Jonathan Kraft On Felger and Mazz last night [October 2009 thread]

[capetide]

Re: Jonathan Kraft On Felger and Mazz Last Night

Right - there's a REASON why they're doing what they're doing... there's a reason they do everything when it comes to cap, salary and player management.

We don't have to agree with what they're doing from a fan's perspective, but from a buisness management standpoint I'm sure it makes sense.

The reasoning could also be that this allows them the ability to spend money when a golden opportunity or major need presents itself ... i.e. they've got the organization and buisness on a 5 year plan that factors in a large bonus for Brady and the need to remain frugal until there's a sure fire opportunity to improve the team with a big Free Agent spending spree.

In the long term it makes for a stronger team... but if you only live in the "now" as a fan you're sure to be disappointed.

The bottom line is,,, if Felger ran the Pats, they would become the Redskins.

 

[Joker]

Re: Jonathan Kraft On Felger and Mazz Last Night

The bottom line is,,, if Felger ran the Pats, they would become the Redskins.

No they wouldn't...they'd become the Provincetown Featherlight Loafers of the Coastal Twinky League.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Re: Jonathan Kraft On Felger and Mazz Last Night

No they wouldn't...they'd become the Provincetown Featherlight Loafers of the Coastal Twinky League.

I'm been laughing at this post for the past 10 minutes...

Well done.

 

[Wolfpack]

Re: Jonathan Kraft On Felger and Mazz Last Night

1) Felger shows he either doesn't understand the cap or is deliberately misleading people - or probably some combination of the two.

2) By his own demented logic, the Redskins are the best team in the league. Anyone want to go to a Redskins fan forum to see how delightfully happy their fans are with ownership?

3) Ya know what? I don't give a flaming frack how much the Patriots spend on payroll. They are unquestioningly the Team of the Decade, and looking to make another run this year. Wins and losses are the only numbers I care about.

 

[shmessy]

Re: Jonathan Kraft On Felger and Mazz Last Night

No they wouldn't...they'd become the Provincetown Featherlight Loafers of the Coastal Twinky League.

Same thing.

 

[Pats726]

Re: Jonathan Kraft On Felger and Mazz Last Night

1) Felger shows he either doesn't understand the cap or is deliberately misleading people - or probably some combination of the two.

2) By his own demented logic, the Redskins are the best team in the league. Anyone want to go to a Redskins fan forum to see how delightfully happy their fans are with ownership?

3) Ya know what? I don't give a flaming frack how much the Patriots spend on payroll. They are unquestioningly the Team of the Decade, and looking to make another run this year. Wins and losses are the only numbers I care about.

1) I think there's a third option..that he just wishes to promote himself..he doesn't understand the cap...and he's misleading people..why?? to promote himself as the know it all of Boston sports. He KNOWs better..even though he's done nothing..
2) He doesn't HAVE a favorite team..it's all negative..so..he loves all the teams..pin him down and he'll squirm and not answer....he knows teh REdskins are far far NOT the best...
3) I agree and that is what IS important..teh proof is in teh pudding...but not only does Felger not care what it tastes like..he's attacking the Iron Chefs of the NFL when he himself can't find the stove or can understand any cook book.

 

[FredFromDartmouth]

Re: Jonathan Kraft On Felger and Mazz Last Night

Why does Kraft put up with Felger??? Jonathan please switch to Zo or Damon; these are sane people who know football and are not nasty & demented.

 

[FredFromDartmouth]

Re: Jonathan Kraft On Felger and Mazz Last Night

That was funny about the Sox comment.

It aggrevated me that Felger kept interrupting Jonathan and didn't let him finish this thoughts. God sakes.

It was funny when Jonathan said, "I'm sure your listeners don't want to hear about all the ins and outs of the salary cap". WRONG!

Right!!! I hate salary cap talk; it is something that sport show host love to blather on about because it is a LOT easier than going over film and analyzing player. CAP talk is something that appeals to fat lazy sports reporters because they don't have expend too much mental energy thinking about the intricacies of football.

I also hate CAP talk because it is just sooooo boring. Blah blah blah. The worst is WEEI (they are the worst for everything) with their endless (and almost always pointless) FA baseball talk. They have started already their 4 month drivel because god-forbid they talk about the Patriots..

 

[E Belichick Unum]

Re: Jonathan Kraft On Felger and Mazz Last Night

Another point- from the same source, it was actually Jonathan who lobbied Robert for BB to be hired. Apparantly, Jonathan and BB hit it off very well when he was here in 96.

In the case of the spending, word on the street was that BB was POs thatthat Jonathan was, in Bills assesement, "telling him to shop at Building 19".

When it became obvious that Pete Carrol was gone I talked to a guy who was an executive in the organization. He was pushing for Butch Davis but he told me that Robert Kraft really liked Belichick. Told me that they used to talk football with each other all the time.

God, can you imagine of Kraft had hired Butch Davis?

 

[Gwedd]

Re: Jonathan Kraft On Felger and Mazz Last Night

Why does Kraft put up with Felger??? Jonathan please switch to Zo or Damon; these are sane people who know football and are not nasty & demented.

Judging from the reactions, I'd say that Jonathan knew exactly what he was doing with Felger. If you want people to understand what a dipstick Felger is, just give him a platform like JK did, and let him run his mouth. Felger didn't disappoint, being the chucklehead he is, and I think that that was jest what Jonathan wanted.

 

[Gwedd]

Re: Jonathan Kraft On Felger and Mazz Last Night

God, can you imagine of Kraft had hired Butch Davis?

Yes, I can imagine. We'd be New England's version of the Cleveland Browns.

 

[fgssand]

Re: Jonathan Kraft On Felger and Mazz Last Night

Felger's of the opinion that the Patriots are trying to keep the actual payroll a lot lower than it appears on the cap, and that the team is looking to spend only about $100 million dollars on player salaries. He's able to pull up some data to make his point seem plausible.

Kraft and company can deny that all they want, or they can explain it a way in whatever manner suits them, but the actual dollars spent in recent years has not been "to the cap", which is what Felger is calling them out on. I'm not saying that they should be spending each and every dollar up to the cap, because I don't think it's wise to do so every season, but Felger's argument does have at least a grain of truth in it.

When your team gets younger and is built through the draft - doesn't it follow that your payroll is lower than it was in a veteran / free agent team like 2007??

We want to get younger and faster, don't we?

 

[Deus Irae]

Re: Jonathan Kraft On Felger and Mazz Last Night

When your team gets younger and is built through the draft - doesn't it follow that your payroll is lower than it was in a veteran / free agent team like 2007??

No

We want to get younger and faster, don't we?

No. You want to get better. Younger/older, Faster/slower... it doesn't matter.

 

[spacecrime]

Re: Jonathan Kraft On Felger and Mazz Last Night

This is not true. They have deliberately manipulated the cap to push money into later years. That's not spending all the cap room. I'm not complaining about the maneuver, but it does need to be pointed out in response to posts such as yours. The Patriots have used gimmicks like the LBTE to play games with the so-called hard cap.

Yes, but this only shows that the Pats are willing to spend MORE money, not less.

When a team has unused cap money, it can do one of two things:
A) Let it expire and not use it, or
B) Spend it on something, anything, or
C) Use a loophole to money the money to the next year when you can spend it.

Either B) or C) is spending all you can. That the Pats one of them - you are saying C) - shows that the Pats intend to spend as much as they possibly can.

And I agree. Rather than not spend the money and pocket it, they move it forward to a year where it can be spent more effectively.

 

[Deus Irae]

Re: Jonathan Kraft On Felger and Mazz Last Night

Yes, but this only shows that the Pats are willing to spend MORE money, not less.

When a team has unused cap money, it can do one of two things:
A) Let it expire and not use it, or
B) Spend it on something, anything, or
C) Use a loophole to money the money to the next year when you can spend it.

Either B) or C) is spending all you can. That the Pats one of them - you are saying C) - shows that the Pats intend to spend as much as they possibly can.

And I agree. Rather than not spend the money and pocket it, they move it forward to a year where it can be spent more effectively.

Studies have shown that the Patriots were #10 in actual spending from 2004-2008 and, according to Gasper, if you go for the past 5 seasons:

Over the past five years the Patriots are in the top 16 in the NFL in actual dollars paid out to players -- or straight cash, homey, as Moss would say -- at $540 million.

http://www.boston.com/sports/columnists/gasper/2010/02/patriots_remain.html

In fact, the one season during that time where success was achieved at almost the highest level was 2007, when the team went on a spending spree that brought in Welker, Moss, Thomas, et al., and kept Samuel in the fold via the franchise tag.

The notion of "spent more effectively" is certainly questionable if you look at the past 5 seasons.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

Re: Jonathan Kraft On Felger and Mazz Last Night

In fact, the one season during that time where success was achieved at almost the highest level was 2007, when the team went on a spending spree that brought in Welker, Moss, Thomas, et al., and kept Samuel in the fold via the franchise tag.

The notion of "spent more effectively" is certainly questionable if you look at the past 5 seasons.

Welker is and was dirt cheap for what he brought to the fold. Moss took a pay cut to come to NE. Hardly a spending spree.

 

[Deus Irae]

Re: Jonathan Kraft On Felger and Mazz Last Night

Welker is and was dirt cheap for what he brought to the fold. Moss took a pay cut to come to NE. Hardly a spending spree.

Moss still cost plenty. Welker was still pricier than a 2nd round pick, and Thomas was the top defensive free agent on the market. It's telling that the season where the cash was spent (and spent wisely) became a season for the ages.

I didn't bring up 2007 to bash the team. I don't think they've been 'cheap'. I do think they've occasionally overvalued the system and undervalued the players, but that's not the same as being cheap.

However, the reality is that a top 5 revenue team has not spent in the top 5 in player salaries. That opens up the door for those who wish to bring up the 'cheapness' issue. There are reasons for that, naturally, but those become part of the discussion, as opposed to being overwhelming justification.

 

[emoney_33]

Re: Jonathan Kraft On Felger and Mazz Last Night

Yes, but this only shows that the Pats are willing to spend MORE money, not less.

When a team has unused cap money, it can do one of two things:
A) Let it expire and not use it, or
B) Spend it on something, anything, or
C) Use a loophole to money the money to the next year when you can spend it.

Either B) or C) is spending all you can. That the Pats one of them - you are saying C) - shows that the Pats intend to spend as much as they possibly can.

And I agree. Rather than not spend the money and pocket it, they move it forward to a year where it can be spent more effectively.

This thread is full of people trying to explain that over the long term it's impossible to spend more than the cap. Some people won't listen, they'll just rehash the tired old nitpicked window of 04-08 or any other fraction of evidence that may superficially support their argument.

 

[emoney_33]

Re: Jonathan Kraft On Felger and Mazz Last Night

Moss still cost plenty. Welker was still pricier than a 2nd round pick, and Thomas was the top defensive free agent on the market. It's telling that the season where the cash was spent (and spent wisely) became a season for the ages.

I didn't bring up 2007 to bash the team. I don't think they've been 'cheap'. I do think they've occasionally overvalued the system and undervalued the players, but that's not the same as being cheap.

Moss cost like $3M in 2007, he wasn't expensive until he was extended. Welker made less than Sammy Morris who was IR'd. Colvin whose cost was amongst the highest in "actual money spent" was IR'd.

Please tell me exactly how 2007 proves your "cash spent" argument? The entire bonus to Thomas goes to "cash spent" for 2007.