Justin Coleman

[manxman2601]

I like the front 7, but do not pretend the secondary is anything better than mediocre or bad. A team will decide to throw on the patriots and we will all hold our breath while hoping the front 7 can force the QB into a bad throw

If PFF is to be believed we have 3 of the top 5 safeties in coverage.

 

[Oswlek]

I like the front 7, but do not pretend the secondary is anything better than mediocre or bad. A team will decide to throw on the patriots and we will all hold our breath while hoping the front 7 can force the QB into a bad throw

Is it your contention that receivers are wide open on every play and quarterbacks just aren't hitting them?

 

[patsinthesnow]

How is the secondary mediocre with the best safety trio in the NFL and a CB with this type of talent?



Opposing QBR, PPG, YPG, etc. suggest that we have a very good pass D.

 

[Nunchucks]

Is it your contention that receivers are wide open on every play and quarterbacks just aren't hitting them?

Interesting hyperbolie.

 

[Oswlek]

Interesting hyperbolie.

No hyperbole at all on my part. If you feel that way, then I'd be interested in hearing how that contradicts with your prior posts.

 

[Nunchucks]

No hyperbole at all on my part. If you feel that way, then I'd be interested in hearing how that contradicts with your prior posts.

Receivers in general are not all wide open on every play, but they are getting open. Like that pass Weeden threw to a wide open Williams in the end zone...he just flat out missed it. Better Qbs make those throws.

I am just giving a honest assessment of the secondary. They have a hard time covering receivers. Use your eyes, what do they tell you?

 

[sevengables_2207]

He is the guy everyone picks on after they get tired of abusing butler

Translation: "I don't care and I can't stand it!"

 

[sevengables_2207]

Receivers in general are not all wide open on every play, but they are getting open. Like that pass Weeden threw to a wide open Williams in the end zone...he just flat out missed it. Better Qbs make those throws.

I am just giving a honest assessment of the secondary. They have a hard time covering receivers. Use your eyes, what do they tell you?

I saw quite a few open receivers for the Packers against the Broncos last Sunday night. Just sayin'...

 

[Oswlek]

Receivers in general are not all wide open on every play, but they are getting open. Like that pass Weeden threw to a wide open Williams in the end zone...he just flat out missed it. Better Qbs make those throws.

I am just giving a honest assessment of the secondary. They have a hard time covering receivers. Use your eyes, what do they tell you?

Yes, that was a terrible play by both Butler and Weeden, though the fact that it was 30-6 and 4th down late in the 4th quarter might have influenced things a bit.

My eyes tell me that the secondary is about average, which is a win all things considered. What gives me the most promise is that appear to coordinate well with each other for such a young group.

 

[Oswlek]

I saw quite a few open receivers for the Packers against the Broncos last Sunday night. Just sayin'...

They were pretty damn good against the Packers, but in previous games the Broncos had at least a dozen plays (each) where I saw burnt coverage being saved by good pressure. Even great secondaries (I'm not sold that Denver applies) can't cover everyone all the time.

 

[sevengables_2207]

They were pretty damn good against the Packers, but in previous games the Broncos had at least a dozen plays (each) where I saw burnt coverage being saved by good pressure. Even great secondaries (I'm not sold that Denver applies) can't cover everyone all the time.

I think the performance was further underscored by Rodgers extremely poor pocket presence.

Furthermore, the Broncos offense looked surprisingly good (for them) once the Packers starting corners and Clay Matthews went out with injuries, which forced the Packers to play one dimensionally with the dimension that was failing from the beginning of the game.

 

[RobertWeathers]

How is the secondary mediocre with the best safety trio in the NFL and a CB with this type of talent?



Opposing QBR, PPG, YPG, etc. suggest that we have a very good pass D.

Ummmm excuse me, did someone hack off Brandon Browner at the knees?

At least the dude cut his fingernails.

 

[RobertWeathers]

If PFF is to be believed we have 3 of the top 5 safeties in coverage.

I don't believe what PFF tells me at all.

What I do believe is that DMC is a damn good cover safety but a very average coverage CB.

I believe Harmon is an outstanding deep/middle FS. His anticipation of plays and instincts has really improved this year. Hes always been able to go sideline to sideline.

Chung has been excellent this year. I still don't trust him in man to man anything beyond 15 yards but it is what it is.

All three are excellent tacklers.

 

[Marqui]

I don't believe what PFF tells me at all.

What I do believe is that DMC is a damn good cover safety but a very average coverage CB.

I believe Harmon is an outstanding deep/middle FS. His anticipation of plays and instincts has really improved this year. Hes always been able to go sideline to sideline.

Chung has been excellent this year. I still don't trust him in man to man anything beyond 15 yards but it is what it is.

All three are excellent tacklers.

I don't know if Harmon is an "excellent" tackler.

 

[RobertWeathers]

I don't know if Harmon is an "excellent" tackler.

I've noticed him make a few open field tackles this year that in years past he would have whiffed on.

For a SS he is below average.

For a FS he is excellent.

Thats the way I look at it.

Here is a little more background. Something he apparently has been putting a decent amount of effort into.

Sunday notes: Harmon tackling a bigger role for Patriots

 

[Oswlek]

I don't believe what PFF tells me at all.

What I do believe is that DMC is a damn good cover safety but a very average coverage CB.

I believe Harmon is an outstanding deep/middle FS. His anticipation of plays and instincts has really improved this year. Hes always been able to go sideline to sideline.

Chung has been excellent this year. I still don't trust him in man to man anything beyond 15 yards but it is what it is.

All three are excellent tacklers.

PFF is crap, but every now and again they get stuff right, this being one of those cases. McCourty actually plays a lot of CB and does well at it, and Chung is on deep coverage more than you probably think (usually because his guy ran a longer route). Hell, he was the guy NE tabbed to take TY Hilton against Indy. You don't hear Bill often single out a player and take the blame for his mistakes. I suspect much of the negative rhetoric about him is rooted more in 2011/2012 than in how he's performed since returning.

 

[RobertWeathers]

PFF is crap, but every now and again they get stuff right, this being one of those cases. McCourty actually plays a lot of CB and does well at it, and Chung is on deep coverage more than you probably think (usually because his guy ran a longer route). Hell, he was the guy NE tabbed to take TY Hilton against Indy. You don't hear Bill often single out a player and take the blame for his mistakes. I suspect much of the negative rhetoric about him is rooted more in 2011/2012 than in how he's performed since returning.

Yep.

DMC has been in coverage but not as much on the long routes. He typically moves up in the nickle and dime and Harmon stays back.

Yes on Hilton. Chung manhandled him. The book on TY is that he can be roughed up. Hes smallish.

 

[jah]

How is the secondary mediocre with the best safety trio in the NFL and a CB with this type of talent?



Opposing QBR, PPG, YPG, etc. suggest that we have a very good pass D.

But some guy on this thread said Butler got abused all game long (until they move onto Coleman, of course). So isn't Butler bad or something?

 

[VrabelJr]

Yep.

DMC has been in coverage but not as much on the long routes. He typically moves up in the nickle and dime and Harmon stays back.

Yes on Hilton. Chung manhandled him. The book on TY is that he can be roughed up. Hes smallish.

I think we will do something similar to DeSean Jackson. You just need to get your hands on that squirmy little guy!

 

[VrabelJr]

Denver's secondary is strong at CB, weak at Safety (Ward is overrated).
Our secondary is strong at Safety, weak to average at CB

The good thing for us is:

- Bad CB play is much more easily masked by Fantastic Safety play than the other way around. See: 2000s Steelers and Ravens
- Our CBs are insanely young and will only get better as the year goes on.
- Bad CB play results in WRs getting yards, bad Safety play results in TEs getting yards and long rushing plays.