Is Mayo elite?

[Deus Irae]

Again, it would appear you are on an island (with the other 25%) who would define elite down.

Neither you, nor anyone else, has offered a hard and fast number of players that you think should define "elite". Here's the definition:

e·lite
  elite pronunciation [ih-leet, ey-leet]
noun
1.
(often used with a plural verb) the choice or best of anything considered collectively, as of a group or class of persons.

Unless you're arguing to make "elite" in the ILB world a class of one (Willis), Mayo falls into the elite class.

 

[mb6592]

Neither you, nor anyone else, has offered a hard and fast number of players that you think should define "elite". Here's the definition:



Unless you're arguing to make "elite" in the ILB world a class of one (Willis), Mayo falls into the elite class.

Yeah Deus, I guess when I think "elite" I think Tippett, Brady, Manning, Brees, Seymour, Wilfork, Reed, Rodney Harrison. Elite in this sense is not relative. If no one fits because a particular position is week, then no one is elite in my book. So a party of one? Sure.

I would put Mayo in the Vrabel category - very good, almost great, but not elite. Probably just a clash over nuance.

 

[TriplecHamp]

So can we put Eli in Tom Brady's class now?

 

[Deus Irae]

Yeah Deus, I guess when I think "elite" I think Tippett, Brady, Manning, Brees, Seymour, Wilfork, Reed, Rodney Harrison. Elite in this sense is not relative. If no one fits because a particular position is week, then no one is elite in my book. So a party of one? Sure.

I would put Mayo in the Vrabel category - very good, almost great, but not elite. Probably just a clash over nuance.

I hear you. It's tough to really break down the "best of the best" into an even smaller group and find the right words for all the categories. I've had that issue with the QBs, when it comes to the top 5. In the recent past (prior to this season), I've tended to view them like this:

Brady



Manning/Brees


Rodgers/Rivers/Roethlisberger


To me, that's been the top 6, pretty clearly, but I've felt as if there were a 3 subcategory grouping there. Using that, I couldn't really say Manning isn't elite, since the guy's going to be in the HOF as a top 15 all-time QB, but I look at Brady as the GOAT/top 5 kind of guy.

I look at the ILBs in a somewhat similar situation, with Willis clearly being the best, but Mayo and Lewis still being better than the next group, and not so far behind Willis that it's unfair to lump them together.

 

[LetsGoPats36]

"Do your job"

Simply doing your job does not equal elite and the notion that BB's system restricts players from intercepting passes, forcing fumbles, effectively pass rushing and anything else you want to classify as making a big play is one of the most ******ed things I've ever heard.

This point was a little bit better than the last post I quoted, though.

 

[Sciz]

Have you seriously twisted your brain around to believe this crap?

Yeah, our players aren't supposed to make impact plays in BB's defense. Great point.

BB: "Forget making any kind of big play, singularly focus on tackles!"

Jerod: "Perfect! It's impossible to make a big play in your system, anyway"

Straw man - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

If you want any better of a playmaker, you're going to have to go to a guy who (at least according to last season's stats) missed tackles at least 3 times as often as Mayo. At what point do the extra missed tackles outweigh the big plays? That's the argument, not your "forget big plays" crap.

 

[Deus Irae]

Simply doing your job does not equal elite and the notion that BB's system restricts players from intercepting passes, forcing fumbles, effectively pass rushing and anything else you want to classify as making a big play is one of the most ******ed things I've ever heard.

This point was a little bit better than the last post I quoted, though.

"Do your job" was a response to your post, and surely you understand that style of play, and doing your job in some styles of play, will lead to certain things being emphasized over others. Perhaps if you go back and re-read your own post, you'll understand the point I was trying to get across. You see, while you're were making up quotes, I was using a quote of something that BB actually preaches. "Do your job" may not be sexy, but it's what he preaches. Feel free to go back and listen/read some of Rodney's old interviews, especially the one(s) involving freelancing.

 

[SanAngeloState]

Elite? Not even close. He's a gentleman's B maybe. Doesn't make game changing plays. Just tackles people 4 yards downfield, which is better than letting them get further, which is what Guyton would do as he ole'd them.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Elite? Not even close. He's a gentleman's B maybe. Doesn't make game changing plays. Just tackles people 4 yards downfield, which is better than letting them get further, which is what Guyton would do as he ole'd them.

So essentially you are saying that the only difference b/t/w Mayo and Guyton is that Guyton doesn't make the tackle.

Mayo may not be Patrick Willis, Ray Lewis elite but to compare his level of talent and production to a backup like Guyton is absurd.

 

[BaltimorePatsFan]

So can we put Eli in Tom Brady's class now?

As they all say, you can't spell "elite" without "Eli."

 

[sbpatfan]

This is how I see it...

Tier 1: Ray Lewis, Patrick Willis
Tier 2: Jerod Mayo, Jon Beason, David Harris, Lawrence Timmons like LBs..

 

[LetsGoPats36]

Belichick's defense is focused much less on big plays and much more on a player just doing his job.

Quoted for posterity.

Guess we should go back and tell Bruschi to make less interceptions, sacks, and forced fumbles in the Super Bowl years because it was outside his "job description". Same with Mike Vrabel, why they hell did he get so many sacks? Stupid Ty Law making all those interceptions, you were just supposed to cover the receiver! I know Seymour was good at rushing the passer in addition to occupying two offensive linemen so the LBs could roam free, but I'd just rather have him try to successfully do the latter.

If you want any better of a playmaker, you're going to have to go to a guy who (at least according to last season's stats) missed tackles at least 3 times as often as Mayo. At what point do the extra missed tackles outweigh the big plays? That's the argument, not your "forget big plays" crap.

If you want those stats to matter there at least needs to be a chart of where the tackles are being made. I'd love to see a tackles for loss stat.

A baseball player that bats 300 but doesn't hit homers, rake RBIs, or score runs is a useful player doing his job, not elite.

Ted Johnson in his day = great tackler, not close to elite

There is a big pack of LBs Mayo hasn't separated himself from yet. Willis is a clear cut #1, guys like Urlacher and Ray Lewis are still considerably ahead of Mayo when healthy. He is somewhere in the Brian Cushing, David Harris, Jon Beason, Lawrence Timmons group. Vets like Fletcher and Farrior are arguably still more effective.

Saying that doing your job isn't a focal point of a large percentage of other defenses around the league is blindly ignorant. Of course everyone teaches doing your f*cking job. It's the elite guys that can do their job effectively and then some. Every defense ultimately aims at getting turnovers and pressuring the quarterback. When you're not seriously aiding that effort, you're never gonna be elite.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Ted Johnson in his day = great tackler, not close to elite

Excellent correlation on production/value to the team. From 1996-1998 Johnson meant a lot to that defense. When he was out, the run D suffered greatly. Johnson and Mayo play a different game wheres I see Spikes more of a thumper than Mayo but from a production/value standpoint, when Johnson got injured the Pats run D suffered greatly. I think when Mayo is out, the D does lose a ton of speed in the front 7 and 2 to 3 yard runs seem to turn into 4-5 yard runs.

 

[WaterfallJumper]

Two straight games with an interception. opcorn:

 

[Betterthanmost]

Sorry guys, poll is not changeable.

 

[CanadianPat'sFan]

Two straight games with an interception. opcorn:

Yea just the game winning INT...no big deal or game changing by any means

 

[Patsfan1102]

Mayo not a playmaker...right. Only the best tackler in the league also...

 

[everlong]

The Skins game was not Mayo's best in spite of the interception and 6 tackles. It will be interesting to watch the replay and see how much of this was the Skins game planning for him. They sealed him off quite a few times. I thought White played a very solid game, perhaps his best as a Patriot. He might have had opportunities because of the focus on Mayo. Again not sure until I re-watch the game but watching the game those were my impressions.

 

[757PatsFan]

Ok lets not act like Mayo is now elite because he made an athletic play to catch the ball that was coming in his direction anyway. I bet many of us on this forum could have made that play. The interception against the colts was far more impressive because he read orlovsky and laid out completly where as moss gave him a gift yesterday

 

[TheGodInAGreyHoodie]

Ok lets not act like Mayo is now elite because he made an athletic play to catch the ball that was coming in his direction anyway. I bet many of us on this forum could have made that play. The interception against the colts was far more impressive because he read orlovsky and laid out completly where as moss gave him a gift yesterday

I would take that bet. A few maybe, many no.