Jacoby Brissett Appreciation Station

[Tunescribe]

Brissett looks better to me than JG did as a rookie. That's not to say he will develop similarly, JG always had the lightning quick release. But in a game that mattered, JB was completely under control whereas JG ran around like a chicken with it's head cut off at times on garbage time (although his numbers were solid) . I liked both Js, two years later JG has really matured. JB has less maturing to do but lots of work to do. I am confident JB will be a strong backup next year after we cash in on JG.

What "game that mattered" did Garoppolo start his rookie season? You're on really thin ice attempting to compare these two on snapshots of initial regular-season game performance. JB was comfortable with what he was given to do, which was limited. Your observation that Garoppolo "ran around like a chicken with its head cut off at times on garbage time" is pure nonsense, not accounting for circumstance, situation or opponent, then you contradict that by saying his numbers were solid. If you're trying to project that Brissett will be a better quarterback than Garoppolo in two years, I'll take that bet right now. I think the Patriots should do whatever they can to keep him as Brady's successor, enough of this "cashing in" blather.

 

[Tony2046]

Digging around to see how JB compared to the other 5 QB's who made their first start under BB.

All the QB's who made their first start under BB. 5 had no interceptions. As @JMC00 pointed out all were wins. Pass attempts seems to be contingent to years in the league except Eric Zeier who had the most attempts out of the 6 and the only interception. Out of the 6 JB had the least amount of time within a system.

BB has won with starting QB's in a variety of ways. With Defense, Offense, Special Teams, Rushing and Passing. It is what it is.

Pro Football Statistics and History | Pro-Football-Reference.com


2001 (2nd year in the league 200) 177 yards rushing. / +4 turnovers ( 3 int (thanks 5 head) 1 fumble)


2015 (Just for comparison) 80 yards rushing. / +1 turnovers (1 int)


2008 (4th year in the league 2005) 126 yards rushing / -1 turnovers (Pats 2 fumbles)


2016 (3rd year in the league 2014) 106 yards rushing / -2 turnovers (Pats 2 fumbles)


2016 (First year in the league) 185 yards rushing / +3 turnovers (1 int / 2 fumbles)


1992 Browns (3rd year in the league 1990) 31 yards rushing / +5 turnovers (3 int/2 fumbles)


1995 Browns (First year in the league 1995) 179 yards rushing/ +2 turnovers (2 int/2 fumbles)

 

[BelichickFan]

Two other things, one, I love JB but want no part of him being the backup until 2017. Once TB12 returns we should have the best #1, best #2 and best #3 QB in the NFL. Think about THAT. Second I read a post draft article about JG and someone in the meeting said he would be perfect for the Patriots the way he retained information - that has played out. Ironically, the Browns were said to really like JB, they took a QB soon after - I have no doubt JB is who they wanted.

 

[BelichickFan]

What "game that mattered" did Garoppolo start his rookie season? You're on really thin ice attempting to compare these two on snapshots of initial regular-season game performance. JB was comfortable with what he was given to do, which was limited. Your observation that Garoppolo "ran around like a chicken with its head cut off at times on garbage time" is pure nonsense, not accounting for circumstance, situation or opponent, then you contradict that by saying his numbers were solid. If you're trying to project that Brissett will be a better quarterback than Garoppolo in two years, I'll take that bet right now. I think the Patriots should do whatever they can to keep him as Brady's successor, enough of this "cashing in" blather.

I never mentioned a game that mattered for JG. I referenced garbage time. You're making so many assumptions about what I said, it's sad. They both had pros and cons, JG fixed his, we'll see about JB. But if one had to start a regular season game as a rookie, JB looked more ready - as he should coming from a power five conference.

 

[GodBrady]

While I think JB deserves praise for stepping up in a difficult situation this early on, I don't see what a lot of you guys seem to see in him.

He might become a really good QB, but last night didn't provide any real evidence of that in my opinion. Coaching, defense, OL+running game won that game. JB obviously did his part, but he wasn't asked to do a lot.

He can move. no doubt, and he has a strong arm, but I think it was also clear that precision and touch on his passes are not that great. These things will surely get better with time, but his strength is clearly is ability to run. And maybe that is where I'm a bit biased, since I prefer pocket passers. Which again might be why I a lot higher on Jimmy than JB.

Maybe I'm missing something?

I completely agree. Some of the reactions are absurd. The kid looked "special"? Come on. Give me a break.

Brisset completed only 57.9% of his passes, barely broke 100 yards (103), and averaged only 5.42 Y/A for a passer rating of 72.9 (league average is 89.1). This was like textbook definition of "game-managing". He was also barely tested at all, mostly because the Texans committed a couple of massive mistakes (special teams turnovers) early on that helped make this a lopsided game.

He of course showed some nice poise, and some of his runs were impressive, but overall this was a very boring performance of a player that was just along for the ride. It's hard to credit his composure when his composure was hardly tested.

We don't need to attach a romanticized narrative to this story about how heroic Brissett for stepping up on short notice. Let's just call a duck a duck. A third-string rookie quarterback aided by some beneficial turnovers and a stellar defensive performance performed.... about how you'd expect a third-string rookie quarterback in that situation to perform.

 

[Tunescribe]

I never mentioned a game that mattered for JG. I referenced garbage time. You're making so many assumptions about what I said, it's sad. They both had pros and cons, JG fixed his, we'll see about JB. But if one had to start a regular season game as a rookie, JB looked more ready - as he should coming from a power five conference.

OK, you're making comparisons of and drawing conclusions from performances in "a game that mattered" for Brissett and "garbage time" for Garoppolo. This makes no sense. Neither does your conclusion of Brissett looking "more ready" to play as a rookie when you really have nothing to compare it to in Garoppolo via preparation or circumstance. Whatever college conference either came from is completely irrelevant.

 

[Ring 6]

I really want to know what he said to BB as he handed the ball to him.

If he said something to the effect of, 'Thanks for the opportunity, coach" I want him to marry one of my daughters.

BB told him all week protect the ball don't give it to the Texans. He said, you told me don't give it to the Texans, here it is, or something to that effect.

 

[BelichickFan]

OK, you're making comparisons of and drawing conclusions from performances in "a game that mattered" for Brissett and "garbage time" for Garoppolo. This makes no sense. Neither does your conclusion of Brissett looking "more ready" to play as a rookie when you really have nothing to compare it to in Garoppolo via preparation or circumstance. Whatever college conference either came from is completely irrelevant.

I just gave my opinion that JB was more ready. It's not a big deal. JB also has a long way to go, that will play out in a few years.

 

[The Gr8est]

If we're thinking of the same pass, the issue there wasn't that it was a bad decision, but rather that it was a poorly placed throw. If he leads Bennett a little more, Bennett's the only one in position to make a play on the ball.

Actually, on that play I thought he could have pulled it down and run it in.

He may have taken a hit if he did though, so under the circumstances, it was probably not a bad idea not to.

The red zone was the area where JB was the weakest and where his lack of experience showed. I'm just glad he protected the ball and at least allowed the Pats to get FGs.

Brady likely would have done, unsurprisingly, much better in those circumstances.

 

[Tunescribe]

I just gave my opinion that JB was more ready. It's not a big deal. JB also has a long way to go, that will play out in a few years.

It's fine that you like Brissett, I do too. I just find that people are projecting waaaaaay to much onto his potential because he was an adequate placeholder last night and because they want to "cash in" on Garoppolo, figuring Brady will play at a high level into his forties. Right now, I think trading Garoppolo would be a huge mistake for the franchise.

 

[fnordcircle]

If you're trying to project that Brissett will be a better quarterback than Garoppolo in two years, I'll take that bet right now.

In two years? No. Jacoby won't be starting for at least 3-4 years. But I'd happily take a 'winner chooses the losers post signatures for a year' bet that Jacoby will end up with the better career if he's the heir apparent to Brady. So that's a 10 year long bet but I'm game.

 

[Soul_Survivor88]

What "game that mattered" did Garoppolo start his rookie season? You're on really thin ice attempting to compare these two on snapshots of initial regular-season game performance. JB was comfortable with what he was given to do, which was limited. Your observation that Garoppolo "ran around like a chicken with its head cut off at times on garbage time" is pure nonsense, not accounting for circumstance, situation or opponent, then you contradict that by saying his numbers were solid. If you're trying to project that Brissett will be a better quarterback than Garoppolo in two years, I'll take that bet right now. I think the Patriots should do whatever they can to keep him as Brady's successor, enough of this "cashing in" blather.

I agree. The question is: does Jimmy want to play here?

Think about it for a second. New England is the toughest, harshest market in all of professional sports. Would someone trying to make a name for himself, want to face endless criticism, and negative comparisons with Tom Brady?

If I was Jimmy G's friend, I would try to encourage him to sign with the Bears. The scrutiny there would not be nearly as rough, and he would be welcomed as a hometown hero. If he can grow to become an elite quarterback (which I'm confident he will) then all of Chicago will worship the ground he walks on.

Either way, I don't think he prefers playing here. That's just my personal guess.

 

[BelichickFan]

I just find that people are projecting waaaaaay to much onto his potential

Ironically I didn't do that. Moving on.

 

[fnordcircle]

@Tunescribe - Can you help with the math on keeping JimmyG?

Does the team bench/trade/cut Brady if Brady wants to play for 3 more seasons?

Does Jimmy want to take less to play less over those 2 seasons? I can't imagine a scenario where the Pats would pay Jimmy full market value to sit on the bench for 16-32 games during which his cap hit would weaken our overall team.

I'm hopeful for the best from Jacoby but obviously right now Jimmy is the superior candidate to take over for Brady, but the math just doesn't add up. Maybe Jimmy would take less $$ to play here but would he want to spend the first 6-7 years of his career sitting behind Brady who is likely to push the limit on how long he can go before riding off into the sunset? If no then the only options I see are either trading Jimmy or moving Brady.

 

[fnordcircle]

 

[BelichickFan]

Agree with fnordcircle, if TB12 plays out his contact JG moves on, period, he won't ride the bench the rest of this year and three more.

 

[PatsFanSince74]

Brissett is a rookie who's been in the NFL for, what, six months? He's had Starter's reps with the First Team in practice for, what, three days?

He executed. He made no mistakes that cost the Pats the ball; the only plays on which I think you could fault him were a throw to Bennett and having too much heat on the ball in a throw to Edelman in the End Zone that could have been a TD. Otherwise, if the guy wasn't open, the ball was either in the dirt or in the Gatorade bucket.

He was the leading rusher and scorer until Blount turned it on in the second half. He never flinched and deked past a defender to score like a big time Running Back.

He was playing from behind a makeshift line, against a D that, until last night, most people considered elite with perhaps the best player ever at his position in J.J. Watt. If he was afraid, he didn't show it...and, if he wasn't afraid, he isn't human...

So, to all of those who are criticizing him, well, if Garoppolo had played like that after two years of understudying Brady, I'd say you have a point...but, for now, something about where the grass doesn't grow.

 

[Tunescribe]

@Tunescribe - Can you help with the math on keeping JimmyG?

Does the team bench/trade/cut Brady if Brady wants to play for 3 more seasons?

Does Jimmy want to take less to play less over those 2 seasons? I can't imagine a scenario where the Pats would pay Jimmy full market value to sit on the bench for 16-32 games during which his cap hit would weaken our overall team.

I'm hopeful for the best from Jacoby but obviously right now Jimmy is the superior candidate to take over for Brady, but the math just doesn't add up. Maybe Jimmy would take less $$ to play here but would he want to spend the first 6-7 years of his career sitting behind Brady who is likely to push the limit on how long he can go before riding off into the sunset? If no then the only options I see are either trading Jimmy or moving Brady.

Everything right now is conjecture. I just don't think -- like many here do -- it's a foregone conclusion that Garoppolo must be traded. Nor do I believe it's a foregone conclusion that Brady will be playing to a high level at age 41. When you have a young QB like Garoppolo who did what he did vs. Arizona and Miami and exhibits the skill set/smarts/decision making he possesses, you have a prospective starting player for the next 10 years at football's most important position. That is worth sacrificing for, IMHO.

I'd look at trying to find a way to finagle it financially, but I agree the odds are against it working if Jimmy opts for the richest payday in 2018 and doesn't care who's writing the checks. The question then becomes what is more important to the team -- a couple more years of Brady (most likely in decline), or 10 years of probably ANOTHER franchise quarterback. Nobody loves Tom and what he's done for the team more than I do, but I'd bite the bullet, keep Jimmy and move Tom. What's best for the team always takes priority. This might be the hardest personnel move of BB's career, assuming he's still coaching when that decision looms.

Another thought I've had is that Josh McD might be in line to succeed BB, and if there's a tacit agreement in place for that you can bet Josh would covet keeping Jimmy.

 

[Galeb]

Everything right now is conjecture. I just don't think -- like many here do -- it's a foregone conclusion that Garoppolo must be traded. Nor do I believe it's a foregone conclusion that Brady will be playing to a high level at age 41. When you have a young QB like Garoppolo who did what he did vs. Arizona and Miami and exhibits the skill set/smarts/decision making he possesses, you have a prospective starting player for the next 10 years at football's most important position. That is worth sacrificing for, IMHO.

I'd look at trying to find a way to finagle it financially, but I agree the odds are against it working if Jimmy opts for the richest payday in 2018 and doesn't care who's writing the checks. The question then becomes what is more important to the team -- a couple more years of Brady (most likely in decline), or 10 years of probably ANOTHER franchise quarterback. Nobody loves Tom and what he's done for the team more than I do, but I'd bite the bullet, keep Jimmy and move Tom. What's best for the team always takes priority. This might be the hardest personnel move of BB's career, assuming he's still coaching when that decision looms.

Brady's cap hit over the next two years if he leaves is too high. Keeping Garapolo would be too cost restrictive after 2017. The window at which Brady continues to play at a high level might* not last more than a couple of years, but it certainly gives the Patriots the best chance to win the Superbowl over the next couple of years. I hope BB wouldn't trade that for seriously sabotaging the teams over the next two years plus 8 additional years of likely decent-good QB play.

Besides simply giving the Pats the best chance to win over the next 2 years, Brady, a very durable, tough QB that trains/eats like no other and relies little on athletic ability, could potentially play at a high level for longer than any QB has before. I genuinely believe that if he avoids serious injury to his throwing arm/shoulder or back, he could play at a high level well into his mid 40s.

Let's not forget about JB. He's made tremendous progress since the start of TC. A QB of his reported intellect, athleticism/size, work ethic and obvious coachability has a pretty good chance of excelling after a few years developing in this system.

You could hedge your bets, keep JG for a year to see if Brady maintains his performance and risk getting just a comp pick or you could try the old franchise tag and try to trade him, but the tag severely limits a trading team's leverage and likely compensation.

I'd like to see the Pats go for all the marbles; bet on Brady's longevity, continue the pipeline of developing young QBs with high upside, and hope you hit on both while getting the best compensation you can for JG. Not only does this give the Pats the best chance to win over the next couple of years, they get good compensation for JG and the potential to still have good-elite QB over the next several years. In the unlikely event that neither works out, it's still a wash as you didn't hamstring your immediate chances at Superbowls. I have great trust in Brady and the coaching staff and believe that the system and locker room give the Pats a great chance of developing good QBs. Fortune favors the bold.

 

[Tunescribe]

Brady's cap hit over the next two years if he leaves is too high. Keeping Garapolo would be too cost restrictive after 2017. The window at which Brady continues to play at a high level might* not last more than a couple of years, but it certainly gives the Patriots the best chance to win the Superbowl over the next couple of years. I hope BB wouldn't trade that for seriously sabotaging the teams over the next two years plus 8 additional years of likely decent-good QB play.

Besides simply giving the Pats the best chance to win over the next 2 years, Brady, a very durable, tough QB that trains/eats like no other and relies little on athletic ability, could potentially play at a high level for longer than any QB has before. I genuinely believe that if he avoids serious injury to his throwing arm/shoulder or back, he could play at a high level well into his mid 40s.

Let's not forget about JB. He's made tremendous progress since the start of TC. A QB of his reported intellect, athleticism/size, work ethic and obvious coachability has a pretty good chance of excelling after a few years developing in this system.

You could hedge your bets, keep JG for a year to see if Brady maintains his performance and risk getting just a comp pick or you could try the old franchise tag and try to trade him, but the tag severely limits a trading team's leverage and likely compensation.

I'd like to see the Pats go for all the marbles; bet on Brady's longevity, continue the pipeline of developing young QBs with high upside, and hope you hit on both while getting the best compensation you can for JG. Not only does this give the Pats the best chance to win over the next couple of years, they get good compensation for JG and the potential to still have good-elite QB over the next several years. In the unlikely event that neither works out, it's still a wash as you didn't hamstring your immediate chances at Superbowls. I have great trust in Brady and the coaching staff and believe that the system and locker room give the Pats a great chance of developing good QBs. Fortune favors the bold.

A totally logical and reasonable perspective. But for me, the wildcard remains whether the team believes Garoppolo is a special talent that warrants taking extraordinary measures.