John Clayton having trouble with reality

[Deus Irae]

No, it hasn't been lost. The battle was never really started.

It was lost precisely because the Patriots never took the battlefield. It's over. At this point, all that can be done is to try and see that history gets it right, because the living generations will die "knowing" what happened, regardless of how often we show them the correct info.

 

[patfanken]

ahem...I already AM doing something about it, Ken.

The key to everything is Kensil. He is the green rat in the cheese factory.

OK, if you think Kensil is the key then what are you doing about it and can I or anyone else here can do to help

 

[Tunescribe]

It was lost precisely because the Patriots never took the battlefield. It's over. At this point, all that can be done is to try and see that history gets it right, because the living generations will die "knowing" what happened, regardless of how often we show them the correct info.

Kraft's acquiescence on this, to me, remains a big mystery. Perhaps he willingly took the big fall to keep his rookie commissioner from looking bad, but even then it makes no sense considering the price paid and lasting damage to the franchise's image. Barring info we know nothing about, the team made a colossal mistake not airing this publicly.

 

[Steve102]

I really try to avoid ESPN if at all possible. Monday Night football is pretty much my lone exception, or perhaps the occasional college football game. I have not watched sports center or read articles by their talking heads for some time. They are more about the Entertainment than they are the Sports Programming Network. Its a shame that they are more about clicks and views than they are quality news reporting.

 

[Joker]

"An attorney, an accountant, a business adviser or realtor cannot represent two parties in a dispute and must avoid even the appearance of conflict. He/she may not join with a client in business without making full disclosure of his/her potential conflicts, he/she must avoid commingling funds with the client, and never, never take a position adverse to the customer."

http://www.si.com/nfl/2015/01/26/nfl-mike-kensil-deflategate

Mike Kensil, the driving force behind Deflategate. His father was TEAM PRESIDENT of the NY Jets for 11 years. Kensil himself worked for the Jets for 20 years until leaving to become Roger Goodell's hatchet man in 2006. His hatred of Bill Belichick is well documented in the press, given BB';s departure from the Jets.

THIS is the man behind the man, BOTH former Jet employees, that attacked and attempted to CRIPPLE the NY Jets primary rival in their division. There is no way on God's green earth that ANY person in appropriate authority would ever allow a Lee Iacocca to sit in absolute judgement of GM or Ford. NEVER in eternity should a Roger Goodell , and more to the point, a Mike Kensil ,have been allowed to summarly judge the NEP and exact any form of punitive damages.

I have written to my congressmen and to the Federal Trade commission and I will continue to do so.

 

[Bobsyouruncle]

Kraft's acquiescence on this, to me, remains a big mystery. Perhaps he willingly took the big fall to keep his rookie commissioner from looking bad, but even then it makes no sense considering the price paid and lasting damage to the franchise's image. Barring info we know nothing about, the team made a colossal mistake not airing this publicly.

I agree, I think they went with the tried and true tactic of ignoring it and letting it die. Feed it and you create more stories. Does anyone know about shoulder gate? That scandal was gone a month after it started.

But they were wrong because that was a tactic for the pre-internet era. This could be a longer diatribe but the short answer is that a new tactic is needed. Rather than typing into an echo chamber we can be more productive. We can complain about the fact that everyone can get a voice out on the Internet and quality has gone down, but then ignore that it's a double edged sword. We can get stuff out almost as easily as everyone else like Clayton. And IMO we should.

 

[shmessy]

Any possible connection between BB and Hoffa's disappearance was debunked when Old Giants Stadium was demolished in 2010 and the end zones were excavated. You'd have better luck linking BB with D. B. Cooper.

Wrong. Who do you think worked at the old Giants stadium for a combined 8+ years?

Yeah.....

 

[Tunescribe]

"An attorney, an accountant, a business adviser or realtor cannot represent two parties in a dispute and must avoid even the appearance of conflict. He/she may not join with a client in business without making full disclosure of his/her potential conflicts, he/she must avoid commingling funds with the client, and never, never take a position adverse to the customer."

http://www.si.com/nfl/2015/01/26/nfl-mike-kensil-deflategate

Mike Kensil, the driving force behind Deflategate. His father was TEAM PRESIDENT of the NY Jets for 11 years. Kensil himself worked for the Jets for 20 years until leaving to become Roger Goodell's hatchet man in 2006. His hatred of Bill Belichick is well documented in the press, given BB';s departure from the Jets.

THIS is the man behind the man, BOTH former Jet employees, that attacked and attempted to CRIPPLE the NY Jets primary rival in their division. There is no way on God's green earth that ANY person in appropriate authority would ever allow a Lee Iacocca to sit in absolute judgement of GM or Ford. NEVER in eternity should a Roger Goodell , and more to the point, a Mike Kensil ,have been allowed to summarly judge the NEP and exact any form of punitive damages.

I have written to my congressmen and to the Federal Trade commission and I will continue to do so.

The New Jersey Green Beans as agitators behind cameragate AND deflategate. Should this surprise anyone? Also consider the timing of deflategate, coming shortly after the Patriots asked the league to look into Woody Johnson's tampering with Darrelle Revis. And I still believe Harbaugh and Pagano conspired (with Irsay's blessing) to embarrass the Patriots and Brady after Baltimore was embarrassed in the playoffs. This stuff is so damn dirty.

 

[patfanken]

It was lost precisely because the Patriots never took the battlefield. It's over. At this point, all that can be done is to try and see that history gets it right, because the living generations will die "knowing" what happened, regardless of how often we show them the correct info.

What you state is true, but when you state "all you can do is try.....", I'm looking for the specifics that we all can do. For almost 8 years, as a fan base, all we have done is whine about the error in perception and the injustice and complain about it.

I no longer care about who's fault it is that we are in this position. What we need to do now is to help correct it and get the full truth out. Now I fully understand that we aren't guiltless in this. Even if you truly ARE smarter than the rest of your playmates, there are real consequences if you continually go out of your way to point it out to them. We were guilty of arrogance and hubris, NOT cheating. That's the story I want out there.

I think we can be even more proactive with this deflategate nonsense, because there is a good chance that there really were people out to get us, and its starting to come to light, but the NFL desperately wants this all to go away. They are perfectly willing to let the Pats bear the unfair burden of their own malfeasance and ineptitude.

That's why I think they will let this drag on as long as they can, and then when they finally HAVE to present something they will vindicate the Pats, but leave the implication that while nothing can be proven, something COULD have been done. That way they can clear the Pats, because obviously they did nothing wrong, and yet still leave the haters something to whine about. This way they and their media allies don't have to take any accountability for their shoddy handling of this mess.

If this is the end result of all this......they WIN!

 

[Deus Irae]

What you state is true, but when you state "all you can do is try.....", I'm looking for the specifics that we all can do. For almost 8 years, as a fan base, all we have done is whine about the error in perception and the injustice and complain about it.

I no longer care about who's fault it is that we are in this position. What we need to do now is to help correct it and get the full truth out. Now I fully understand that we aren't guiltless in this. Even if you truly ARE smarter than the rest of your playmates, there are real consequences if you continually go out of your way to point it out to them. We were guilty of arrogance and hubris, NOT cheating. That's the story I want out there.

I think we can be even more proactive with this deflategate nonsense, because there is a good chance that there really were people out to get us, and its starting to come to light, but the NFL desperately wants this all to go away. They are perfectly willing to let the Pats bear the unfair burden of their own malfeasance and ineptitude.

That's why I think they will let this drag on as long as they can, and then when they finally HAVE to present something they will vindicate the Pats, but leave the implication that while nothing can be proven, something COULD have been done. That way they can clear the Pats, because obviously they did nothing wrong, and yet still leave the haters something to whine about. This way they and their media allies don't have to take any accountability for their shoddy handling of this mess.

If this is the end result of all this......they WIN!

"They" have already won. All Patriots fans can do is try to make sure that the long term history is written correctly. The living generations will always "know" that the Patriots were evil cheaters. The goal now should be to make sure that future generations know the actual facts and realities. This is what happens when you don't get the facts out before a false 'truth' becomes embedded in the public consciousness. We see it with politics, medicine and nutrition, and a host of other different areas beyond sports.

The good news, such as it is, is that Kraft didn't take the same approach with deflategate. He was too slow to respond, but at least he responded forcefully when he finally went on record.

 

[Deus Irae]

Those of you who think that Patriots fans posting links and evidence will make a difference can just take a look at other forums. Here's a thread from Chiefsplanet. As always, Chiefsplanet threads may continue language that would not be allowed here, so I'll just post the link with the NSFW warning:

http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=290089

Read it through and you'll see the kind ignorance and stupidity about "spygate" that you're up against.

 

[Calhoun44]

I think the thread that I was hoping to see started (by someone more articulate than myself) is one that would be an impassioned plea from the fans perspective about how these scandals make it harder to enjoy the team accomplishments. Something akin to the "Kids and Deflategate" thread where actual real life situations are conveyed. The thread would need to be edited and then find it's way to the Pats front office and news outlets. Hopefully this would provide inspiration to those in charge to fight this harder with our thoughts spurring them on. Pipe dream? Maybe, but it would feel good to make an effort.

 

[Tunescribe]

Those of you who think that Patriots fans posting links and evidence will make a difference can just take a look at other forums. Here's a thread from Chiefsplanet. As always, Chiefsplanet threads may continue language that would not be allowed here, so I'll just post the link with the NSFW warning:

http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=290089

Read it through and you'll see the kind ignorance and stupidity about "spygate" that you're up against.

That's a real obstacle. It's takes willing patience and powers of discernment to understand the truth.

 

[Deus Irae]

That's a real obstacle. It's takes willing patience and powers of discernment to understand the truth.

And about 300 million US residents don't have either when it comes to this subject.

 

[PatsFanSince74]

In the spirit of "things to do," why don't all the fans who were at the AFCCG and were sitting behind the Colts bench look at any videos or pics they shot after the Jackson pick and see if, maybe, they got lucky and caught someone on the Colts' staff messing with that ball.

Not only would you make yourself an instant hero and household name to all of Patriots' nation (the Zabruder of Gillette!), but you would become an overnight internet sensation.

The haters will, of course, say that you doctored the tape or, more likely, just ignore it, but we don't give a **** about them any more...at least I don't.

That's the real thing. When I moved to New York, I was amazed at how much Yankees' fans seemed to love it that I, as a long time baseball fan and a Red Sox fan, HATED them. They seemed to thrive on the hate.

That's how I've become.

Whenever someone in NYC says something negative about the Pats to me, I've started to say, "Come on, is that the best you can do? You're just being polite. Bring it on. We and our four Lombardis just love it."

 

[Bobsyouruncle]

That's a real obstacle. It's takes willing patience and powers of discernment to understand the truth.

The truth is a nifty tool, but one of many. We didn't get assaulted on Deflategate using the truth. If it's not the weapon others have used to win these battles what makes us think it's the weapon we should use in return?

We don't need the cowboy in the white hat, we need the one in the black hat.

 

[patfanken]

The truth is a nifty tool, but one of many. We didn't get assaulted on Deflategate using the truth. If it's not the weapon others have used to win these battles what makes us think it's the weapon we should use in return?

We don't need the cowboy in the white hat, we need the one in the black hat.

OK Bob, what would you suggest. Personally I think the truth would work well if utilized in a well thought out intensive strategy. But F**k it, at this point, I'm up for anything.

Hell, If I had Bob Kraft's money I'd have Irsay, Gregson, and that former Jets hack under 24 hour surveillance, waiting for them to do what honor less hypocrites do. and return the favor

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

"They" have already won. All Patriots fans can do is try to make sure that the long term history is written correctly. The living generations will always "know" that the Patriots were evil cheaters. The goal now should be to make sure that future generations know the actual facts and realities. This is what happens when you don't get the facts out before a false 'truth' becomes embedded in the public consciousness. We see it with politics, medicine and nutrition, and a host of other different areas beyond sports.

The good news, such as it is, is that Kraft didn't take the same approach with deflategate. He was too slow to respond, but at least he responded forcefully when he finally went on record.

Looking at the glass half-full, Deflategate could be a good thing for this franchise in the long run. If Deflategate ultimately is remembered as a "sour grapes", bungled, paranoid investigation and the league and media look like complete dolts, it will be the rallying call for many future scandals when people say "remember when the Colts accused the Patriots..." or "they lost. better check the air pressure of the balls!" as a sarcastic comment, and would be a cautionary tale that people should not jump to conclusions or blame tiny technicalities for their loss. If that's the case, this whole scandal may dwarf "Spygate", which then becomes a footnote. Oh, so they were accused of cheating and found guilty in the past. But, back to the whole "framing incident" which, actually, is much more interesting to people, since the idea of sore losers trying to stain the reputation of the winner is a more powerful story than a team getting a competitive edge (since that happens every day.)

The other thing is that the Patriots still hold an emotional stronghold over many people right now. When the team ultimately breaks up, their reputation may still have a small stain, but people just won't care anymore as much as they do now. Do you hear people railing about the dirty Raiders these days?

 

[Deus Irae]

OK Bob, what would you suggest. Personally I think the truth would work well if utilized in a well thought out intensive strategy. But F**k it, at this point, I'm up for anything.

Hell, If I had Bob Kraft's money I'd have Irsay, Gregson, and that former Jets hack under 24 hour surveillance, waiting for them to do what honor less hypocrites do. and return the favor

It's too late to fight back with the truth. Just take a look at the walk through allegations.

Truth: Paper recanted and apologized, writer disgraced, team exonerated by league


Result: People don't care, say Patriots did it anyway, claim Rodger/NFL was protecting Patriots.

 

[rochrist]

I agree, I think they went with the tried and true tactic of ignoring it and letting it die. Feed it and you create more stories. Does anyone know about shoulder gate? That scandal was gone a month after it started.

But they were wrong because that was a tactic for the pre-internet era. This could be a longer diatribe but the short answer is that a new tactic is needed. Rather than typing into an echo chamber we can be more productive. We can complain about the fact that everyone can get a voice out on the Internet and quality has gone down, but then ignore that it's a double edged sword. We can get stuff out almost as easily as everyone else like Clayton. And IMO we should.

I think that's essentially correct. The thing is, it probably would have been a perfectly viable strategy if it hadn't been for that FAT TURD THOMASE. By the time he dropped his load on them, it was pretty much too late to change strategies, and Thomase's ******** has become the accepted truth.
The other problem that contributed heavily to how this has stuck to the Pats is the whole idiotic burning the tapes thing. Who knows why they did that, or why they decided to tell everyone they were doing it, but the accepted truth around THAT is that those were all tapes of practices and runthrus.