Is loyalty to players a problem in New England?

Discussion in ' - Patriots Fan Forum' started by Trowa, Mar 27, 2007.

  1. Trowa

    Trowa Rookie

    Let me first begin by saying that I'm a Dolphins fan and have been since 1990. However, I'm also a football fan and am always up for a good conversation about any team. That's just an extended way of saying I'm not a troll. :)

    Every team loses veteran players, it's unavoidable in the NFL but it seems as the Pats have lost more than anyone else over the past 5 seasons. And not just veterans but fan favorites and key players and in some cases marquee players. So my question is, is loyalty to the players a problem in New England? It seems like players are brought in, work out their contract, and then are let go on a regular basis. Vinatieri won 3 Super Bowls and was allowed to walk. Troy Brown has been with the Pats forever and they let him go.

    So what I'd like to know is if this is really an issue. How do the fans feel about it and do you think it has an affect on acquiring free agents? Obviously it doesn't since you got Thomas and Stallworth. So it would seem players are willing to sacrifice job security to play for a winner. Is it the same feeling among fans? That as long as they're winning it doesn't matter who it is?
  2. patsgo

    patsgo Rotational Player and Threatening Starter's Job

    every team looses players every year thats the nfl today the patriots losses have been magnified because of their sucess , you cant keep players forever you use them then its time to get fresh young bolod and the patriots have been masters at it
  3. Kdo5

    Kdo5 Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

    #26 Jersey

    We've lost vets and they've gone to other teams and a majority of them have been unsuccessfull. The Pats tried to get back AV but the Colts gave him more. Troy Brown is a FA, he hasnt signed with any other team so we didnt "lose him". And when we released him after 2004 we picked him back up soon after.

    It doesnt matter to me who it is because we have proved time and time again despite pundits rants that we CAN replace players with a player of equal or near equal production.
    Last edited: Mar 27, 2007
  4. PatsWickedPissah

    PatsWickedPissah Supporter Supporter

    Disable Jersey

    The Colts lost a lot of players last year, that's why they got a couple 3rd round compensation picks.
    It's the price of success.
  5. dhamz

    dhamz In the Starting Line-Up

    In the salary cap era there is no question that loyalty to veteran players that has been shown by signing player past their prime to large $ deals has been a major problem for many teams.

    Fortunately, the Patriots do not have that problem.
  6. Remix 6

    Remix 6 Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

    if your loyal to winning and thats your #1 goal..then were loyal to you

    Winning includes working hard, team first and all that
  7. spacecrime

    spacecrime Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

    Bad observation IMO, but I'm too lazy to look up the facts to back it up. Only that I don't see us losing more players than other teams. All teams turn over aboukt 25% - 33% of their teams every year. The Pats turn over fewer than many teams. We lost two starters (I believe) this year. Graham and ... wow, who else? Last year, we lost three significant players to free agency I can think of: Givens and Vinatieri. We traded Branch. Not sure that counts as a loss, as we are better off with the first round pick IMO.

    We signed Welker and Morris from a team that should have done a better job of hlding onto its FAs :)

    Just curious: Why do you say last five years? It was six years ago (2000) that we let the largest numbers of players walk.

    Yes, that is how it works. All around the NFL anbd other sports leagues. Is that some kind of problem? What would it be?

    Players are re-signed in there is value in keeping them, let go if there is not. I don't see anything wrong with that - I think it is the only way really to keeping a team winning a lot of games.

    Just curious: Why do you put a greater premium on keeping players that are fan favorites than you do builiding the best possible team?
  8. Willie55

    Willie55 In the Starting Line-Up

    They have lost players but they have retained players also: Brady, Brown, Koppen, Light, Evans, Bruschi, Vrabel, Seymour, Izzo, etc... Every team goes through it.

    I dont mind it because not only is it the state of the NFL, but also the Pats are the model franchise right now.
  9. naclone

    naclone Practice Squad Player

    on one hand you want to watch veteran/fan-favorite guys like troy brown, willie mcginest and adam vinatieri play for your team. on the other hand you want to watch your team win. I'm happy to let Belichick and Pioli determine where those two circles intersect and when the former no longer positively impacts the latter.
  10. Trowa

    Trowa Rookie

    As was stated earlier in the thread while the Pats haven't lost the most players the players they've lost have been magnified by the success they enjoyed in New England the overall success of the Patriots in recent years. No need to get rude about things. I was just trying to ask a couple questions.

    To address the point of Morris and Welker, Morris was basically out of Miami anyway it went. With the expected return of Ricky Williams his salary would have been too high to warrant keeping him around. And as for Welker, I'll gladly take 2 draft picks for a player who proved to be a mediocre kick returner, horrible punt returner, and have no home run threat at all. In 3 years in Miami he scored 1 touchdown.

    As for your last question, I never said that I put more of a premium on fan favorite players. I was just stating that the Pats release a lot of fan favorites. Which is why I asked if fans are willing to accept that their favorite players aren't going to be around for long. And if that was okay with them as long as the team is winning.
  11. BradfordPatsFan

    BradfordPatsFan In the Starting Line-Up

    #11 Jersey

    The patriots have always approached free agency with the team's best interest in mind. They label each player with a specific value. If you accept that value, you get to stay. The list of players who were fan favorites AND who were producing at a high level who the pats just let walk or outright released with no compensation and/or without trying to resign is a short one.
  12. PromisedLand

    PromisedLand Virtual Internet Person

    I'm sorry to say it, but loyalty in business is a thing of the past. There is simply no room for nostalgia in the highly competitive world of today's global businesses in almost any field, let alone the ultracompetitive NFL where the margin between victory and defeat is razor thin.

    I wish it wasn't so, but it is. I got laid off after 30+ years of "loyal" service to one major Boston-based high-tech company - that shows you how much loyalty is worth. If you don't believe it, it is just because it hasn't happened to you - yet.

    So, is loyalty to players a problem for the Patriots? No, they don't have that problem - they know when to cut players, or bench them because they aren't performing (cough **Drew Bledsoe** cough). Being pragmatic isn't a problem, being too emotional in making business decisions can be.

    And I think most players understand that as well. Deion Branch shot his way out of town to get himself a better deal, and then told Donte Stallworth that New England was a great organization. Even Deion knows it is not personal, it is just business.
  13. zippo59

    zippo59 Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

    Many of our free agents have been seriously overpaid by other teams simply because they have been part of Superbowl winning teams. I can't blame them for leaving for the crazy amount of money they have gotten.

    But we still have/had our share of loyal players like Troy Brown, Tom Brady, Mike Vrabel, Tedy Bruschi, Rodney Harrison, and Ted Johnson. Bruschi even said that he would rather retire than play for another team besides the Patriots. If that's not loyalty I don't know what is.
  14. Brady to Brown

    Brady to Brown 2nd Team Getting Their First Start

    What he said.
  15. MrBigglesWorth

    MrBigglesWorth Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

    Name one team that has been "loyal" to it's players. the basic fact is if you produce then you'll get paid and stick around.

    The colts got rid of edge
    Would you call Vick sticking around loyal or a business motivated decision?

    it's a two way street. teams are as loyal to players as players are loyal to teams. right Deion?
  16. PatsFanInVa

    PatsFanInVa Supporter Supporter

    What we all know here is that the Pats - and increasingly, Pats fans - are just not about "favorite players," at least, not anymore.

    I know it is more and more common throughout the NFL, that players are pretty much on their own -- "free agents." It doesn't have to be hostile in most cases... both sides just know it is a business. Maybe it's sad in a way, but that's the way it is.

    Is it that way more in New England? Maybe. But let me explain what my loyalty is to - the New England Patriots, preferably winning, but also, God forbid, not winning (just can't type the "L" word the 'Phins are so familiar with.)

    Someone once said that with favorite players hopskotching all over the league, now we're rooting for the uniform -- and that's rooting for laundry. Well number 1, I DO root for our goddam laundry, if it's a choice between ours and Miami's, or wherevers.

    But number 2, the Patriots have established distinctive traditions and style - and the smartness of the coaching staff and front office are a big part of that. Whether it's "doing less with more," emphasizing team over ego, or making tough choices on the business side of the ledger, that's what defines the NE Patriots. You hear about the Steelers "traditionally" having an aggressive defense and a tough, run-first offense, for example. Well, what "traditional" style do you prep for against the Pats? You don't. That's the "tradition." You can only do that with smart, tough, versatile players, a smart staff, and full vertical integration, so the guy on the field is not an egotistical head case foisted on the coach by the management.

    You know what? I'm an old guy now (40s...) And I can root for that just as the kids actually out there getting the job done. I love those guys too, of course... and I hate it when a "favorite" leaves. Hell, I am officially a Montreal Alouettes fan this summer, because I discovered Robert Edwards is alive and well and playing there. But departing players are just part of the game.

    Where's your loyalty to Jay Fiedler? Sage Rosenfels? Sooner or later every name you hear growing up is gone, and you realize it's the team you care about. But your post was about the Pats being perceived as having no loyalty to a player. The Pats have loyalty to a model, which produces winning football. When a player has that same loyalty, we have a match.

    Last edited: Mar 27, 2007
  17. danny88

    danny88 Banned

    Where was the loyalty to wes welker!!?? Kidding. The pats are no different then any other team in the nfl that wins.
  18. Brady to Brown

    Brady to Brown 2nd Team Getting Their First Start

    The Dolphins were not awarded any Compensatory picks today. I think they should have been given the Toronto Argonauts 3rd rounder for Ricky Williams. :D
  19. spacecrime

    spacecrime Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

    Mind showing me what part of my post was rude?
  20. patriotspride

    patriotspride Banned

    your a troll but good try .your question gave you away .

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