Linebackers down the Road

[shirtsleeve]

He was handed Bru, TJ and Willie. Besides older vets, he got lucky with Vrabel, (and smart) and paid for Colvin.

We don't know how he's going to replenish the LB corps and I'm not sure he does either.

It's either pay BIG for free agents or draft IMO.

Beisel shows that stealing a backup isn't a reliable way to go. In other words, you can't build solely by stealing under appreciated players like Vrabel.

I'm sure they'll still hope Gardners turn into Vrabels, however.

I think we are essentially saying the same thing. Even AzPatsfan is in the same ball park. We are all just saying it differently. We all doubt BB is going to bust his draft to get that "first round stud" LB. His system requires time to learn and develop in, so unless he is willing to hand out two paydays (one for a big first round pick rookie contract and a second to keep him when that contract ends), he is unlikely (none of us said impossible) that he will draft that position in the first or top of the second round. He will likely continue to draft LB's further down the board, develop them, and hope to resign them before they emerge as true talents to the rest of the league. While it is also possible to pay (at least some) for an established young LB, this too has not been his history (with the obvious Colvin exception). His history, for the most part, when dealing with FA LB's is to find overlooked players who fit our system well and to bring in established older vets with a few years left in the tank who have already collected on their big payday and want to play for a playoff competitor.

That was the intent of my initial post, as well as to keep any big LB draft or FA prospect thoughts in perspective.

Ray, you and Az technically agreed with that post, while spinning a different perspective on the same opinion.

 

[RayClay]

I think we are essentially saying the same thing. Even AzPatsfan is in the same ball park. We are all just saying it differently. We all doubt BB is going to bust his draft to get that "first round stud" LB. His system requires time to learn and develop in, so unless he is willing to hand out two paydays (one for a big first round pick rookie contract and a second to keep him when that contract ends), he is unlikely (none of us said impossible) that he will draft that position in the first or top of the second round. He will likely continue to draft LB's further down the board, develop them, and hope to resign them before they emerge as true talents to the rest of the league. While it is also possible to pay (at least some) for an established young LB, this too has not been his history (with the obvious Colvin exception). His history, for the most part, when dealing with FA LB's is to find overlooked players who fit our system well and to bring in established older vets with a few years left in the tank who have already collected on their big payday and want to play for a playoff competitor.


That was the intent of my initial post, as well as to keep any big LB draft or FA prospect thoughts in perspective.

Ray, you and Az technically agreed with that post, while spinning a different perspective on the same opinion.

I don't want to argue that we haven't had or don't have good Linebackers.

I am talking about the future.

We'd like to find a Mike Vrabel every two years. A player that's not at the end of his career and is affordable.

We'd also like affordable young free agents.

When we find out we can't fill all the holes that way, we'll have to either draft them or sign expensive free agents.

Posters who say we'll never draft linebackers overlook the fact that Bruschi, TJ and Mcginest were drafted in the 3rd, 2nd and 1st round, respectively.

They were not free agents. They were drafted previously, but they were drafted. If we didn't have them we would have had to replenish somehow.

 

[RayClay]

I think if their is a pass rushing demon undersized DE, BB might take that leap.

Otherwise, I really don't know if he goes high or low, DE/OLB or conventinal LB since he has virtually no record of drafting linebackers, (DE conversions count since we're not putting them on a 3-4 line).

I'd certainly rather pick up affordable vets with 1-2 years left than expensive ones with 4.

 

[RayClay]

I don't know if he was active last week, but they should give him a chance at the end of the next blowout when the opportunity presents itself. Detroit is down the road.

Pretty sure that was him with a nice ST stop.

 

[SVN]

drafting 3-4 LB's will be difficult especially teams like cleveland etc picking before us...

 

[BelichickFan]

drafting 3-4 LB's will be difficult especially teams like cleveland etc picking before us...

I think the Browns have had their fill after taking 3 in last year's draft. Miami has also drafted several recently.

 

[Milkman]

I would not be suprised if they added an o-lineman or wr obviously./QUOTE] On the WR front - don't be surprised if David Patten becomes available. He's been a bust for the Redskins - routinely injured.

 

[mgteich]

I probably would have drafted a linebacker in the first two rounds in almost every bb draft. I probably would have tried to pick up a high-profile linebacker in free agency many times. And I would have been wrong!! bb and pioli know what they want and they know how to execture their strategy.

Sure, a DE could be available next year that bb will draft as a linebacker. It could happen. And we'd all celebrate.

BTW, what is wrong with our present corps of linebackers? It would seem that we need to extend or replace TBC and Seau. We already have Woods and Mays on the squad. Alexander is an ERFA and should stay. Gardner will likely be back trying for a spot.

I am fine with our current group of starters, backups and special teamers.

Colvin,Seau,Bruschi,Vrabel
TBC,Alexander,Woods,Gardner(IR)
Izzo, Davis, Mays

If TBC's extended, bb has all his options open. He can pick up a high profile lb in free agency or not. Ditto for the draft.

 

[MrBigglesWorth]

I could see BB picking a linebacker if it was in the mid to lower teens. The money is not that outrageous considering the trade off if you're getting a starter. The player will be locked up for 4 years.

They can't keep patching things up. Eventually these guys are gonna get too old or just plain retire.

I would love to see the defense get some help form the frist two rounds of the draft. Imagine how much better they would be and they're good now.

 

[mgteich]

What?????

Our defense line has three #1 draft choices! Green is a 4th rounder. We also have Hobbs, Sanders and Hill, from the early rounds, Samuel from the 4th plus Guss Scott on IR.

The reality is that we would be much worse, if we didn't get the help we've gotten from the early rounds of the draft. The defense has always gotten at least its share from the early rounds of the draft.

Just because bb seems to prefer free agency rather the draft for linebackers, doesn't mean that he undervalues linebackers (check out their salaries) or that he doesn't draft defense.

I would love to see the defense get some help form the frist two rounds of the draft. Imagine how much better they would be and they're good now.

 

[cstjohn17]

I don't want to argue that we haven't had or don't have good Linebackers.

I am talking about the future.

We'd like to find a Mike Vrabel every two years. A player that's not at the end of his career and is affordable.

We'd also like affordable young free agents.

When we find out we can't fill all the holes that way, we'll have to either draft them or sign expensive free agents.

Posters who say we'll never draft linebackers overlook the fact that Bruschi, TJ and Mcginest were drafted in the 3rd, 2nd and 1st round, respectively.

They were not free agents. They were drafted previously, but they were drafted. If we didn't have them we would have had to replenish somehow.

Our starting LBs are all solid to good, and TBC is an acceptable backup. If Claridge wasn't a bust we would have one more young gun on board. As it stands now there is no next wave of young play makers at LB, this may be the year we see one or two new faces added to the mix. I can't agree with your point about Willie, TJ and Bruschi they were drafted by another FO in 1994, 1995 and 1996 drafts. That was 10 freakin years ago!

The main reason they haven't drafted a lot of young LBs is because BB likes his vets and there hasn't been a pressing need. What is the point of spending a high draft pick on a player who would sit on the bench behind established stars? The balance is starting to drop especially at ILB where some speed is needed, the field turf may expose Seau and Bruschi's lack of speed. Even with a need to reload I would be very surprised if the Pats draft a LB in rounds 1 or 2 in 2007.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

The annual draft a LB now movement has been kicked off for the off-off-off-season. I say we trade Brady and Testeverde for Urlacher.

 

[RayClay]

Our starting LBs are all solid to good, and TBC is an acceptable backup. If Claridge wasn't a bust we would have one more young gun on board. As it stands now there is no next wave of young play makers at LB, this may be the year we see one or two new faces added to the mix. I can't agree with your point about Willie, TJ and Bruschi they were drafted by another FO in 1994, 1995 and 1996 drafts. That was 10 freakin years ago!

The main reason they haven't drafted a lot of young LBs is because BB likes his vets and there hasn't been a pressing need. What is the point of spending a high draft pick on a player who would sit on the bench behind established stars? The balance is starting to drop especially at ILB where some speed is needed, the field turf may expose Seau and Bruschi's lack of speed. Even with a need to reload I would be very surprised if the Pats draft a LB in rounds 1 or 2 in 2007.

My point is we don't know what they will do, because they haven't needed to do much besides patch.

They will have to get linebackers with more than a couple years tread on the tires. Bruschi is still on the team and Willie was last year. My point is we used draftees, they just weren't drafted by Belichick.

Would we have paid to sign free agents of the caliber of McGinest or Bruschi?

We'll never know because they were inherited.

I think I'm being clear, but apparently people are having a lot of trouble understanding me.

Future Linebackers with fresh legs, where will they come from?

By the way, I'm not saying they should draft in the first two or sign an expensive free agent.

I am saying I don't see a devastating pass rusher on the team and I don't think that type of player is picked up off the scrap heap.

Also, a pass rusher can be just a rusher until he learns. Bruschi was.

Remember, the Patriots never draft a running back high, they only like vets.

 

[RayClay]

The annual draft a LB now movement has been kicked off for the off-off-off-season. I say we trade Brady and Testeverde for Urlacher.

Seau's good for another 10 years, right rocks?

Lest I be accused of heresy, is Bruschi slowing down? I don't see the leaping enthusiasm I'm used to.

The Bible according to Bill. Thou shalt not draft a Linebacker, nor shalt thou covet the high priced free agent.

The Lord will provide us with cheap, experienced linebackers if we have faith.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

Seau's good for another 10 years, right rocks?

Lest I be accused of heresy, is Bruschi slowing down? I don't see the leaping enthusiasm I'm used to.

The Bible according to Bill. Thou shalt not draft a Linebacker, nor shalt thou covet the high priced free agent.

The Lord will provide us with cheap, experienced linebackers if we have faith.

Bingo Ray!

Seau filled a hole after Bruschi & Gardner went down, and Beisel flunked out. Bruschi is better this year than last with the extra work and off-season. Vrabel, Colvin, and Banta-Cain are doing their jobs - 2nd in run defense, red zone studs - this is a LB oriented team and the defense hasn't been an issue barring secondary injuries.

BB/SP have been getting the job done. I think Gardner after an offseason conditioning program will be better suited to ILB in a 3-4. Woods is an excellent prospect for OLB. Alexander is following the Bruschi ST's route, as is Mays, time will tell if they can earn playing time the same way Tedy and TBC have done.

The position hasn't been ignored, so what me worry?

 

[RayClay]

Bingo Ray!

Seau filled a hole after Bruschi & Gardner went down, and Beisel flunked out. Bruschi is better this year than last with the extra work and off-season. Vrabel, Colvin, and Banta-Cain are doing their jobs - 2nd in run defense, red zone studs - this is a LB oriented team and the defense hasn't been an issue barring secondary injuries.

BB/SP have been getting the job done. I think Gardner after an offseason conditioning program will be better suited to ILB in a 3-4. Woods is an excellent prospect for OLB. Alexander is following the Bruschi ST's route, as is Mays, time will tell if they can earn playing time the same way Tedy and TBC have done.

The position hasn't been ignored, so what me worry?

Much as I'd like to ,they won't let us draft until April. Believe me, even Polian couldn't change that,

When it comes to what we need for the future, LB and DB head my list.

I think it's worth talking about, especially since we've patched successfully at
LB so far. I like Woods myself and you can project that all future linebacker needs will be filled by current personnel.

I don't feel that way as it is equally unprecedented for us to make starting linebackers out of free agents and 7th round picks as it is for us to draft them in the Belichick era.

 

[RayClay]

BTW Box, your position is God provides the Pats with linebackers as Manna from heaven?

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

BTW Box, your position is God provides the Pats with linebackers as Manna from heaven?

If you went to church more often you'd know this. :snob:

 

[RayClay]

If you went to church more often you'd know this. :snob:

Actually, I abide by the quote, "God helps those who help themselves".

I Thought it was in the Bible, but apparently it was Ben Franklin.

Oh well, guess that makes me a heathen.

I do believe in earthly methods of team building, but there's a thread about the redskins here and I think divine intervention might be what they need.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

Actually, I abide by the quote, "God helps those who help themselves".

I Thought it was in the Bible, but apparently it was Ben Franklin.

Oh well, guess that makes me a heathen.

I do believe in earthly methods of team building, but there's a thread about the redskins here and I think divine intervention might be what they need.

Look at the bright side, you learned something. God works in mysterious ways. (So does BB by the way )