteve1

    PatsSteve1 In the Starting Line-Up

    * What in there NFL careers so far indicates that besides hoping they do?
  20. RayClay

    RayClay Hall of Fame Poster

    #75 Jersey

    The only thing that will indicate how these receivers do is how they do.

    It's really hard to prove anything on a bye week isn't it?

    We have never had a proven experienced star receiver join the Patriots during the BB era.

    They all had to prove it on the field.
    Last edited: Oct 20, 2006

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