Jason Taylor situation heats up considerably: no workouts, minicamp, or training camp

[Ring 6]

Re: Jason Taylor situation heats up considerably: no workouts, minicamp, or training

The dolphins were pretty good in the early Taylor years, they had madison, surtain, and Thomas in their prime, their D was insane. Still they didnt win anything, and the franchise degraded rapidly.

You talk about commitment thats funny theres probably no player in the league that has been more committed than Taylor to the fish. Why should Taylor be committed to a company after 10 plus years who dont produce? That is moronic. He is not obligated to live or die as a fish, players get traded and cut all the time. What do you say when a company (aka a football franchise) signs a player to a big long term contract then cuts their *** before the deal is up? The dolphins have done this to thousands of players but you defend them like they are mount olympus or something?

Taylor deserves a shot at a ring, its what he does as a human being. Theres nothing wrong with wanting to reach the pinnacle of what you do in life.

That makes absolutley no sense to me.

Jason Taylor agreed to sign a contract with the dolphins. That contract specified what he would be paid, what he was agreeing that he would do, and included the reality that the team could terminate it at any time. THAT is what they agreed to. Now you want to say the team cutting players as is their right under the contract should allow another player to break his agreement in the contract? That is bizarre. The contract doesnt guarantee employment. It does bind the player to employment if the team wants him, and the player has agreed (given his word) that he will do everything the contract says he will. How does that justify taylor saying FU Im not showing up?
This is akin to your coworker being fired for looking at porn on the internet all day (or even simply because he was bad at his job and they found someone better) so you decide that you dont have to show up for work if you dont want to. His employment agreement included not looking at porn or only being employed if he did a good job. The company firing him for not being good enough, which is what the contract says the have the RIGHT to do, doesnt make it ok for you to violate your contract.

I just dont understand how it is so easy for people to think that its OK for Jason Taylor to fail to do what he has been paid millions of dollars to do, when he agreed to do it.
The Dolphins said "we willpay you $15million dollars, or whatever, but you are agreeing you will among other things report to camp" Taylor took the $15,000,000, or whatever, then decided HIS PART OF THE BARGAIN was his choice to honor or not.
WHY DOESNT THAT BOTHER MORE PEOPLE THAN JUST ME?

 

[Ring 6]

Re: Jason Taylor situation heats up considerably: no workouts, minicamp, or training

thats not the case he is not walking away because it get too hard he is walking away because the team he plays for is pathetic, and he wants to win a championship and his time is running out.

Taylor has one of the best characters in the league, he has proven that over the years. Just because he wants a chance to win a championship and asks for a trade doesnt devalue his character in anyway for me, if i were in his position i would do the same thing. The dolphins are rebuilding, they were 1-15 last year THE WORST TEAM IN THE LEAGUE. You are being rediculous imo.

No. his job is to hep win football games. he didnt sign a contract that said he only had to honor it if he liked their decisions. Should he pay back the money he was paid under a contract he feels he doesnt have to honor? Where in his contract does it say, we will pay you x amount and we will make good personell decisions and if we dont win you can opt out?
Everyone wants to win a championship. Not everyone abandons their morals to do so.

Having one of the best characters in the league is a PERMANENT thing. You do not have 'one of the best characters in the league' only when you are happy.
The reality is you never know the character someone has until times are tough. Everyone has great character when things are going well. When your back is against the wall, you show your true character.

I just dont uinderstand the mentality that says a guy who signed a contract, got paid every penny he was owed, is allowed to, after the fact, say he refuses to honor it because the team is bad. Show me where it says that the Dolphins agreed to pay him all of that money, but if he didnt like the way things were going he didnt have to hold up his end of the bargain.

Again, we come back to character. To me if I agree to something and you pay me to do it, when I come back later and say I change my mind, I want to ADD the part that I can escape if I become unhappy, is slimy character.
If Taylor TRULY 'wanted to win' above all else, he would not have signed a long term contract. He would have signed one year deals. Then he couldhave decided if he wanted to stay. But, wait a minute, there is more money in a long term contract.
So, taylor took the long term money, and now wants to go back on his word. I coudl give ***** whether he likes the direction the franchise is going in. HE GAVE HIS WORD AND NEVER SAID IT WAS CONTINGENT ON LIKING THAT DIRECTION. If he had, he wouldnt have gotten as much money.

 

[Jackson 2]

Re: Jason Taylor situation heats up considerably: no workouts, minicamp, or training

I don't blame Taylor for not wanting to come back to the 'Phins

Hes on his way out and retirement is near and theres is NO chance of a SB ring within 2 years which is what he has left.

The cowboys got his buddy Zach now,Probably the closest guy Jason had on the team full of lots of different players each year who get cut or traded away.

Thats why he wants out - No Zach and No SB ring in sightin Miami....

Zach is his buddy, and more. If I'm not mistaken, they are brothers-in-law (Zach is married to Jason's sister). I'd take him for a 3rd rounder, but I doubt Parcells would trade him here or elsewhere in the division.

 

[Ring 6]

Re: Jason Taylor situation heats up considerably: no workouts, minicamp, or training

You don't think a Vrabel/Adalius/Mayo/Taylor starting LB core is significantly better than a Vrabel/Bruschi (or Hobson)/Mayo/Adalius LB core? Not a Caldwell to Moss upgrade but a very big one, at least in my opinion.

Big, fast, athletic, strong tackling, pass rushing ability...this teams linebackers would be absolutely absurd with Taylor starting over Bruschi or Hobson.

Why would you bring in a guy who doesnt fit the system in order to move Thomas out of position? Thomas is best outside. It makes no sense to reduce his contribution in order tobring in a guy who wont be as good as him outside.
You are expecting Taylor to figure out how to play the run in a 2gap 34 as an OLB at what 32 years old? Come on.

The names look pretty in that post, but football games arent won because of name recognition. Taylor would add next to nothing to this team.

 

[BRiZ]

Re: Jason Taylor situation heats up considerably: no workouts, minicamp, or training

That makes absolutley no sense to me.

Jason Taylor agreed to sign a contract with the dolphins. That contract specified what he would be paid, what he was agreeing that he would do, and included the reality that the team could terminate it at any time. THAT is what they agreed to. Now you want to say the team cutting players as is their right under the contract should allow another player to break his agreement in the contract? That is bizarre. The contract doesnt guarantee employment. It does bind the player to employment if the team wants him, and the player has agreed (given his word) that he will do everything the contract says he will. How does that justify taylor saying FU Im not showing up?
This is akin to your coworker being fired for looking at porn on the internet all day (or even simply because he was bad at his job and they found someone better) so you decide that you dont have to show up for work if you dont want to. His employment agreement included not looking at porn or only being employed if he did a good job. The company firing him for not being good enough, which is what the contract says the have the RIGHT to do, doesnt make it ok for you to violate your contract.

I just dont understand how it is so easy for people to think that its OK for Jason Taylor to fail to do what he has been paid millions of dollars to do, when he agreed to do it.
The Dolphins said "we willpay you $15million dollars, or whatever, but you are agreeing you will among other things report to camp" Taylor took the $15,000,000, or whatever, then decided HIS PART OF THE BARGAIN was his choice to honor or not.
WHY DOESNT THAT BOTHER MORE PEOPLE THAN JUST ME?

Yea and the company also agrees to pay them for the length of the deal but all the time they weasle out of the deal before the big money hits and pretty much lie to the player about what they were gunna pay him, they just cut them. Nice character there. The point is you dont feel an employee has any right to leave their job for greener pastures, they are bound by their life to the contract they signed. Maybe i would agree with you if this was Taylors 3rd year in the league and he said he wanted out but hes been playing for the fish for 10+ years and it hasnt worked out, he has a right to move on imo.

 

[PatriotsReign]

Re: Jason Taylor situation heats up considerably: no workouts, minicamp, or training

That makes absolutley no sense to me.

Jason Taylor agreed to sign a contract with the dolphins. That contract specified what he would be paid, what he was agreeing that he would do, and included the reality that the team could terminate it at any time. THAT is what they agreed to. Now you want to say the team cutting players as is their right under the contract should allow another player to break his agreement in the contract? That is bizarre. The contract doesnt guarantee employment. It does bind the player to employment if the team wants him, and the player has agreed (given his word) that he will do everything the contract says he will. How does that justify taylor saying FU Im not showing up?
This is akin to your coworker being fired for looking at porn on the internet all day (or even simply because he was bad at his job and they found someone better) so you decide that you dont have to show up for work if you dont want to. His employment agreement included not looking at porn or only being employed if he did a good job. The company firing him for not being good enough, which is what the contract says the have the RIGHT to do, doesnt make it ok for you to violate your contract.

I just dont understand how it is so easy for people to think that its OK for Jason Taylor to fail to do what he has been paid millions of dollars to do, when he agreed to do it.
The Dolphins said "we willpay you $15million dollars, or whatever, but you are agreeing you will among other things report to camp" Taylor took the $15,000,000, or whatever, then decided HIS PART OF THE BARGAIN was his choice to honor or not.
WHY DOESNT THAT BOTHER MORE PEOPLE THAN JUST ME?

I don't agree that a professional athlete MUST honor his/her contract. Especially a veteran like Jason Taylor. These guys sacrifice years off their bodies, so if they decide they want to have a shot at winning a title, they can go for it.

From a moral perspective, it's fine. The management in Miami wasn't taking care of their end for too long. And "their" end isn't just paying Taylor...in my opinion anyway.

You can't compare the average Joe's job and the example of looking at porn & all that. They are two entirely different universes. For one, the majority of us have no leverage. Secondly, I haven't had to sacrifice my knees or my back or whatever to do my job.

Whatever Taylor chooses to do, he's certainly earned it.

 

[Afterlifemobile-86]

Re: Jason Taylor situation heats up considerably: no workouts, minicamp, or training

All well and good, but that doesnt explain assaulting the CHARACTER of the Patriot player (The things said on this forum about Law were equivalent to what people say about criminals, corrusption and politicians) for the same thing then welcoming Taylor with open arms.
I dont want him. Not for free. He is way beyond his prime, he doesnt fit our system, but most of all he is showing a tremendous lack of character. WINNERS don't always win, but they don't run away. If Taylor had the type of character that exists in the Pats lockerroom, he would be in Miami WORKING HARDER THAN EVER to be THE REASON that the franchise turns around. This guy abandoned his teammates to be on dancing with the stars, and now is saying, by extension, his teammates suck so bad, he wants to go to another team. Hello????????????????? He was on the field contributing to all of those losses.
The worst guy to add to a lockerroom is the guy who was supposed to be a leader on a team that consistently underachieved, and especially, when he tries to distance himself from the losing. Taylor can take his 'I wasnt the reason we sucked' attitude wherever he wants, but I will guarantee you he will not end up with a Super Bowl ring. He is a selfish player in a team sport, but even worse, a sport where individual stats create the impression of leadership from guys who totally lack leadership skills. As I said, I wouldnt want him for free.

Thank god you're not in the Patriots F/O.

 

[HSanders]

Re: Jason Taylor situation heats up considerably: no workouts, minicamp, or training

AJ, can I assume based on your stance on JT that you have a HUGE problem with Tom Brady missing offseason workouts as well?

 

[ScottieC]

Re: Jason Taylor situation heats up considerably: no workouts, minicamp, or training

Nope. Dont want overrated prima donas, who are one-dimensional, dont fit our system, are bad teammates, and react to difficulties by asking to be allowed to run away.

Let me make sure I understand this. Bill Parcells has a problem with his employee Jason Taylor and his attitude, and you would like Bill Belichick to throw open his arms and ask him to come play for the kinder, gentler Patriots?

Bills problem with Jason is that Jason does not want to play for that crappy team anymore.

I'll take as many JT type's (Pro Bowl Vets that still have gas in the tank and want a ring) that are out there. Bill loves the old vetran devensive guys, so yea, He'd throw open his arms for Jason.

 

[Sean Pa Patriot]

Re: Jason Taylor situation heats up considerably: no workouts, minicamp, or training

As much as we all would welcome and love Jason Taylor on our team, the fish will not trade him to the Pats, better chance of him going dallas, or san diego..

 

[mcbee]

Re: Jason Taylor situation heats up considerably: no workouts, minicamp, or training

1) There is no way Parcells is trading Taylor to us. I suspect he might let him sit out the season.

2) There is no way that Taylor, under reasonable contract terms, is not worth a 2nd.

-----------------

Where does that leave the patriots? Waiting for Taylor to be cut, I think.

He's going to pay him 9M to "sit out the season"? Are you nuts? Because he wants to avoid helping a "contender"? How is blowing 9M on a player sitting out the season going to help the dolphins more than just cutting him loose?

 

[captain stone]

Re: Jason Taylor situation heats up considerably: no workouts, minicamp, or training

Why would you bring in a guy who doesnt fit the system in order to move Thomas out of position? Thomas is best outside. It makes no sense to reduce his contribution in order tobring in a guy who wont be as good as him outside.
You are expecting Taylor to figure out how to play the run in a 2gap 34 as an OLB at what 32 years old? Come on.

The names look pretty in that post, but football games arent won because of name recognition. Taylor would add next to nothing to this team.

Taylor would be part of a 3 OLB rotation with Vrabel and Thomas. If Chicken Legs earns PT with the regular D, then Vrabel and Thomas can slide inside on passing situations. Besides, hadn't Taylor played 3-4 OLB sometimes under Johnson, Wannstadt or Saban?

 

[Deus Irae]

Re: Jason Taylor situation heats up considerably: no workouts, minicamp, or training

OK so Taylor won when I wasnt looking?
He was part of a team that went 1-15. If Iwere to even consider wanting him here, I would have to assume it tore him up to go through that, that he worked his @ss off to prevent it, that he was a leader of that team and asked them to sacriifice for the team, and that he takes responsibility for his part in 1-15. If all of those assumptions are correct, you wouldn't abandon off-season workouts to be on dancing with the stars, and bail on your teammates to go somewhere else where winning would be EASIER.
Yes, those are his teammates he wants to leave behind.

When Jason Taylor was the DPOY, his team won 6 games. Clearly, he's not the reason the team sucks. Football is a team sport, not an individual pursuit.

Your argument about off-season workouts might have merit if you were talking about a rookie, or second year player. Since you're not, it means nothing.

As for the teammates issue, almost every one of his long-term teammates have moved on. Zach Thomas, for one, says "hello".

I don't know what you have against Taylor, but his off-season sure as heck isn't a good argument for not bringing him in.

 

[Palm Beach Pats Fan]

Re: Jason Taylor situation heats up considerably: no workouts, minicamp, or training

He's going to pay him 9M to "sit out the season"? Are you nuts? Because he wants to avoid helping a "contender"? How is blowing 9M on a player sitting out the season going to help the dolphins more than just cutting him loose?

Jason Taylor's contract, like all others, has provisions for him being there to honor it. If he chooses not to show up, they don't have to pay him. The year would also not count as NFL service time for pensions.

I'm not sure of the salary cap implications, but in terms of him actualy getting a paycheck, that would not happen. He would be violating his contract.

Now if the Dolphins are telling him not to show up, then it is another thing, since they would be preventing him from honoring his contract.

 

[Pats726]

Re: Jason Taylor situation heats up considerably: no workouts, minicamp, or training

Jason Taylor's contract, like all others, has provisions for him being there to honor it. If he chooses not to show up, they don't have to pay him. The year would also not count as NFL service time for pensions.

I'm not sure of the salary cap implications, but in terms of him actualy getting a paycheck, that would not happen. He would be violating his contract.

Now if the Dolphins are telling him not to show up, then it is another thing, since they would be preventing him from honoring his contract.

As far as I know..he doesn't automatically get removed from the cap...

 

[ctpatsfan77]

Re: Jason Taylor situation heats up considerably: no workouts, minicamp, or training

Now if the Dolphins are telling him not to show up, then it is another thing, since they would be preventing him from honoring his contract.

Normally, I would agree with the folks that say "He signed a contract, now live up to it," but it's worth noting that it's a lot more one-sided in the NFL (it's not like MLB, where even your salary is guaranteed).

 

[MoLewisrocks]

Re: Jason Taylor situation heats up considerably: no workouts, minicamp, or training

Bills problem with Jason is that Jason does not want to play for that crappy team anymore.

I'll take as many JT type's (Pro Bowl Vets that still have gas in the tank and want a ring) that are out there. Bill loves the old vetran devensive guys, so yea, He'd throw open his arms for Jason.

While he may not want to play through a rebuild he would likely not be a beneficiary of, it's just as true that the team made the same decision about him when they brought Parcells in. Tuna has always cleaned house of established veterans who might be resistant to the concept of it now being his franchise and locker room. He brings in his own guys to help establish control and instill his system and acceptance of his methods. Guys conditioned to blindly respond to him or insecure enough to respond to fear of him, and those guys are hard to find in this day and age of rookie millionaires. The guys on NFLN were discussing this last night, saying Taylor had every right to be disgusted with Miami given the mismanagement of the last few seasons. Then Parcells is brought in and despite public denials Taylor finds out quickly from other sources that he is in fact being shopped without consultation. Which is a little silly considering no team is going to make a deal for him absent his input given his age, status and salary. So at the end of the day this is all just part of the scritpted culture change process in Miami due to Parcells being brought in. Attempts to make it appear to be anything else are just spin master smoke and mirrors.

I think Huiezenga, moron that he may be, wanted to avoid the acrimony because he realizes that Taylor was the face of his franchise in spite of gross mismanagement for a decade and he remains an icon in that market. Tuna, meanwhile, could care less about acrimony or
Huiezenga's sensibilities, is already steamed that he was lied to by Huiezenga when he signed on with the promise the franchise would not be sold and Wayne would retain majority interest in the team for the duration of his contract. A month later he sold 50% to a new owner and it's likely the balance will also be sold in the very forseeable future. The irony of the ultimate disingenuous liar being lied to and getting pissed is comical. So Tuna has told Wayne via his HC's statement yesterday to back off because he is determined to make his bones in Miami by first demonizing Taylor, or in the alternative anyone who stands between them.

I don't doubt Taylor's agent has privately informed Miami's new FO that if this crap keeps up he won't show at all before camp breaks. That is not what Taylor has said publicly. The new regime is needlessly taking private BUSINESS public in a pre emptive move to both paint the player as the driving force behind their split and to announce to 31 teams that their phone lines remain open. Taylor knows it would be nothing short of spite for the Dolphins to continue this charade through camp and cut him on the eve of the season. That would cost both sides unnecessarily, but I think Taylor would eventually emerage with the better end of that deal. They likely don't want him to show anyway, because if he's injured in TC they will pay him $9M in cash and cap for NOTHING. He can show for the pre season - all it means is he will have been fined through mandatory OTA's and TC - you can't discipline a holdout beyond fining him. Come cut down day you either pay him his $9M or make him a FA.

Taylor may well call their bluff and show up for one of the upcoming events and push them into a McNair corner. With Tuna life is generally a confrontational battle of wills. I'm glad Bill chose to modify several pages adapted from his mentor's book. He will battle wills, but it's done in relative silence. And while I doubt he will make it here, I guarantee you Bill has no issues with Jason over the situation unfolding in Miami. He realizes it is what it is. In fact he and the controlling Tuna duked it out in an eerily similar and now infamous battle back in 2000.

 

[Kontradiction]

Re: Jason Taylor situation heats up considerably: no workouts, minicamp, or training

Just to butt in, Taylor played a hybrid DE and LB in Saban's defensive scheme. He'd most likely do the same thing here depending on whether or not the other team is in a run or pass situation. To say that he'd almost exclusively play LB in our system is pretty ridiculous and shows you don't know much about his history. Actually, I can honestly say that his situation was the first time I've ever seen the hybrid DE/LB combo executed perfectly by a guy with his frame.

 

[bradmahn]

Re: Jason Taylor situation heats up considerably: no workouts, minicamp, or training

Just to butt in, Taylor played a hybrid DE and LB in Saban's defensive scheme. He'd most likely do the same thing here depending on whether or not the other team is in a run or pass situation. To say that he'd almost exclusively play LB in our system is pretty ridiculous and shows you don't know much about his history. Actually, I can honestly say that his situation was the first time I've ever seen the hybrid DE/LB combo executed perfectly by a guy with his frame.

And one of the faults many Miami fans had with his play last season was his defense against the run.

With Seymour and Warren, Taylor will never play the traditional 3-4 DE for the Patriots. He simply lacks the size necessary for the position and is a liability against the run because of it. I don't know if he played the position when they went 3-4 last season, but no one on Miami is close to Warren or Seymour in terms of their ability to play 3-4 end.

If he were to play DE it would be similar to how OLBs Vrabel and Thomas play the position.

 

[Ring 6]

Re: Jason Taylor situation heats up considerably: no workouts, minicamp, or training

Yea and the company also agrees to pay them for the length of the deal but all the time they weasle out of the deal before the big money hits and pretty much lie to the player about what they were gunna pay him, they just cut them. Nice character there. The point is you dont feel an employee has any right to leave their job for greener pastures, they are bound by their life to the contract they signed. Maybe i would agree with you if this was Taylors 3rd year in the league and he said he wanted out but hes been playing for the fish for 10+ years and it hasnt worked out, he has a right to move on imo.

You are 100% wrong. The team DOES NOT agree to pay them for the length of the contract.
The contract is specific that the team has the right to terminate it at any time, within leagues rules by cutting, trading etc.
You seem to be arguing about an agreement that does not exist. YES, IF the contract we guaranteed, and teams 'weasled out of them' I would have a very different opinion. That is not the case. The player signs a contract knowing he gets paid IF they decided to keep him on the team, that there are no guarantees, other than the amount he will get if he is kept on the team and when signing that contract agrees to all of the other terms.
Taylor has taken every paycheck yet now since he doesnt like something that happened later, has decided not to honor what he agreed to.

He doesnt have the right to move on. Your opinion isnt what is at stake, it is a FACT that he signed a contract giving up that right.
He would have had the right to move on if he signed a shorter contract but he wasnt willing to accept less money.
Ultimately Taylor is saying pay me as much as you would if I commited to you for 5 years, but I'm getting out in 3 and there is nothing you can do about it. Why didnt he sign a 3 year contract and take less money to have the right to get out after 3? Because he wanted to get more money and doesnt have the character to follow through on what he agreed to in order to get more money. Its pretty simple really.