PatsFans.com Menu
PatsFans.com - The Hub For New England Patriots Fans

Jason Taylor situation heats up considerably: no workouts, minicamp, or training camp


Status
Not open for further replies.
Re: Jason Taylor situation heats up considerably: no workouts, minicamp, or training

AJ, can I assume based on your stance on JT that you have a HUGE problem with Tom Brady missing offseason workouts as well?

Tom Brady has been recognized as working the hardest on the team in each of his offseasons in the NFL.
What is it that Brady refused to show up for?
 
Re: Jason Taylor situation heats up considerably: no workouts, minicamp, or training

Tom Brady has been recognized as working the hardest on the team in each of his offseasons in the NFL.
What is it that Brady refused to show up for?

Off season conditioning.

Of course it's voluntary, but he's always been there in the past.

This week was his first full week in Foxboro for Passing Camp.
 
Re: Jason Taylor situation heats up considerably: no workouts, minicamp, or training

I think we can give Tom the benefit of the doubt considering he's always been there on Day 1 and also considering the emotional drain of the '07 season. He can take as much time as necessary in order to come back with a clear head.
 
Re: Jason Taylor situation heats up considerably: no workouts, minicamp, or training

I think we can give Tom the benefit of the doubt considering he's always been there on Day 1 and also considering the emotional drain of the '07 season. He can take as much time as necessary in order to come back with a clear head.

I have no doubt that he'll be 100% when it comes time to play. But if something happens and he starts flat, everyone will be pointing to him missing the Off Season Str&Training Program in April and May.

He's never missed it before, if you believe all the reporters and the guys and Patriot Football Weekly, and usually wins the award (part of which is a parking space at the front of the players lot).

Again, I'm not that concerned - But I would have liked for him to have been there to show the Rookies that even though he one of the greatest to play the game, he still comes in and works harder than the rest.

Add to that his massive celebrity status now and the fact that He and Giselle are photo'd everywhere in the world BUT Foxboro - He's getting a lot of critisism. Fair or not, it's there.
 
Last edited:
Re: Jason Taylor situation heats up considerably: no workouts, minicamp, or training

If you watched him last year, you could tell that he was a shell of his former self even from 2006. He's going to do nothing but age. With what we just invested in making the defense younger, this would be a step back for us. Plus, we already have Seymour and Warren. Plus, he's going to be playing for the Fins next year. PLUS (and this is a big plus) Parcells would never ship him to us or any other division rival. That's not his style. Let him get shipped to Green Bay, Seattle, or somewhere else in the NFC that is cold.

He would play outside linebacker... not defensive end.
 
Re: Jason Taylor situation heats up considerably: no workouts, minicamp, or training

From Rotoworld:

NFL Network's Adam Schefter reports the Chargers have made inquiries to the Dolphisn regarding Jason Taylor.
We're not quite sure where he'd fit with Shaun Phillips and Shawne Merriman already at OLB, but GM A.J. Smith can never have too many good players. The teams also have a history of dealing (i.e. Chris Chambers, Cleo Lemon, and A.J. Feeley). The Dolphins' asking price around the draft was a second-round pick. San Diego would probably be an ideal landing spot in Taylor's mind.

We should offer the Chargers' second rounder.
 
Last edited:
Re: Jason Taylor situation heats up considerably: no workouts, minicamp, or training

From Rotoworld:



We should offer the Chargers' second rounder.

I'm telling ya, I really hope we get him or he goes to the NFC.
 
Re: Jason Taylor situation heats up considerably: no workouts, minicamp, or training

Why would you bring in a guy who doesnt fit the system in order to move Thomas out of position? Thomas is best outside. It makes no sense to reduce his contribution in order tobring in a guy who wont be as good as him outside.
You are expecting Taylor to figure out how to play the run in a 2gap 34 as an OLB at what 32 years old? Come on.

The names look pretty in that post, but football games arent won because of name recognition. Taylor would add next to nothing to this team.

I am stunned, really, truly Jason Taylor would add nothing to the team? Really? He has been a one man wrecking ball in every game I have seen him play. Nothing? Really?

Personally I don't think there is any doubt that he could be an impact player at ROLB, I see him as a much better Rosie Colvin. Taylor has played a hybrid DE/OLB for the last several seasons. I am not expert but I don't think the OLBs play 2-gap in the Pats scheme, the interior lineman play 2-gap. The OLBs rush the passer, set the edge and drop into coverage. Taylor is an excellent pass rusher (the most important trait), good against the run and very good at dropping into the short flat. The Pats have also used rotations in the past (McGinest, Colvin, Vrabel), it seemed to work. You can never have enough playmakers, especially passrushers.

A bigger concern to the Pats is the cap impact and roster inflexibility. If they trade for Taylor it prevents them from locking up Mankins or Wilfork in 2008. Once the 2009 season starts these two are in their last year and it becomes harder to get a deal done.

My style is "win now", I would make the trade for Taylor even for a first round pick (likely 31 or 32). The Pats have 2 - 2nd rounders, and will have 2 - 3 rounders (one will be compensatory for Samuel).

A front seven of Taylor, Seymour, Thomas, Wilfork, Mayo, Warren, Vrabel looks pretty damn good to me. 5 pro bowlers, 1 top ten pick and Warren.
 
Last edited:
Re: Jason Taylor situation heats up considerably: no workouts, minicamp, or training

The other part of this to me is that Taylor is extremely overrated. Taylor today is not Taylor of 2003, 2004, 2005, 2006. When you are 33 years old you also arent even the guy you were when you were 32 in the NFL.
Taylor has always, imo, been a guy who sacrifices everything to rush the QB. Thats not so much a knock, as it is a statement of his abilities. His best use is as a one gap, rush the QB and worry about the run if you find it along the way, kind of guy. He has been used in that role, because he is not a good run defender.
When you translate it to our system its even more severe.
He must change positions. We simply NEVER will play a 255 lb player at DE in our system. He will have to convert to OLB. Before anyone suggests he has played OLB before, he hasn't. When Saban was their Taylor would be moved around to different alignments in order to help him rush the QB from different places on the field. That is NOTHING like BEING a 34 OLB. He may have line up in that spot at times, but all he was doing was being a standup DE who was told to onegap rush the QB. (sort of like when BB has aligned Vrabel at NT. do we really think Vrabel has 'played NT')
His numbers are declining, as are his skills. At 33 EVERYONE in the NFL except QBs or maybe WRs and an OL here and there are at a point where their skills are in decline.
Wanting Taylor brought here is the classic example of why so many teams have failed in FA.....acquiring a player because of what he was in his prime, after he is no longer in his prime.
Last year he had a career low in tackles.
I know, everyone is in love with sack stastistics (everyoine except me I guess) but lets really break that down.
The comments I read suggest that if Taylor were he he would single-handedly prevent any team from ever being able to throw on us, no one could block him, and he would spend all day sacking the QB.
Well, in HALF OF HIS GAMES LAST YEAR HE REGISTERED ZERO SACKS. In about 1/3 (5 of 16) he had One. In 3 games against the weak Jets, ravens, and Texans he had 2.
Do we need 2 sacks from Jason Taylor to beat the weak teams in the NFL? What value does he have when, a year younger, he couldn't get a sack at all in half of his games?
How do those sack numbers make up for being unable to play any position in our system properly, or being able to defend the run?
taylor also had less than 5 tackles in 10 of the 16 games too, including assists.
We need an OLB to play about 1000 plays next year (2 of them actually) we have thomas and Vrabel who we know can defend the run, cover, and rush the QB. In the best of all scenarios, replacing one with Jason Taylor will mean that we are worse against the run, worse in coverage, and there may be 2 times during the year out of those 1000 plays that he gets a sack and thomas or Vrabel wouldnt have.


Last year Taylor had:
56 tackles, (47 solo, 9 assist) 11 sacks and 4 passes defensed
Thomas had 78 (57,21) 6.5 and 8 (he also had 6 of those in the last 7 games when he played OLB instead of ILB, and added 2 more in 3 playoff games) so that is actually 8 sacks in 10 games at OLB which would equal 13 over a 16 game schedule
Vrable had 77(55,22) 12.5 and 0


Exactly what would we be improving by adding Taylor to this team?

One final thing, please avoid the 'he gets lots of pressure' argument because it has been shown over and over again that the amount of pressure a guy gets is almost exactly the same as the number of sacks he gets, in other words there really isnt such a thing as one guy who gets more pressure than another guy who gets just as many sacks.

Aging player, not nearly as productive as people want to think he is, coming out of a culture that was 1-15, with character and attitude problems who thinks he is a star, who is no better than what we already have at the position. Why do people want to acquire him again?
 
Re: Jason Taylor situation heats up considerably: no workouts, minicamp, or training

The other part of this to me is that Taylor is extremely overrated. Taylor today is not Taylor of 2003, 2004, 2005, 2006. When you are 33 years old you also arent even the guy you were when you were 32 in the NFL.
Taylor has always, imo, been a guy who sacrifices everything to rush the QB. Thats not so much a knock, as it is a statement of his abilities. His best use is as a one gap, rush the QB and worry about the run if you find it along the way, kind of guy. He has been used in that role, because he is not a good run defender.
When you translate it to our system its even more severe.
He must change positions. We simply NEVER will play a 255 lb player at DE in our system. He will have to convert to OLB. Before anyone suggests he has played OLB before, he hasn't. When Saban was their Taylor would be moved around to different alignments in order to help him rush the QB from different places on the field. That is NOTHING like BEING a 34 OLB. He may have line up in that spot at times, but all he was doing was being a standup DE who was told to onegap rush the QB. (sort of like when BB has aligned Vrabel at NT. do we really think Vrabel has 'played NT')
His numbers are declining, as are his skills. At 33 EVERYONE in the NFL except QBs or maybe WRs and an OL here and there are at a point where their skills are in decline.
Wanting Taylor brought here is the classic example of why so many teams have failed in FA.....acquiring a player because of what he was in his prime, after he is no longer in his prime.
Last year he had a career low in tackles.
I know, everyone is in love with sack stastistics (everyoine except me I guess) but lets really break that down.
The comments I read suggest that if Taylor were he he would single-handedly prevent any team from ever being able to throw on us, no one could block him, and he would spend all day sacking the QB.
Well, in HALF OF HIS GAMES LAST YEAR HE REGISTERED ZERO SACKS. In about 1/3 (5 of 16) he had One. In 3 games against the weak Jets, ravens, and Texans he had 2.
Do we need 2 sacks from Jason Taylor to beat the weak teams in the NFL? What value does he have when, a year younger, he couldn't get a sack at all in half of his games?
How do those sack numbers make up for being unable to play any position in our system properly, or being able to defend the run?
taylor also had less than 5 tackles in 10 of the 16 games too, including assists.
We need an OLB to play about 1000 plays next year (2 of them actually) we have thomas and Vrabel who we know can defend the run, cover, and rush the QB. In the best of all scenarios, replacing one with Jason Taylor will mean that we are worse against the run, worse in coverage, and there may be 2 times during the year out of those 1000 plays that he gets a sack and thomas or Vrabel wouldnt have.


Last year Taylor had:
56 tackles, (47 solo, 9 assist) 11 sacks and 4 passes defensed
Thomas had 78 (57,21) 6.5 and 8 (he also had 6 of those in the last 7 games when he played OLB instead of ILB, and added 2 more in 3 playoff games) so that is actually 8 sacks in 10 games at OLB which would equal 13 over a 16 game schedule
Vrable had 77(55,22) 12.5 and 0


Exactly what would we be improving by adding Taylor to this team?

One final thing, please avoid the 'he gets lots of pressure' argument because it has been shown over and over again that the amount of pressure a guy gets is almost exactly the same as the number of sacks he gets, in other words there really isnt such a thing as one guy who gets more pressure than another guy who gets just as many sacks.

Aging player, not nearly as productive as people want to think he is, coming out of a culture that was 1-15, with character and attitude problems who thinks he is a star, who is no better than what we already have at the position. Why do people want to acquire him again?

Damn Andy you just broke it down...but I still think that it would be nice to add Taylor to the team. I also think that you make a good point.
 
Re: Jason Taylor situation heats up considerably: no workouts, minicamp, or training

my chargers are rumored to be interested in him

but i sure as hell don't want him , guy's a great player but not worth the price to not only get him, but pay him.

pats trading the 2nd rounder sd traded to NE, makes perfect sense for NE though, but would miami do an in-division trade again after welker?

taylor's still got potential to be a nfl D mvp, i'm not hating on the guy's skills at all, i just don't see how he fits into the chargers D currently.
 
Re: Jason Taylor situation heats up considerably: no workouts, minicamp, or training

Jason Taylor-DL-Dolphins May. 22 - 10:50 pm et

The Dolphins have already denied an unnamed team's offer of a fourth-round pick in exchange for Jason Taylor, according to the Washington Post.

Bill Parcells can do better. Taylor is aging, but should have at least one season of Pro Bowl-caliber play left in him. He says he's in the best shape of his life after training hard for Dancing with the Stars. The Post notes that the Redskins are not interested in Taylor. The fourth-rounder may have been offered by San Diego.

http://www.rotoworld.com/Content/home_NFL.aspx

I wonder if our 3rd rounder would get the deal done, I personally would give up a 3rd rounder for Taylor considering we have two 2nd round picks next year.
 
Re: Jason Taylor situation heats up considerably: no workouts, minicamp, or training

i'm surprised if it was AJ who offered the 4th

to think parcells would be that stupid, that's a slap in the face from the chargers if it was them
 
Re: Jason Taylor situation heats up considerably: no workouts, minicamp, or training

Taylors stats last year mean nothing, just like Moss' stats in Oakland meant nothing, and Dillons final stats in cincy meant nothing. When players come to the patriots they become MOTIVATED. They elevate their game because they are playing with the best and have a chance for a ring. If Taylor came here he would blow up, his stats would be through the roof, a hungry Taylor playing on the Pats for a ring are you kidding me? Did you see how 75 year old Seau played for crying out loud? lol. Taylor had a down year last year, his team was in the gutter they went 1-15, he wasnt motivated he was fed up. He didnt play his best ball. He would destroy people here! I love what BB could do with him too, start him at OLB and rotate Vrable in, play some 4-3 looks with Taylor at DE like we do with Thomas, could even play more 4-3 with Mayo in the middle. Only a neanderthal wouldnt want Taylor on the pats, id give up a 2nd or 3rd in the heartbeat. Still hoping he gets cut though and we sign him for free.
 
Re: Jason Taylor situation heats up considerably: no workouts, minicamp, or training

Taylors stats last year mean nothing, just like Moss' stats in Oakland meant nothing, and Dillons final stats in cincy meant nothing. When players come to the patriots they become MOTIVATED. They elevate their game because they are playing with the best and have a chance for a ring. If Taylor came here he would blow up, his stats would be through the roof, a hungry Taylor playing on the Pats for a ring are you kidding me? Did you see how 75 year old Seau played for crying out loud? lol. Taylor had a down year last year, his team was in the gutter they went 1-15, he wasnt motivated he was fed up. He didnt play his best ball. He would destroy people here! I love what BB could do with him too, start him at OLB and rotate Vrable in, play some 4-3 looks with Taylor at DE like we do with Thomas, could even play more 4-3 with Mayo in the middle. Only a neanderthal wouldnt want Taylor on the pats, id give up a 2nd or 3rd in the heartbeat. Still hoping he gets cut though and we sign him for free.

I hear what you're saying, but do you want him if it's going to include a big dollar multi year contract? Moss came here for a bargain. If Taylor wants to do that for a year, great. If not, I've lost interest.
 
Re: Jason Taylor situation heats up considerably: no workouts, minicamp, or training

Aging player, not nearly as productive as people want to think he is, coming out of a culture that was 1-15, with character and attitude problems who thinks he is a star, who is no better than what we already have at the position. Why do people want to acquire him again?

If you add the words disgrutled WR to the end of this statement it would describe Moss.

Taylor is a HOF type player, he is atheletic and understands football. One stat I didn't see in your lst was his INTs, he has 3 INTs for TDs in the past 2 seasons.

Thomas had never played ILB and he made the switch, other players have made the position changes. I think you are overstating the jump to OLB.
 
Re: Jason Taylor situation heats up considerably: no workouts, minicamp, or training

The other part of this to me is that Taylor is extremely overrated. Taylor today is not Taylor of 2003, 2004, 2005, 2006. When you are 33 years old you also arent even the guy you were when you were 32 in the NFL.
Taylor has always, imo, been a guy who sacrifices everything to rush the QB. Thats not so much a knock, as it is a statement of his abilities. His best use is as a one gap, rush the QB and worry about the run if you find it along the way, kind of guy. He has been used in that role, because he is not a good run defender.
When you translate it to our system its even more severe.
He must change positions. We simply NEVER will play a 255 lb player at DE in our system. He will have to convert to OLB. Before anyone suggests he has played OLB before, he hasn't. When Saban was their Taylor would be moved around to different alignments in order to help him rush the QB from different places on the field. That is NOTHING like BEING a 34 OLB. He may have line up in that spot at times, but all he was doing was being a standup DE who was told to onegap rush the QB. (sort of like when BB has aligned Vrabel at NT. do we really think Vrabel has 'played NT')
His numbers are declining, as are his skills. At 33 EVERYONE in the NFL except QBs or maybe WRs and an OL here and there are at a point where their skills are in decline.
Wanting Taylor brought here is the classic example of why so many teams have failed in FA.....acquiring a player because of what he was in his prime, after he is no longer in his prime.
Last year he had a career low in tackles.
I know, everyone is in love with sack stastistics (everyoine except me I guess) but lets really break that down.
The comments I read suggest that if Taylor were he he would single-handedly prevent any team from ever being able to throw on us, no one could block him, and he would spend all day sacking the QB.
Well, in HALF OF HIS GAMES LAST YEAR HE REGISTERED ZERO SACKS. In about 1/3 (5 of 16) he had One. In 3 games against the weak Jets, ravens, and Texans he had 2.
Do we need 2 sacks from Jason Taylor to beat the weak teams in the NFL? What value does he have when, a year younger, he couldn't get a sack at all in half of his games?
How do those sack numbers make up for being unable to play any position in our system properly, or being able to defend the run?
taylor also had less than 5 tackles in 10 of the 16 games too, including assists.
We need an OLB to play about 1000 plays next year (2 of them actually) we have thomas and Vrabel who we know can defend the run, cover, and rush the QB. In the best of all scenarios, replacing one with Jason Taylor will mean that we are worse against the run, worse in coverage, and there may be 2 times during the year out of those 1000 plays that he gets a sack and thomas or Vrabel wouldnt have.


Last year Taylor had:
56 tackles, (47 solo, 9 assist) 11 sacks and 4 passes defensed
Thomas had 78 (57,21) 6.5 and 8 (he also had 6 of those in the last 7 games when he played OLB instead of ILB, and added 2 more in 3 playoff games) so that is actually 8 sacks in 10 games at OLB which would equal 13 over a 16 game schedule
Vrable had 77(55,22) 12.5 and 0


Exactly what would we be improving by adding Taylor to this team?

One final thing, please avoid the 'he gets lots of pressure' argument because it has been shown over and over again that the amount of pressure a guy gets is almost exactly the same as the number of sacks he gets, in other words there really isnt such a thing as one guy who gets more pressure than another guy who gets just as many sacks.

Aging player, not nearly as productive as people want to think he is, coming out of a culture that was 1-15, with character and attitude problems who thinks he is a star, who is no better than what we already have at the position. Why do people want to acquire him again?

AJ,

I think BB & the Pats have faired pretty well acquiring guys "past their prime" since Belichik came here, don't you?

I can think of Corey Dillon, Junior Seau, Roman Pfifer, Anthony Pleasant, Christian Fauria, David Patten, Brian Cox, Antowain Smith, Otis Smith...should I go on?:rolleyes:

I don't think Jason Taylor would be any different.
 
Re: Jason Taylor situation heats up considerably: no workouts, minicamp, or training

AJ,

I think BB & the Pats have faired pretty well acquiring guys "past their prime" since Belichik came here, don't you?

I can think of Corey Dillon, Junior Seau, Roman Pfifer, Anthony Pleasant, Christian Fauria, David Patten, Brian Cox, Antowain Smith, Otis Smith...should I go on?:rolleyes:

I don't think Jason Taylor would be any different.
If it can be done cheaply both compensation and salary and NOT be done to teh expense of young LBs development..than what is WRONG with that? I'm not totally enthusiastic..nor do I want to dismiss the possibility either...
 
Re: Jason Taylor situation heats up considerably: no workouts, minicamp, or training

If you add the words disgrutled WR to the end of this statement it would describe Moss.

Taylor is a HOF type player, he is atheletic and understands football. One stat I didn't see in your lst was his INTs, he has 3 INTs for TDs in the past 2 seasons.

Thomas had never played ILB and he made the switch, other players have made the position changes. I think you are overstating the jump to OLB.

With some KEY differences, the first being that Moss IS clearly better than anyone we had at the position.
Moss was not a salary cap issue and took a pay cut to come here. I dont think Taylor will do that, in fact, I expect him to ask for more money if he gets traded.

Its just ludicrous to argue that one player changed positions so changing positions is no big deal. Not to mention the fact that moving from OLB to ILB is a much less drastic change than from DE ina one gap 43 to OLB in a 2gap 34. Its not a matter of whether or not its possible to make the position change, its a matter of whether the player has the ability to do it.

While I am sure that most Taylor supporters think that he comes in here and gets a dozen sacks and it was a great move. That is not correct. While a one gap 43 DE can be defined by his sack total, and that scheme accepts his run D failures, if we brought him in and put him at OLB, those sacks are about 20% of his job, and he will be awful at the other 80%.

Why do you think that BB plays guys like Vrabel, Thomas, McGinest, etc at OLB? They are the biggest OLBs in the league, and FAR from the fastest or best sheer pass rushers? Because he values COMPLETE players. Taylor is not a complete player. And lets please leave him receiving an award out of this, its all based on ONE stat in a system that tells him to worry about nothing but that stat.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.


New Patriots WR Javon Baker: ‘You ain’t gonna outwork me’
Friday Patriots Notebook 5/3: News and Notes
Thursday Patriots Notebook 5/2: News and Notes
Wednesday Patriots Notebook 5/1: News and Notes
TRANSCRIPT: Jerod Mayo’s Appearance on WEEI On Monday
Tuesday Patriots Notebook 4/30: News and Notes
TRANSCRIPT: Drake Maye’s Interview on WEEI on Jones & Mego with Arcand
MORSE: Rookie Camp Invitees and Draft Notes
Patriots Get Extension Done with Barmore
Monday Patriots Notebook 4/29: News and Notes
Back
Top