Last 5 Draft Classes

[PatsFan2]

I’m not whining at all if I was Kraft I would have fired Belichick.

• Benching Butler
• 2 poor drafts in a row
• 2 poor free agency periods
• Difficulty coaching the top 2 players on the team
• Trading Garoppolo and not making that pick a conditional first to protect against the possibility of them falling out of the top 5 in the draft
• Trading Jamie Collins for the same thing he would have received just letting him walk in UFA
• Trading Chandler Jones for a bottom the second round pick
• Giving big money to Hightower despite constant injury issues
• Giving Rex Buckhead almost the same amount of guaranteed money that the Titans gave Lewis

It is very clear that Belichick is not the coach or the team builder he once was and it is time to move on from him.

I still love the Patriots and I will watch them win or lose but if we are having a discussion about Belichick’s performance then I’m going to express my views on what I did not like, and that is not whining it is discussing the topic at hand.

Couldn't have said it any better myself B6: BB is a Great HC and motivator. But he's now got good players who are getting long in the tooth and are difficult to scheme around. Not to mention more than half our Team are UDFA and not High Draft picks. Where is the up and coming Youth?? We have never Won a SB with a crap Defense. This might be the worse one ever.

 

[PatsFan2]

This is an interesting perspective, even though some of what you say is not a complete fair judgement becasuse "bad free agency" is certainly debatable - i remember being pretty optimistic last season after FA - and is still early to see if our draft picks aren't going to pan out - although I grant you that the early results are pretty much horrible for the last 2 yeasr).

Still, the easy answer is to say that the Results outspeak your points.... Yeah, benching Butler might have lost us the game, but he still got us there and almost there every single year. It is also true that Brady/BB Gm/BB Coach are all so connected it is impossible to say for certain who is responsible for this run of success.

We'll see... I think this next game is crucial. The result is less important than how we play, too

I going 60/40 Brady this Team wouldn't be nearly as successful without him. Brady covered up a lot of deficiencies on this Team that's a fact BB disciples. It's a shame with all $$$$ he saved the Team BB the GM couldn't give him a better arsenal of Receivers.

 

[HailHydra]

BB the trading GM is one of the best. BB the drafting GM is mediocre.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

Couldn't have said it any better myself B6: BB is a Great HC and motivator. But he's now got good players who are getting long in the tooth and are difficult to scheme around. Not to mention more than half our Team are UDFA and not High Draft picks. Where is the up and coming Youth?? We have never Won a SB with a crap Defense. This might be the worse one ever.

BB the trading GM is one of the best. BB the drafting GM is mediocre.

This is ignoring about 15 years of evidence to the contrary. The Patriots are among the very best - if not the best - drafting team in NFL since 2000, despite constantly having the worst draft position.

The question is: what explanation is there for the draft returns from 2014-18. Is Belichick failing to adapt to scouting methods? Is the scouting department doing something wrong? Or is is this just the normal ups and downs and we happen to be in a down? One thing that’s for sure is this by far the longest period and most bare return of the era.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Like I said nice players.

Eventually the patriots are going to suck. That’s the way the league is designed. The lower you pick the harder it is to find those game changing impact players because they are few and far between after the first round

If the context of this discussion is to create the narrative "BB sucks at drafting", nailing starters in the 4th round runs counter to that argument.

 

[JayNM]

I going 60/40 Brady this Team wouldn't be nearly as successful without him. Brady covered up a lot of deficiencies on this Team that's a fact BB disciples. It's a shame with all $$$$ he saved the Team BB the GM couldn't give him a better arsenal of Receivers.

It's 100% speculation and whatever you want to believe could be true. There is no contrafactual

 

[DarrylS]

That's not what the data is showing. It's showing that they've drafted a lot of players that are no longer on the team for one reason or another. Some are just bad luck injuries, some are willful subtractions (trades) and, yes, some are outright busts. To say that the pretty high number of players drafted in the last 3 years, let's say, hasn't effected the team right now, this year, is disingenuous.

It means little if there is no comparison to other upper echelon teams.. the point being that the draft is one way to build a team, when the Pats pick at number 30+ a player that has some injury issues who should have been chosen earlier becomes attractive to the Patriots...

Every team has hits and misses, the view in this thread is a tad myopic...

Compare to the Browns who have had high draft picks for quite a while now, one might think they should be powerhouses...

 

[PatsFan2]

It's 100% speculation and whatever you want to believe could be true. There is no contrafactual

Brady is the GOAT for a reason I do not think BB the HC/GM win Five SB's with Brian Hoyer or anybody else not named Brady at QB.

 

[DarrylS]

That's not what the data is showing. It's showing that they've drafted a lot of players that are no longer on the team for one reason or another. Some are just bad luck injuries, some are willful subtractions (trades) and, yes, some are outright busts. To say that the pretty high number of players drafted in the last 3 years, let's say, hasn't effected the team right now, this year, is disingenuous.

Alone this comment means nothing there needs to be a comparison to other teams with similar records and similar drafting positions..

When you pick at #30+, or that jackass Goodell takes a pick away the value is usually not there, ergo the tendency for BB to pick "risky" players who might make it..

 

[DarrylS]

Brady is the GOAT for a reason I do not think BB the HC/GM win Five SB's with Brian Hoyer or anybody else not named Brady at QB.

Speculation, as much as I am a fanboy of Brady.. no one really knows if something different may have worked out.. Jimmy Garapolo or a comparable player for example..

 

[PatsFan2]

This is ignoring about 15 years of evidence to the contrary. The Patriots are among the very best - if not the best - drafting team in NFL since 2000, despite constantly having the worst draft position.

The question is: what explanation is there for the draft returns from 2014-18. Is Belichick failing to adapt to scouting methods? Is the scouting department doing something wrong? Or is is this just the normal ups and downs and we happen to be in a down? One thing that’s for sure is this by far the longest period and most bare return of the era.

Sorry Ice I am not into writing long posts but I mentioned earlier in this or another thread ... that the Easley horrible selection was like a domino effect of one bad selection after another. At that time the McCourty's - C. Jones - Hightower and Collins were still in their primes. Teams build through the Draft we are building via UDFA some of those players are undrafted for a reason.

 

[fightingirish595]

If the context of this discussion is to create the narrative "BB sucks at drafting", nailing starters in the 4th round runs counter to that argument.

I’m definitely not saying he sucks at drafting maybe other people are. I’m not.

 

[PatsFan2]

Speculation, as much as I am a fanboy of Brady.. no one really knows if something different may have worked out.. Jimmy Garapolo or a comparable player for example..

Love Jimmy G. hated that BB the GM basically gave him away. But Jimmy G could be a Hightower of QB's a guy who kinda always get hurt. Jimmy got a lot of $$$$ for a small sample size. That said I wish him the very best and a speedy recovery.

 

[HailHydra]

This is ignoring about 15 years of evidence to the contrary. The Patriots are among the very best - if not the best - drafting team in NFL since 2000, despite constantly having the worst draft position.

The question is: what explanation is there for the draft returns from 2014-18. Is Belichick failing to adapt to scouting methods? Is the scouting department doing something wrong? Or is is this just the normal ups and downs and we happen to be in a down? One thing that’s for sure is this by far the longest period and most bare return of the era.

Sure, Belichick was very good at drafting in the early rounds back then. Now, he's become very poor at it.

 

[luuked]

Giving Rex Buckhead almost the same amount of guaranteed money that the Titans gave Lewis

Burkhead (5.5m) got closer to 50% of the money that Lewis (8.25m) got guaranteed. ********.

Giving big money to Hightower despite constant injury issues

He got that contract coming off rescuing two SBs for us at a point where he didn't miss more than a handful of games in a span of 4-5 years. Hindsight ********

Trading Chandler Jones for a bottom the second round pick

Highest return for a DE in the last 5 years in the league until Mack came along. For ONE year of a player that would not have been extended here. What makes it even more hysterical is that Flowers is a better player for the Patriots and has contributed to this team in 2 years more than Jones did in 4.

Trading Jamie Collins for the same thing he would have received just letting him walk in UFA

A comp pick is nothing certain and it would have been canclled out by Clayborn this year. On a sidenote without the trade of Collins and Jones there would have not been enough cap room to trade for a player like Gilmore. Just to kickstart your brain about how things are connected sometimes.

And I will stop right there. Because yes it is the time to fire the coach who got you to the ****ing SB 3 times out of 4 years.

Stable geniuses like you would have most probably be pissed at BB not taking a timeout in SB49 even though he absolutely nailed the situation and more or less won us the game mind****ing the Seahawks into throwing the ball.

You guys are amazing. I wish you all 20 years of irrelevance like the Browns had except you would not care because you like most of the fair weather fans will just tune out and watch something else once things really get tough.

Fire one of the greatest coaches of all time because he only reached the SB twice in the last two years and dared to only win it once. Get out of here.

 

[Brady6]

This is ignoring about 15 years of evidence to the contrary. The Patriots are among the very best - if not the best - drafting team in NFL since 2000, despite constantly having the worst draft position.

The question is: what explanation is there for the draft returns from 2014-18. Is Belichick failing to adapt to scouting methods? Is the scouting department doing something wrong? Or is is this just the normal ups and downs and we happen to be in a down? One thing that’s for sure is this by far the longest period and most bare return of the era.

Or maybe the Belichick is the Phil Jackson of the NFL.

 

[Brady6]

Burkhead (5.5m) got closer to 50% of the money that Lewis (8.25m) got guaranteed. ********.

Rex Burkhead

Dion Lewis

Total guaranteed at signing is nearly the same.

He got that contract coming off rescuing two SBs for us at a point where he didn't miss more than a handful of games in a span of 4-5 years. Hindsight ********

He hasn’t played 16 games since 2013. A handful of games? Try 11 games missed in the 3 previous years.

Highest return for a DE in the last 5 years in the league until Mack came along. For ONE year of a player that would not have been extended here. What makes it even more hysterical is that Flowers is a better player for the Patriots and has contributed to this team in 2 years more than Jones did in 4.

You’re an idiot if you think that was a good return for Chandler Jones. You are an even bigger idiot if you think Flowers is a better player than Jones.

You are a terrible poster who just rattles off excuses for everything and hypes up all things patriots while diminishing any player who isn’t. The fact is if Kraft fires Belichick tomorrow you would be on this forum talking about how it was the best thing and Belichick was not what he used to be. You are a flag you blow whatever direction the wind is going. Just stop quoting my posts I would rather talk to someone capable of a legitimate discussion than some puppet who doesn’t even know his facts.

The best QB in the NFL led his team to the Super Bowl in 3 of last 4 years. You sit here and act like Belichick won a super bowl with his backup QB when he really lost a SB to a backup QB.

 

[Boomer B]

Here's how I see a draft breakdown since Belichick took over

2000 - 2004

Hall of Fame Type Player

Tom Brady
Richard Seymour
Vince Wilfork

Pro Bowl Level Player

Matt Light
Asante Samuel

Above Average Player

Deion Branch
Dan Koppen
Ty Warren
David Givens

2005 - 2009

Pro Bowl Level Player

Logan Mankins
Stephen Gostkowski

Above Average Player

Jerod Mayo
Sebastian Vollmer
Julian Edelman
Patrick Chung
Matthew Slater

2010 - 2014

Hall of Fame Level Player

Rob Gronkowski

Pro Bowl Level Player

Chandler Jones
Devin McCourty

Above Average Player

Nate Solder
Dont'a Hightower
Aaron Hernandez
James White
Jimmy Garoppolo

2015 - 2018

Above Average Player

Trey Flowers
Shaq Mason

Belichick's drafts from 2000 - 2005 varied from solid to fantastic. 2006 - 2008 were decent. He came back with a vengeance from 2009 to 2012. Great drafts. 2013 - 2015 were decent. 2016 - 2017 look really really bad. 2018 to be determined.

We had 3 Hall of Fame type draft picks in Belichick's early years on top of a lot of other solid picks. A big part of the first 3 Super Bowls along with some of the talent already on the team and some good FA picks ups.

The great drafts from 2009 - 2012 really lifted us during the last few Super Bowl's as guys like Edleman, Gronk, McCourty, Hightower, Chung, Jones, Solder, etc.. were all on the upswing or hitting their prime.

We swung badly in 2016 - 2017. The only starter from those drafts is Joe Thuney and he is average at best. Still hope for D. Wise to pan out. I really hope 2018 was a return to form for Bill. We need to see him nail the next few drafts.

 

[TheRainMaker]

Highest return for a DE in the last 5 years in the league until Mack came along. For ONE year of a player that would not have been extended here. What makes it even more hysterical is that Flowers is a better player for the Patriots and has contributed to this team in 2 years more than Jones did in 4.

You really can’t be serious with this one. You want a mulligan on that? As much as I didn’t like Jones’ disappearing act, there’s no question he is better than Flowers.

Or maybe the Belichick is the Phil Jackson of the NFL.

I was thinking the same thing. Nobody maximized talent better than Phil Jackson. But he was an awful talent evaluator. In his first year with the Lakers, he didn’t think Kobe Bryant was a good fit and agreed to send him to the Suns for Jason Kidd and Shaun Marion but Jerry Buss thankfully stepped in and didn’t allow it. They had extremely poor drafts with the Lakers that led to their eventual demise in 2003.

 

[Bruins29]

Here's how I see a draft breakdown since Belichick took over

2000 - 2004

Hall of Fame Type Player

Tom Brady
Richard Seymour
Vince Wilfork

Pro Bowl Level Player

Matt Light
Asante Samuel

Above Average Player

Deion Branch
Dan Koppen
Ty Warren
David Givens

2005 - 2009

Pro Bowl Level Player

Logan Mankins
Stephen Gostkowski

Above Average Player

Jerod Mayo
Sebastian Vollmer
Julian Edelman
Patrick Chung
Matthew Slater

2010 - 2014

Hall of Fame Level Player

Rob Gronkowski

Pro Bowl Level Player

Chandler Jones
Devin McCourty

Above Average Player

Nate Solder
Dont'a Hightower
Aaron Hernandez
James White
Jimmy Garoppolo

2015 - 2018

Above Average Player

Trey Flowers
Shaq Mason

Belichick's drafts from 2000 - 2005 varied from solid to fantastic. 2006 - 2008 were decent. He came back with a vengeance from 2009 to 2012. Great drafts. 2013 - 2015 were decent. 2016 - 2017 look really really bad. 2018 to be determined.

We had 3 Hall of Fame type draft picks in Belichick's early years on top of a lot of other solid picks. A big part of the first 3 Super Bowls along with some of the talent already on the team and some good FA picks ups.

The great drafts from 2009 - 2012 really lifted us during the last few Super Bowl's as guys like Edleman, Gronk, McCourty, Hightower, Chung, Jones, Solder, etc.. were all on the upswing or hitting their prime.

We swung badly in 2016 - 2017. The only starter from those drafts is Joe Thuney and he is average at best. Still hope for D. Wise to pan out. I really hope 2018 was a return to form for Bill. We need to see him nail the next few drafts.

Boomer. Good post. I would add Collins as at least an above avg player to 13. He did make a probowl in 15 also. Warren is also prob closer to a pro bowl player even though he only went to one pro bowl. Slater is absolutely a pro bowl player. He is a 7x pro bowl and 4x AP.

Also Ghost could go to the hall if he keeps his stats stable.