Law Firm (BJGE) ran pretty well yesterday too

[Rob0729]

Much of the time, forum members pan BJGE for playing against the

54th thru 80th best players on the opposiing roster. Those players

have now been cut. Just because Brady came out of the game does

not mean that the Titans benched all their regulars at this point in the

game.

When the Pats pulled starters, the Titans did too. We still cannot read too much from this game even against the starters. The Titans flat out quit. The ONLY player on defense who even tried was Keith Bullock.

I am a Maroney supporter and you haven't seen me post a single post hyping his 123 yards and 1 TD. Maroney had a very good game, but again the Titans quit. They were more interested in staying warm and healthy than making plays.

Even Brady's performance I am approaching with a slight sense of optimism, but proclaiming him back. Very few QBs (if any other than him and maybe Peyton or Brees) could even pick apart a defense that quit like he did yesterday, but that doesn't mean when Moss is blanketed and they are putting pressure on Brady that we will see the 2007 version of Brady.

 

[RayClay]

Re: Law Firm (BJGE) ran pretty well yesterday too.

You are certainly right about the bad rush defenses, and I know you are super high on that 3.7 ypc average, as you've reminded us dozens of times. And you are right, it does add credibility to the whole discussion, but in some ways it's a bit overrated too.

Hall of Famer John Riggins had a 3.9 ypc IIRC. It certainly wasn't more than 4 if rounded up. That 3.7 stat is a bit played out, although I can somewhat understand why you use it--as I said.

For someone who was an UDFA, and in their 1st yr last yr, 3.7 wasn't as horrible as some would believe. He picked up the offense, something more than a long teneured pro-bowler vet could do, although at another position. He has added value on ST and his blocking assignments--not many major mistakes either.

Eddie George made four Pro bowls and started one. In nine years he averaged 3.6 He had two seasons averaging 4.1, everything else under 4.

Avg. yards is bull. If you can consistently get between 2 and 5 yards most of the time, you can move the chains.

 

[BradyFTW!]

Re: Law Firm (BJGE) ran pretty well yesterday too.

Eddie George made four Pro bowls and started one. In nine years he averaged 3.6 He had two seasons averaging 4.1, everything else under 4.

Avg. yards is bull. If you can consistently get between 2 and 5 yards most of the time, you can move the chains.

Eddie George was also widely recognized, then and now, as one of the most overrated players in recent history. That says a lot more about how meaningless pro bowls are than YPC.

Most RBs could pile up the stats that he got if they got the carries that he did. The only thing that he had going for him (for a while, anyways) was durability.

 

[Rob0729]

Re: Law Firm (BJGE) ran pretty well yesterday too.

Eddie George made four Pro bowls and started one. In nine years he averaged 3.6 He had two seasons averaging 4.1, everything else under 4.

Avg. yards is bull. If you can consistently get between 2 and 5 yards most of the time, you can move the chains.

Averages are bull especially when you are comparing a career average vs. a guy who had 24 carries last year. That isn't even a quarter of a season for most RBs.

 

[supafly]

Re: Law Firm (BJGE) ran pretty well yesterday too.

Hall of Famer John Riggins played in a different NFL. He's irrelevant.

The 3.7 ypc is played out? What stat do you want to use? There aren't any that say that BJGE was anything other than replacement level last year.

I am not sure exactly why using the example of a hall of fame player like Riggins, or Eddie George is 'irrelevant," but I guess it doesn't matter that much. If anything the NFL of old used even more running attacks, as it was at least just as prevelant, if not more. And it was also before the free agency era, so defenses that were good were able to use the same players yr after yr. I guess there are arguments/points to both sides, but I don't see it being 'irrelevant.'

What stat do I want to use? None. I just don't understand why many posters would put down a player or the players' use on their own team? The guy is basically a major overachiever just for making the team. He wasn't drafted, yet he came off the bench as called, did everything he was asked, had 100 yd games, has NEVER fumbled, and had 5 TD's last yr. Considering Morris' 7 TD's were the 2nd most for a RB, Green-Ellis' 5 weren't too bad. I am not really just talking about stats, I'm talking about a guy who comes in, does every single thing ever asked of him--and still is ripped on. WTF? Do these people just not like certain players on the team? Do they really just like the popular players like Brady and Moss? I don't get it. The only reason I think people rip on BJGE is when they make meaningless comparsions to #1 RB LoMo, then I totally get it.

But if we're not talking about LoMo, and just talking about a player coming in and doing every single thing they're asked, scoring 5 TD's, putting up multiple 100 yd games, never fumbling, etc--then why do people downplay his talents, and try to use stats etc, to try and make him look meaningless?

If we were talking about the BoSox, any average guy who came off the bench to pinch hit successfully, etc would be an average fan's dream. We'd say he's a great blue-collar guy who does what's asked, etc. But, since we're talking about the Pats a guy who does everything he's asked is looked down upon and considered a JAG etc?

Then you compare the same stats you use (3.7 ypc) and say that 2 hall of famers who have considerable same stats are 'irrelevant?' That's certainly your call, but I still don't get why people try to downplay his accomplishments. As I said, his just making this 53 man squad is a great overachieving accomplishment. If he turned the ball over, get tackled for losses, etc--then I'd understand it. What else do you really want him to do?

You say there's nothing that says he's more than replacement level last yr? How about the fact that Morris' 7 TD's were the 2nd most by a RB. Green-Ellis had 5. That's better than a replacement player, and that's a stat that proves it.

 

[PATSYLICIOUS]

Re: Law Firm (BJGE) ran pretty well yesterday too.

Averages are bull especially when you are comparing a career average vs. a guy who had 24 carries last year. That isn't even a quarter of a season for most RBs.

Then why do people knock BJGE for his avg?

I think the point was that a low avg doesn't mean everything, not to compare BJGE to George.

 

[muzz]

I like Law Firm, I think he keeps his head down and just plays the game.
No BS there.....kinda like his running....

I hope he gets more carries as the year go's on.

 

[Patspsycho]

When the Pats pulled starters, the Titans did too. We still cannot read too much from this game even against the starters. The Titans flat out quit. The ONLY player on defense who even tried was Keith Bullock.

Fisher was quoted per Mortensen that when he reviews film from Sunday, any players quitting would be benched.

I am led to believe that he shared this with the team prior to the game, to give them a fair chance.

 

[Rob0729]

Re: Law Firm (BJGE) ran pretty well yesterday too.

I am not sure exactly why using the example of a hall of fame player like Riggins, or Eddie George is 'irrelevant," but I guess it doesn't matter that much. If anything the NFL of old used even more running attacks, as it was at least just as prevelant, if not more. And it was also before the free agency era, so defenses that were good were able to use the same players yr after yr. I guess there are arguments/points to both sides, but I don't see it being 'irrelevant.'

What stat do I want to use? None. I just don't understand why many posters would put down a player or the players' use on their own team? The guy is basically a major overachiever just for making the team. He wasn't drafted, yet he came off the bench as called, did everything he was asked, had 100 yd games, has NEVER fumbled, and had 5 TD's last yr. Considering Morris' 7 TD's were the 2nd most for a RB, Green-Ellis' 5 weren't too bad. I am not really just talking about stats, I'm talking about a guy who comes in, does every single thing ever asked of him--and still is ripped on. WTF? Do these people just not like certain players on the team? Do they really just like the popular players like Brady and Moss? I don't get it. The only reason I think people rip on BJGE is when they make meaningless comparsions to #1 RB LoMo, then I totally get it.

But if we're not talking about LoMo, and just talking about a player coming in and doing every single thing they're asked, scoring 5 TD's, putting up multiple 100 yd games, never fumbling, etc--then why do people downplay his talents, and try to use stats etc, to try and make him look meaningless?

If we were talking about the BoSox, any average guy who came off the bench to pich hit successfully, etc would be an average fan's dream. We'd say he's a great blue-collar guy who does what's asked, etc. But, since we're talking about the Pats a guy who does everything he's asked is looked down upon and considered a JAG etc?

Then you compare the same stats you use (3.7 ypc) and say that 2 hall of famers who have considerable same stats are 'irrelevant?' That's certainly your call, but I still don't get why people try to downplay his accomplishments. As I said, his just making this 53 man squad is a great overachieving accomplishment. If he turned the ball over, get tackled for losses, etc--then I'd understand it. What else do you really want him to do?

Not sure why using Riggins and Eddie George is irrelevant? Well, tlet's put it it this way, by your standards, Mike Vrabel is the greatest TE of all time. Every catch Vrabel has ever caught at TE has been a TD pass. Name one TE who has had a better TD to catch ratio. Vrabel is 11 for 11 for TDs.

Eddie George had 2865 rushing attempts in his career. John Riggins had 2,915 rushing attempts in his career. Including yesterday, BJGE has had 81 rushing attempts for his career. That is like comparing Mike Vrabel for his performance at TE to Kellen Winslow Sr., Ozzie Newsome, and Shannon Sharpe.

 

[shmessy]

Re: Law Firm (BJGE) ran pretty well yesterday too.

Not sure why using Riggins and Eddie George is irrelevant? Well, tlet's put it it this way, by your standards, Mike Vrabel is the greatest TE of all time. Every catch Vrabel has ever caught at TE has been a TD pass. Name one TE who has had a better TD to catch ratio. Vrabel is 11 for 11 for TDs.

Eddie George had 2865 rushing attempts in his career. John Riggins had 2,915 rushing attempts in his career. Including yesterday, BJGE has had 81 rushing attempts for his career. That is like comparing Mike Vrabel for his performance at TE to Kellen Winslow Sr., Ozzie Newsome, and Shannon Sharpe.

You mean Doug Flutie isn't the greatest drop kick field goal kicker in the history of football?

 

[supafly]

Re: Law Firm (BJGE) ran pretty well yesterday too.

Not sure why using Riggins and Eddie George is irrelevant? Well, tlet's put it it this way, by your standards, Mike Vrabel is the greatest TE of all time. Every catch Vrabel has ever caught at TE has been a TD pass. Name one TE who has had a better TD to catch ratio. Vrabel is 11 for 11 for TDs.

Eddie George had 2865 rushing attempts in his career. John Riggins had 2,915 rushing attempts in his career. Including yesterday, BJGE has had 81 rushing attempts for his career. That is like comparing Mike Vrabel for his performance at TE to Kellen Winslow Sr., Ozzie Newsome, and Shannon Sharpe.

I get what you're saying Rob, but that's not anything close to what he said.

He said, it's irrelevant cause Riggins 'played in a different NFL.'

Not even close.

 

[Rob0729]

Re: Law Firm (BJGE) ran pretty well yesterday too.

You mean Doug Flutie isn't the greatest drop kick field goal kicker in the history of football?

Well, that is true. I guess it isn't a hard and fast rule.

 

[Rob0729]

Re: Law Firm (BJGE) ran pretty well yesterday too.

I get what you're saying Rob, but that's not anything close to what he said.

He said, it's irrelevant cause Riggins 'played in a different NFL.'

Not even close.

Well, I can't speak for others. But that is why I think you cannot compare the those players.

 

[supafly]

Re: Law Firm (BJGE) ran pretty well yesterday too.

You mean Doug Flutie isn't the greatest drop kick field goal kicker in the history of football?

I understand about the lack of established stats, etc, shmessy, and I agree that a guy playing for a yr or 2 shouldn't be compared to one who has hundreds or thousands of carries.

The respected poster in question always uses the 3.7 ypc average to try and 'downplay' what Green-Ellis has done, which isn't very fair IMO. Regardless of his #4 or #5 RB status, he's still done everything asked of him and more. When I tried to use his stats back against him, he claimed that John Riggins is 'irrelevant,' because he played in a different NFL.

I can buy the bad comparison because of lack of established stats etc, but I cannot buy that specific explanation.

 

[supafly]

Re: Law Firm (BJGE) ran pretty well yesterday too.

Well, I can't speak for others. But that is why I think you cannot compare the those players.

I agree with your explanation, and it is a correct one.

Just saying that I don't agree with his explanation etc.

If Nunn came in and did well, would we be saying the same about him? Or would we be happy to have a pretty decent backup WR? I'm not sure that people would neccessarily cut him down all the time, they'd probably be proud of his accomplishments etc.

Why isn't McGowan (my fave D player) a JAG? He was the same UDFA, but yet he comes in and does everything asked of him? What else do people want BJGE to do?

 

[shmessy]

Re: Law Firm (BJGE) ran pretty well yesterday too.

I understand about the lack of established stats, etc, shmessy, and I agree that a guy playing for a yr or 2 shouldn't be compared to one who has hundreds or thousands of carries.

The respected poster in question always uses the 3.7 ypc average to try and 'downplay' what Green-Ellis has done, which isn't very fair IMO. Regardless of his #4 or #5 RB status, he's still done everything asked of him and more. When I tried to use his stats back against him, he claimed that John Riggins is 'irrelevant,' because he played in a different NFL.

I can buy the bad comparison because of lack of established stats etc, but I cannot buy that specific explanation.

BTW, I agree with you re: BJGE. The guy has been getting the job done while he's been in there.

Also, people need to take into account that that 3.7 YPC includes SEVERAL one yard plunges for TD's and 3rd and 4th and 1's last year. The guy always seemed to be getting the clutch short yardage situations. Maroney almost NEVER gets called upon for the short yardage situations.

 

[BradyFTW!]

Re: Law Firm (BJGE) ran pretty well yesterday too.

Why isn't McGowan (my fave D player) a JAG? He was the same UDFA, but yet he comes in and does everything asked of him? What else do people want BJGE to do?

Because McGowan consistently comes in and performs exceptionally well as a starter. In order to get into the starting lineup, he passed a 2nd round pick and a multi-year starter on the depth chart. BJGE has been solid when he's played, but his achievements can't be compared to McGowan's at all. That's not to cut BJGE down to size- he's performed well enough when he's been called upon. He's still the #5 RB, though, and has only played when he has due to multiple injuries.

 

[supafly]

Re: Law Firm (BJGE) ran pretty well yesterday too.

Because McGowan consistently comes in and performs exceptionally well as a starter. In order to get into the starting lineup, he passed a 2nd round pick and a multi-year starter on the depth chart. BJGE has been solid when he's played, but his achievements can't be compared to McGowan's at all. That's not to cut BJGE down to size- he's performed well enough when he's been called upon. He's still the #5 RB, though, and has only played when he has due to multiple injuries.

Yes, that's a good explanation. I'm not sure I agree w/ the 2nd rd Chung comparison, because I expected McGowan to be first off the bench ahead of Chung. Chung is a rookie and very green to NFL speed, etc. As far as beating Sanders, we all had our opinions of him, although I have always felt that Sanders did well enough. It's because of lack of depth at the position of safety, while there is a plethora of depth at RB--that's pretty much the answer there.

But to get to starter status, one must excel at their given opportunities, and always do what they're asked + be a total team player. Everyone has to start somewhere, and what more could the guy do to deserve a chance?

 

[supafly]

Re: Law Firm (BJGE) ran pretty well yesterday too.

Because McGowan consistently comes in and performs exceptionally well as a starter. In order to get into the starting lineup, he passed a 2nd round pick and a multi-year starter on the depth chart. BJGE has been solid when he's played, but his achievements can't be compared to McGowan's at all. That's not to cut BJGE down to size- he's performed well enough when he's been called upon. He's still the #5 RB, though, and has only played when he has due to multiple injuries.

Besides go to another team, I am just wondering what in your opinion, he'd have to do to become a #2 or #3 RB?

It's almost like he's penalized for being behind established NFL veteran talent RB's. If one comes in and excels and their jobs, then they shouldn't always be compared to bad stats, etc. I wouldn't think that was fair at a regular job, nor would you, most likely. It's almost unfortunate that he'll always be penalized for having some other guys ahead of him, there's a lot of depth at the particular position.

 

[Deus Irae]

Both teams had the running games going well. I don't think people should think too much of the individual accomplishments during this game unless they form part of a trend. If LoMo/BJGE/Brady look lousy next week, for example, that will be the more important game to look at, just because of the weather situation.

Let's just enjoy the game for what it was: An ass-kicking of the Titans.