Is Eugene Wilson the Only Patriot to Get Worse?

[SeymourTrophies]

Okay, you never qualified your statement about "getting worse". Yeah, Dillon's drop-off was due to his getting old...but that also qualifies as getting worse, no?

Yeah, but under that you would have to put Bruschi because he is worse than he once was beacause of age.....and Harrison and McGinnest.

Bethel Johnson is a yes, but I disagree with the Watson thing. He has delivered when called upon, and blocks especially well for being a receiving tight end coming in.

Seymour last year sure, but this year? He was almost put on the IR for his knee, but he came back to be a part of this potentially historic team. In the last 4 or 5 games he has been a monster. If the AFC championship game comes up on NFL network again just watch him when we're on defense. Just watch Seymour, and you'll notice he man handles Marcus McNeill every time they're matched up, and when he's lined up as a left end they can't stop him either. The stats don't indicate how well he played because he didn't get sacks, but he pushed the pocket and hurried Rivers numerous times in pivotal moments.

 

[BB4PRez]

Wrong big cat.

Oops - your right - Panther Superbowl - I should remember because I was actually there.

I definitely can't remember the names of the safeties who finished the game playing for the Pats, but, they wouldn't make this team. Wilson would be a big improvement even if he has "regressed."

 

[aluminum seats]

I'll grant that strictly speaking Bethel Johnson did decline, but come on. His high water mark for a season was 16 catches, and he was continually getting smacked down for his attitude by the coaches. I think it's a stretch to say he was much of anything and then fall off. He's just a guy that never lived up to his raw talent, there was a period of diminishing returns (literally) and then he was cut loose.

 

[JackBauer]

How about Chad Jackson?

How on earth are you going to argue that one?

 

[Real World]

Ellis Hobbs. He's regressed. He was getting torched again on Sunday. He did make an excellent tackle near the goal line though.

 

[arrellbee]

Corey Dillon

Bethel Johnson

to a lesser extent Ellis Hobbs

Ben Watson's been up and down

I had been going to make a post earlier in the year about how it seemed Watson was never going to be that good a receiver, with all of his drops. Just seemed to me he didn't have that good of hands.

Then, I saw something recently, probably posted on this board, that he has a 70% catch rate - maybe 2nd best on the team and I think maybe the best was 73% (Welker ?). This catch rate is not an official stat but one done by one of the 'more meaningful stat' sites. But that says he is actually quite good. As is human nature, I probably remember moreso the drops than all of the clutch receptions and TD catches - lol.

Anybody got a reference for that 'stat' for this year for the Pats who have caught passes ?

 

[WhiZa]

How on earth are you going to argue that one?

You really think he is better than last year?

I wasn't going to put him on the regressed list, but everyone is including players that played well at one point and then missed playing opportunities because of injury. He's one of them.

 

[JackBauer]

You really think he is better than last year?

I wasn't going to put him on the regressed list, but everyone is including players that played well at one point and then missed playing opportunities because of injury. He's one of them.

I don't think there's any way to tell. Look who's ahead of him.

 

[DaBruinz]

I had been going to make a post earlier in the year about how it seemed Watson was never going to be that good a receiver, with all of his drops. Just seemed to me he didn't have that good of hands.

Then, I saw something recently, probably posted on this board, that he has a 70% catch rate - maybe 2nd best on the team and I think maybe the best was 73% (Welker ?). This catch rate is not an official stat but one done by one of the 'more meaningful stat' sites. But that says he is actually quite good. As is human nature, I probably remember moreso the drops than all of the clutch receptions and TD catches - lol.

Anybody got a reference for that 'stat' for this year for the Pats who have caught passes ?

If you go to SI.COM, they keep tabs on how many drops and how many targets a receiver had.

Moss - 98 Catches, 159 Targets, 9 Drops, 61.6% catch
Welker -112 Catches, 145 Targets, 4 Drops, 77.2% catch
Gaffney - 36 catches, 50 Targets, 2 drops, 72% catch
Stallworth - 46 Catches, 75 Targets, 5 Drops, 61.3% catch
Watson - 36 Catches, 49 Targets, 4 Drops, 73.5% catch

WELKER, was, by far, the best receiver, catching 77.2% of the passes thrown to him.

 

[RayClay]

Richard Seymour. This guy can't play a full season anymore and I rarely see anything from him on the field.

Yeah, he had a lot of balls blowing out his knee, elbow and ankle and not playing 100%.

What a jerk.

 

[RayClay]

Bethel Johnson regressed for sure.

It is revisionist history to say he never was anything. As a rookie he was a dynamic kick returner and by the end of the year was contributing as a WR with first quarter TD catches in the regular season finale and the first playoff game.

He not only never contributed as much at WR the rest of his time as he did at the end of his rookie year, he also regressed as a KR.

He definitely didn't "get it". However, he had injuries, including starting onr srason with a pin in his ankle. He'd probably worn out his welcome by then, though.

 

[DW Toys]

I had been going to make a post earlier in the year about how it seemed Watson was never going to be that good a receiver, with all of his drops. Just seemed to me he didn't have that good of hands.

Then, I saw something recently, probably posted on this board, that he has a 70% catch rate - maybe 2nd best on the team and I think maybe the best was 73% (Welker ?). This catch rate is not an official stat but one done by one of the 'more meaningful stat' sites. But that says he is actually quite good. As is human nature, I probably remember moreso the drops than all of the clutch receptions and TD catches - lol.

Anybody got a reference for that 'stat' for this year for the Pats who have caught passes ?

It's easy to me, James Sanders. He had some good plays in 2006, stepped out of the way like a perfect gentleman to let Addai score from the four with one minute left in last years AFCC (watch the tape and tell me if I am wrong. I could not believe it!), and this year without question he is worse. He wasn't great last year. Merriweather as you can see, is starting to take some of his playing time.
How do you attack the Pats? Up over the middle of course with Teddy and Junior a little slow and nicked some, Rodney playing up a lot and with a bad wheel.....and then there was one!
He is slow(4.67), the list him at 5' 11"(what is he really 5' 9 1/2") doesn't tackle well but other than that, cannot cover either. At least he's healthy.
We need to come up with someone (draft or FA safety) to rotate with Rodney in 2008 to keep him going longer.
DW Toys

 

[MrBigglesWorth]

it is not so much that eugene regressed. he got surpassed by Sanders, Gay and Merriwether to a certain extent.

he has missed rodney the past two years and never got in a groove this year.

it's a shame, he produced early in his career. he'll be with the jets

 

[MrBigglesWorth]

It's easy to me, James Sanders. He had some good plays in 2006, stepped out of the way like a perfect gentleman to let Addai score from the four with one minute left in last years AFCC (watch the tape and tell me if I am wrong. I could not believe it!), and this year without question he is worse. He wasn't great last year. Merriweather as you can see, is starting to take some of his playing time.
How do you attack the Pats? Up over the middle of course with Teddy and Junior a little slow and nicked some, Rodney playing up a lot and with a bad wheel.....and then there was one!
He is slow(4.67), the list him at 5' 11"(what is he really 5' 9 1/2") doesn't tackle well but other than that, cannot cover either. At least he's healthy.
We need to come up with someone (draft or FA safety) to rotate with Rodney in 2008 to keep him going longer.
DW Toys

any links to the tape?

 

[DaBruinz]

It's easy to me, James Sanders. He had some good plays in 2006, stepped out of the way like a perfect gentleman to let Addai score from the four with one minute left in last years AFCC (watch the tape and tell me if I am wrong. I could not believe it!), and this year without question he is worse. He wasn't great last year. Merriweather as you can see, is starting to take some of his playing time.
How do you attack the Pats? Up over the middle of course with Teddy and Junior a little slow and nicked some, Rodney playing up a lot and with a bad wheel.....and then there was one!
He is slow(4.67), the list him at 5' 11"(what is he really 5' 9 1/2") doesn't tackle well but other than that, cannot cover either. At least he's healthy.
We need to come up with someone (draft or FA safety) to rotate with Rodney in 2008 to keep him going longer.
DW Toys

Sorry DW, but you are talking out your arse. Tottally and utterly.
First and foremost, Sanders is a damn solid tackler. Secondly, Sanders measured at 5'10 and 6/8 inches at the combine. 4.67 isn't slow for a Safety.

Meriweather isn't taking time from Sanders. Meriweather has taken time from Wilson.

You really are way off on this.

 

[MrBigglesWorth]

Sorry DW, but you are talking out your arse. Tottally and utterly.
First and foremost, Sanders is a damn solid tackler. Secondly, Sanders measured at 5'10 and 6/8 inches at the combine. 4.67 isn't slow for a Safety.

Meriweather isn't taking time from Sanders. Meriweather has taken time from Wilson.

You really are way off on this.

is he talking about sanders being bad or wilson?

sanders is darn good

 

[spacecrime]

Okay, you never qualified your statement about "getting worse". Yeah, Dillon's drop-off was due to his getting old...but that also qualifies as getting worse, no?

So you want to add Bruschi to the list, then? Troy Brown? Phifer? WMG? Law? Milloy? Ted Johnson? All had dropoffs in their later years due to age.

I think the orginal question dealt with people NOT living up to their potential, not just getting old.

 

[aluminum seats]

it is not so much that eugene regressed. he got surpassed by Sanders, Gay and Merriwether to a certain extent.

he has missed rodney the past two years and never got in a groove this year.

it's a shame, he produced early in his career. he'll be with the jets

That's just simply not true. If Wilson was still playing at the level he started at, and THEN was actually surpassed by Sanders, Gay, Merriwether, etc., the Patriots would currently have the greatest secondary ever. The Eugene Wilson Pats fans were giddy about his rookie year is just not there anymore.

I disagree about Hobbs, btw--I think he's going through a similar progression that Samuel did. They burst out of the great with great athleticism, and there is then a bit of a curve as they master technique. I think Hobbs has at least the potential to be a #1 corner in a couple years.

 

[jscout]

If you go to SI.COM, they keep tabs on how many drops and how many targets a receiver had.

Moss - 98 Catches, 159 Targets, 9 Drops, 61.6% catch
Welker -112 Catches, 145 Targets, 4 Drops, 77.2% catch
Gaffney - 36 catches, 50 Targets, 2 drops, 72% catch
Stallworth - 46 Catches, 75 Targets, 5 Drops, 61.3% catch
Watson - 36 Catches, 49 Targets, 4 Drops, 73.5% catch

WELKER, was, by far, the best receiver, catching 77.2% of the passes thrown to him.

If you take another look at those numbers, it shows that Watson could be the worst of the bunch which is why the perception that he drops more passes. Assume total catchable passes equals catches plus drops. Also assume that the rest of the targets were uncatchable so discount those for the sake of discussion.

Welker - 112 Catches, 4 Drops, 116 Catchable Targets, 96.6% catch
Gaffney - 36 Catches, 2 Drops, 38 Catchable Targets, 94.7% catch
Moss - 98 Catches, 9 Drops, 107 Catchable Targets, 91.6% catch
Stallworth - 46 Catches, 5 Drops, 51 Catchable Targets, 90.2% catch
Watson - 36 Catches, 4 Drops, 40 Catchable Targets, 90.0% catch