Is Cassel's future determined already?

[tombonneau]

Just fixing the #s, but your points are spot-on. And let's not forget that he played at least three of those games (PIT, OAK, ARI, + the excluded BUF) in rather unfriendly conditions.

Right, the listing I was looking at it had Buffalo as Game 9 (which it was) even though it was Week 10. Thanks for catching.

But you're right, I forgot to mention that a good number of those games were in crappy conditions and the numbers still came. It really is pretty remarkable when you consider it.

 

[The_Riddler]

Rumblings out of the Minneapolis press have the Vikings sniffing Matty Cassel, I always felt that this is where he is going to end up, this is the one team that is truly a QB away from making a major SB run.

http://www.twincities.com/sports/ci_11426121?nclick_check=1

Charley Walters of the Pioneer Press speculates that it's looking "more likely than ever" that the Vikings will go after Patriots QB Matt Cassel this offseason.

Cassel could potentially cost the Vikings $30MM in guarantees, as well as two first-round draft picks. He seemingly came out of nowhere this season, stepping in for an injured Tom Brady and leading the Patriots to eleven wins. He threw for 63.4%/3693/7.2/21/11 and improved dramatically as the season wore on and he became more comfortable in the offense.The thinking in Minnesota is that they're only a solid QB away from having a great team, and that the 26 year-old Cassel could provide the missing piece for a championship run.

 

[stinkypete]

I think Cassel is going to be signed to a long term deal with the understanding that he will be traded if/when Brady is ready. I see a scenario where Cassel agrees to a deal that is comparable to Tony Romo's but is backloaded in years 2-5. Basically, Cassel works on the cheap in 2009, maybe the $4-$5 million range, salaries escilate to top starter's level in 2010, with the understanding that he is elsewhere by then.

 

[JSn]

I think Cassel is going to be signed to a long term deal with the understanding that he will be traded if/when Brady is ready. I see a scenario where Cassel agrees to a deal that is comparable to Tony Romo's but is backloaded in years 2-5. Basically, Cassel works on the cheap in 2009, maybe the $4-$5 million range, salaries escilate to top starter's level in 2010, with the understanding that he is elsewhere by then.

Along those lines, couldn't he sign a deal with significant escalators if he goes through training camp with the Pats and again if he starts game one?

 

[Return of the Nizz]

I think Cassel is going to be signed to a long term deal with the understanding that he will be traded if/when Brady is ready. I see a scenario where Cassel agrees to a deal that is comparable to Tony Romo's but is backloaded in years 2-5. Basically, Cassel works on the cheap in 2009, maybe the $4-$5 million range, salaries escilate to top starter's level in 2010, with the understanding that he is elsewhere by then.

The problem with this is that if the Pats give him a signing bonus and then trade him, they take a huge cap hit. A football players contract is only as good as the guarantees and there is no reason for Cassel to take a backloaded deal with a small bonus.

This might be his only chance to set himself up for life and he should damn well take it. We'retalking about a kid coming off of a7th rounders contract. It's not like he's already madea ton of money.

 

[slash83]

Rumblings out of the Minneapolis press have the Vikings sniffing Matty Cassel, I always felt that this is where he is going to end up, this is the one team that is truly a QB away from making a major SB run.

http://www.twincities.com/sports/ci_11426121?nclick_check=1

Charley Walters of the Pioneer Press speculates that it's looking "more likely than ever" that the Vikings will go after Patriots QB Matt Cassel this offseason.

Cassel could potentially cost the Vikings $30MM in guarantees, as well as two first-round draft picks. He seemingly came out of nowhere this season, stepping in for an injured Tom Brady and leading the Patriots to eleven wins. He threw for 63.4%/3693/7.2/21/11 and improved dramatically as the season wore on and he became more comfortable in the offense.The thinking in Minnesota is that they're only a solid QB away from having a great team, and that the 26 year-old Cassel could provide the missing piece for a championship run.

Minnesota would be an ideal place for Cassel, deep receiving threat in Berrian, and of coure Adrian Peterson the best hb in the NFL, also has chester taylor whos also good. Plus it gets Cassel out of the AFC, not that im scared to face him but you know....

 

[Patjew]

Yes, the claim that we have a great OL was a bit of a stretch considering the Patriots gave up 47 or 48 sacks this year.

Not to mention that you can easily say that the D and WR drops led to at least 2 of the losses this year.

Lots of holes in Mangold's post.

 

[patchick]

Basically, Cassel works on the cheap in 2009, maybe the $4-$5 million range, salaries escilate to top starter's level in 2010, with the understanding that he is elsewhere by then.

Unfortunately, I believe that's a violation of the byzantine cap rules surrounding 2010.

 

[tedylb]

Fascinating discussion. People with a lot more knowledge and wisdom than I have are postulating many scenarios. What will develop remains to be seen, and it's great that the Pats have several options. I'm hoping the Pats sign him long-term, trading him only if some desperate team makes an offer too ridiculous to refuse. Here's why:

Remember in preseason, many here wanted him cut. I don't think any of us foresaw his solid performance in 2008. Not a bad return for a seventh rounder who hadn't played in 8 years. And I think some here still don't see a lot of upside in his future. I do. He's intelligent, athletic, a competitor-and a team player who quietly held the clipboard and says he's willing to do it again. If Tom isn't ready to start the season, or God forbid, if he goes down again, the Pats have a proven replacement. Also Brady may hang up his cleats in a couple of years. In the meantime, Cassel is a sound insurance policy, who, I believe, will only improve.

 

[BradyManny]

Whats the argument that Cassel has less upside? The kid put up a 63% 21/11 3700 line his first year as a starter. Very similar to Brady's first year as a starter, except while Cassel had better receivers, Brady had a much better defense. Cassel's first year was better than Romo's with similar receivers.

The chance of Sanchez EVER having a season like that is remote.

Again, it was similar to Brady's first year as a starter in a wildly different offense. The comparison from Cassel 08 shouldn't be to Brady 01. It should be Brady 01: Bledsoe 00 and Cassel 08: Brady 07. We can only go based on the systems they were in. From there, I come to the conclusions about Cassel that I do. I think he's proven he is a good quarterback, I just don't think he's ever going to be an elite one.

The inability of board members on this forum to realize its possible not to swing to either end of the spectrum on a given topic is frustrating. I don't think Cassel is as an All Pro and probably never will be. That doesn't mean I'm bashing him. It means he's a good QB, and that's still a commodity. More often than not, the answer to a question/debate is somewhere in the middle, which is the case with Cassel.

The good news for us is that he's going to earn draft picks for us like an elite QB, and the good news for him, he's going to earn a contract bordering on that status. And the good news for whatever team that trades for him is that he's going to be much better than whoever they had throwing the ball before him. Everybody wins.

 

[ctpatsfan77]

Again, it was similar to Brady's first year as a starter in a wildly different offense. The comparison from Cassel 08 shouldn't be to Brady 01. It should be Brady 01: Bledsoe 00 and Cassel 08: Brady 07. We can only go based on the systems they were in. From there, I come to the conclusions about Cassel that I do. I think he's proven he is a good quarterback, I just don't think he's ever going to be an elite one.

This isn't meant facetiously, but what do you mean by "elite QB"?

Also, your choice of comparison depends largely on what you're trying to do. If you're trying to decide, say, whether or not to keep Cassel, 2007 Brady-2008 Cassel is a reasonable comparison. If you're trying to make projections about what Cassel will do 3-5 years down the road, it's useless. Remember that Brady had six full years of reading NFL defenses before having the season he did in 2007; Cassel didn't even have six games when he started, and the Patriots became very conservative the first few weeks.

 

[Scouse Patriot]

Just watching Jamie Dukes grilling Cassel on total access, Jamie Dukes is really one of the most annoying people on this earth.

 

[BradyManny]

This isn't meant facetiously, but what do you mean by "elite QB"?

Also, your choice of comparison depends largely on what you're trying to do. If you're trying to decide, say, whether or not to keep Cassel, 2007 Brady-2008 Cassel is a reasonable comparison. If you're trying to make projections about what Cassel will do 3-5 years down the road, it's useless. Remember that Brady had six full years of reading NFL defenses before having the season he did in 2007; Cassel didn't even have six games when he started, and the Patriots became very conservative the first few weeks.

Elite = Brady, Manning. Or the next level, Brees, Palmer (if his team didn't suck), Rivers.

Cassel had 3 years in the system versus Brady's 1 when he took over. There's going to be variables either way that change it. It didn't take Brady 6 years to become an elite QB - he was a HOFer long before 2007, and if he had Moss earlier in his career, his numbers would've been insane every year.

And its besides the point. I'm not trying to compare them. Everyone else is, and thats where they are making a mistake. If you just view Cassel by himself, ignore the numbers, ignore the stats, the comparisons, etc., and just look at him as a QB and consider his strengths and weaknesses, the picture is much clearer:

He has strong decision making and strong accuracy, and he is a very good running QB. His pocket presence is moderate, but getting better, he still tucks it too quickly. He does not have a very strong arm and has trouble making throws down field. He played well against weak competition and poorly against tough defenses. He has a very high mental strength and his intangibles (work ethic, teamfirst mentality) are off the chart. Factor all those in, I say he's a good QB and leave it at that. He's worth tagging and trading for a pretty fair price.

 

[TruthSeeker]

Look, I like Cassel, I think he's an excellent QB, but I also know that if he didn't have Moss and ESPECIALLY Wes Welker in this offense, not to mention the tudorship of a great OC in McDaniels (Never underestimate that), then he clearly would not have had the kind of success he had this season. If you put Cassel in that KC offense, without a McDaniels and a Moss and a Welker, you will get different results my friend, I don't see how you could say you wouldn't.

This is not to bash Cassel at all. It's just that I think Pioli would rather pay much less money to a Mark Sanchez who he could develop in a 2-3 years as the rest of the team develops and leave enough FA cash to help build the team while Sanchez grows. KC is 3 years away at this point. Cassel is a guy who can help a team "right now", those teams being Minn, SF and Tampa. Pioli doesn't need this fixed right now like 4-eyes over in Minnesota does or else he's out. After the top 2 QB's go quickly in this draft, which they will, if Childress doesn't pick up the phone for Cassel either then or before then, because he's banking on TJackson, then he can kiss his tail good-bye.

I think the flaw in your logic is you ignore that Cassel continues to improve. Who knows how good he can get? You're assuming Sanchez has a much higher ceiling - but why is that true? It's not even clear Sanchez will ever accomplish what Cassel has already done.

What I see is a QB with some proven success in the NFL who has the tools to keep improving. The real key is how well he makes decisions under pressure. We now know that he does that a lot better than we would have thought at the beginning of the season. He continues to grow by leaps and bounds. How can you realistically say that he's reached or almost reached his potential at this point?

 

[Synovia]

Minnesota would be an ideal place for Cassel, deep receiving threat in Berrian, and of coure Adrian Peterson the best hb in the NFL, also has chester taylor whos also good. Plus it gets Cassel out of the AFC, not that im scared to face him but you know....

Best runner in the NFL. Hes not nearly the best HB in the NFL. He sucks at pass blocking, receiving, blitz pickup, and a whole lot of other things.

 

[Synovia]

Elite = Brady, Manning. Or the next level, Brees, Palmer (if his team didn't suck), Rivers.

Cassel had 3 years in the system versus Brady's 1 when he took over. There's going to be variables either way that change it. It didn't take Brady 6 years to become an elite QB - he was a HOFer long before 2007,

Terry Bradshaw is a HOF'er despite never even being in the top 5 in the league. Brady's career numbers are 3700 yds, 62% comp, 24 TD, 14INts a year. Before 2007, a TON of people thought of Brady as a product of the system. He was a HOF'er at that point because the Patriots had won 3 superbowls in 4 years, not because of his play.

It DID take Brady 6 years to become elite. Unless you think 24/14 is elite. Which, in that case, there were 11 Elite QBs this year, and Matt Cassel was one of them.


There is the possibility, that 2007 was a Career Year for Brady.

 

[billdog3484]

hes staying. when you think about it, i think this is what has to be done by the franchise. they cannot let him go

 

[JSn]

Just an update, I heard on WEEI (I think) that the Chiefs want to interview the Cards OC after the SB, but do not plan to fire Herm until they have that meeting.

I thought it was odd that it would be so public that Herm is just there until someone better comes along, but there it is.

 

[StyLeZ X]

hes staying. when you think about it, i think this is what has to be done by the franchise. they cannot let him go

we cant afford it. The offseason is VERY important, if you're not getting better someone else is and with an aging team we cant have both.

 

[CanadianPat'sFan]

Just watching Jamie Dukes grilling Cassel on total access, Jamie Dukes is really one of the most annoying people on this earth.

I second that one!!! Remember "Put up or Dukes" with Jamie doing commentary through with annoying comments. He is opinionated but that is why he is there. I really think sometime Rod Woodson is going to slap the taste out of his mouth.