JJ Watt: Combine 2nd look

Discussion in 'Patriots Draft Talk' started by borg, Apr 15, 2011.

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  1. borg

    borg In the Starting Line-Up

    Watt vs Jordan....Nearly identical
    Lets review some combine stats of DL...which includes the DEs projected as NFL OLBs
    57 players participated, in some/all measurables/drills.

    JJ Watt

    Height 6'5 3/8" 2nd tallest out of 57 measured....2/57
    Weight 290 lb .....25th/57
    Arm 34"........12th (tied)/57
    Hands 11 1/8"...1st (tie)/57...Cam Jordan
    40 4.84....15th/48
    Bench 34 reps....5th/46
    Vert 37".......2nd/49 ..........246 lb Moch #1
    Long Jmp 10'0"....2nd/46.........246 lb Moch #1
    20 yd shuttle 4.21...2/47.........Clayborn #1......impressive
    3 cone 6.88...2nd (tie)/47........Acho #1

    Cameron Jordan

    6"4 1/8"
    287 lb
    11 1/8"
    25 reps

    I'm giving Watt the physical edge....both strength and quickness.
    Tape shows a guy that plays with athleticism and passion.
    Watt is my guy. Strong big hands that can take down a QB with arm tackles. Extraordinary leaping ability combined with length to disrupt passing lanes. (Jumping ability means explosion off line). Initially, Watt is my 3rd down rusher....who eventually slides into 3 down DL. There is no player on the current roster with his physical makeup, a skill set that can get to the QB from the interior. Think about Wilfork....gets the penetration but physically can't finish off an attack on the QB. Combine these two, add Wright into the mix, and we now have big guys that present issues for the OL. I can't tell you how frustrated I get watching the DL lockup with the OL on 3rd down passing plays. Time for the big guys to factor in the pass rush.


    In my ideal "Let's get this D straightened out" draft...

    2011 NFL Combine Results: Defensive Linemen | Steelers Depot
    Last edited: Apr 15, 2011
  2. b72s

    b72s On the Game Day Roster


    I like it

    I want 2 d and 2 oline in first four if BPA
  3. VJCPatriot

    VJCPatriot Pro Bowl Player

    What can I say, Watt is the guy I want out of this draft. I also compared Watts numbers to the OLBs available in this year's draft and the only guy with better overall numbers is Von Miller. That's the really shocking part, at 6'5 290, Watt is more explosive and agile than most OLBs! :eek: He's a freak of nature and could turn into a force on defense for us.
    Last edited: Apr 15, 2011
  4. jays52

    jays52 In the Starting Line-Up

    #91 Jersey

    Yup, he's pretty good. That being said, don't get too enamored with his combine because he's not as explosive as some of those numbers would lead you to believe. Those are linebacker numbers, and he's certainly no linebacker. He is as agile as his three cone suggests, and he can jump out of the building, but a closing burst/first step guy he is not. I'm beginning to think he's too tall to play over the guard in sub and may be best kept outside there. I think he should be allowed to develop at end in sub then moved to the full rotation. He's still my #2 dlineman, but let's not get too far ahead of ourselves.
  5. borg

    borg In the Starting Line-Up

    For fun, check out the combine stats for Jared Allen 6'6" 265lb (my white guy comparison).

    Ht Wt 40-yd dash 10-yd split 20-yd split 20-ss 3-cone Vert Broad BP
    6 ft 6 in 265 lb 4.72 s 1.68 s 2.74 s 4.34 s 7.11 s 33 in 10 ft 0 in 13 rep

    Jared Allen - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    Last edited: Apr 15, 2011
  6. Off The Grid

    Off The Grid Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

    #3 Jersey

    Hell, YEAH, he's too tall to play over the O Guard!! Leave'm on the Edge, and slide over Kenrick Ellis ~ eventually ~ to Nose, and Colby WhitLock ~ eventually ~ to Under Tackle!! :D

    Who's your #1?? Forgive me if you've already mentioned him 8 million times: I'm descended from Gold Fish ~ and assorted other critters. :D
  7. patfanken

    patfanken Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

    #91 Jersey

    I'm with you. Extraordinary athletic skills, good college production, good motor, high football IQ. He's the guy with the most upside. He's also a guy who will be 315 in about 3 years

    I'd be OK with Jordan, but Watt is guy I'd even move to 10 or so to make sure I got him.

    My ideal draft

    Move up to get Watt
    Have Kerrigan fall to us at 17 or even move up a spot or two to jump Jacksonville
    Get an OG/T at either 28 or 33 wichever we didn't have to trade

    After that I'd be hoping for a running back I never heard of and lots of "shots in the dark" like BCarter, Romeus, Herzlick, Mock, etc
  8. borg

    borg In the Starting Line-Up

    With Brady behind center, the Pats should be playing with the lead more times than not....resulting in teams playing catchup thru the air. The "stout" runstoppers become a liability. Time for a more athletic alternative, which I argue is not on the D linemen roster now. The NFL has evolved into a pass first league where a subpackage specialist is now relied on more than base personel. I believe Reiss stated the Pats went subpackage 52% of the time....no wonder considering the points the O put up.
    Beating the Jets.....Sanchez is vulnerable to blocked passes...shorter stature and low arm angle. Adding more interior pressure with an athletic "long" DT/DE and Sanchez will have more difficulty getting off the quick passes behind center. Extra time should benefit the outside rush.
    Ultimately, the Pats can afford a luxory....Watt....and I use the term luxory because he doesn't fit the prototypical Patriots 3-4 D lineman(weight being the limiting factor). Think about the other elite teams with their 1 pick per round standard draft ahead of them. The Patriots can afford to go after a unique player.
  9. jays52

    jays52 In the Starting Line-Up

    #91 Jersey

    Hahaha hey man, at the end of the day we're all just highly evolved protozoa. Goldfish can travel at lightspeed by comparison. My #1 is Dareus. While I think that ultimately Watt will become a better end (especially if drafted by this coach), Dareus can play every position from 0-5 at an extremely high level and ultimately I think that's more valuable.
  10. patfanken

    patfanken Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

    #91 Jersey

    But Dareus is a top 3-5 guy and not realistically in our reach. Watt is a guy who I think will go between 10-15 Kerrigan is a guy who can go 15-20 Those are BOTH players that we can maneuver for and realistically get without losing the pick at the bottom of the first/top of the 2nd.

    The more I read up on Watt the more I want him. I don't understand your position that Watt is undersized. He weighs about 5 pounds less than Seymour did when he can to us at #6. I also don't get the comparisons to Mike Wright

    Kerrigan's measurables are remarkably close to :Miller's, while his on field production dwarfs Miller.

    These 2 guys are DIFFERENCE makers from day one. They can contribute right away and eventually develop into the kind of bed rock players that anchor an elite defense for the next 5 years.

    Others that I hear mentioned that can realistically be gotten are either one year wonders like Smith and Bowers or are injury risks (which also includes Bowers) or have other risks associated with them like Quinn (character.motor)

    All the guys mentioned in the above paragraph are great athletes who might turn out to be perennial all pros, nor would I hate to have any of them, but Watt and Kerrigan, do NOTcome with some of the issues these guys do

    Like I've said all along THIS is the year we should get 3 IMPACT players at the top and take a few shots at the bottom and hope one or two turn out like weve so often seen
    Last edited: Apr 15, 2011
  11. jays52

    jays52 In the Starting Line-Up

    #91 Jersey

    Absolutely. I agree with you nearly 100%. This is the crown jewel year of the defensive rebuild. I also think that Watt should be the coveted prize. I like Kerrigan as well, but think that position can be better filled via free agency. I have Dareus #1 on my overall list and agree there's no chance of getting him, nor would he be worth going that high unlike, say, Suh was last year. I love Watt, and don't think he's undersized at all, but I do think that in year one he would get run over a lot trying to 2-gap. I think he'll eventually be a complete, elite player that teams have to scheme for.
    Last edited: Apr 15, 2011
  12. borg

    borg In the Starting Line-Up

    Just curious if any predraft #s were ever posted on Seymour in 2001. He did not attend the combine and I can't find anything about a proday.
    Only info...299 lb, 6'6", 4.95 40 yd
  13. jays52

    jays52 In the Starting Line-Up

    #91 Jersey

    I can guarantee you he didn't test remotely near Watt. That said, Watt's run tape isn't remotely near Seymour's.
  14. patfanken

    patfanken Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

    #91 Jersey

    Seymour's great skill was his ability to bend. I know it sounds funny, but while many thought he'd be too tall to play effective 2 gap, he actually played like we was 6' rather than 6'6 This ability to "bend" gave him great leverage so that now his length was an advantage. I thnk that a lot of people have forgotten that Richard's first year was spend mostly playing NT. A spot he happily relinquished for the most part his 2nd year.

    I would like to know if Watt plays with the same kind of leverage. I know he reported has very strong hands
  15. stevedogc

    stevedogc Third String But Playing on Special Teams

    I've wanted a draft that included Watt & Kerrigan since day 1. I've tried to talk myself out of it, but I always come back to those two. I really think they would compliment each other nicely, as well as Cunningham. However, unless this draft get turned around a bit, neither of them should be where we would like them. I'm fairly confident Watt will not make it to 17 and Kerrigan may be there. To get Watt I'm thinking a trade up to #10 with Washington or #12 with the Vikings. If we trade #17, then we are looking at packaging that up with #60 or #74. If we dont want to include #17, then it would definatly cost #28 and #33. My point is, I dont see us getting Watt and Kerrigan and still having #28 or

    My scenario has the Pats trading 28 & 33 to Minny for 12 & 135. The trade value is equal. Minny has no 3rd round pick and needs a QB. 12 may be to high to get a QB (if Gabbert and Newton are gone). With 28 they can get their QB and can use 33 for another need. Washington could also be a trading partner. They have no 3rd and 4th rounder and need a QB. 28 & 33 is a slight edge for the Pats in points for the 10th overall, but Washington may be desperate with no 3rd and 4th. Then use the 17 to get Kerrigan if he falls there. And depending on how the draft goes, maybe trade back a few spots if the Pats are confident he may be there later. Maybe trade 17 to the Chiefs for 21 and 86 in which the tade value is equal. We'd have Watt and Kerrigan and still have 60, 74, 86, 92, 124, 135, 156 and 184. Which gives the Pats alot of ammo to trade for picks next year or up in rounds 2 & 3.
    Last edited: Apr 15, 2011
  16. patfanken

    patfanken Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

    #91 Jersey

    I fear we have no chance to get Watt at 17, in fact I doubt Kerrigan will be there either. i

    I've become much more enamored with Kerrigan lately. I have always been impressed with his consistent on field production, however I was unaware until it was pointed out here how athletic he is. Poster have shown that his "measureables: are surprisingly very close to what Robert Quinn put up.

    So why invest to heavily to go up and get Quinn, when you can get nearly the same athletici sm out of Kerrigan PLUS the bonus of a proven character guy who has superior on field production.

    Would he be an instant product at OLB. No. But he is the type of guy who is extremely coachable. Vrabel had a 3 year incubation period with Pittsburgh, I would surmise that after 3 years Kerrigan will be as good if not better

    I would suspect that we'd have to give up some serious currency to move to 10 and 15 to move to the spots I think we need to be to pick up both. I'm not one of those guys who is conversant with the draft chart, but I'm guessing it would cost 28 or 33 plus at least one of the 3rd round picks. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong

    However if by #33 we have gotten Kerrigan, Watt, and the best remaining OL prospect I'd give up 3 picks in the first 3 rounds to do it. That would still leave us with 3 picks to grab a RB, red shirt injury player, and a WR.

    I know it sounds heretical, but most NFL teams manage to do well with just 6 or 7 picks. Why the Jets seem to do pretty will with just 3 or 4.

    Also key in my scenario is the confidence that with 500 odd FAs available, we can fill in any missing pieces with prove players at reasonable prices. And the longer this goes on the lower the prices are going to be.
  17. JoeShmoe

    JoeShmoe 2nd Team Getting Their First Start

    If you believe that big board thread, the Pats have Watt well down their DE list (behind Jordan and Clayborn)
  18. Off The Grid

    Off The Grid Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

    #3 Jersey

    Ah!! Intrigued, I am...Would you be so kind, sir, as to ~ once again ~ share who's on your mind??

    Personally, I'm pretty fired up about the idea of stealing Matthias Kiwanuka back from the @#$%&!! :D
  19. Mark Morse

    Mark Morse PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

    #15 Jersey

    I don't believe that Big Board Thread ... BB is such a stickler for details he would never allow that info to get out unless he wants it to get out!

    I don't believe JJ Watt is on their board. We have not taken a client of Tom Condon since the Ben Watson holdout his rookie season. That holdout ruined Watson's season and the Pats had to carry him for the year without any benefit.
  20. MaineMan

    MaineMan 2nd Team Getting Their First Start

    IDK. One might also think it was the knee injury and being moved to IR that ruined Watson's rookie season more than his holdout.

    Also, does anyone have a list of the players we skipped because they were repped by Condon? Anyway, it would be pretty revealing to the rest of the world if Watt was NOT on their board at all, now wouldn't it?
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