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I'm Loving Pope Francis


Perhaps, but at least I understand what the term religion or faith means...

Pope Francis gave hope to a lot of Catholics last week with his message of love over doctrine... and that is a good thing and what Francis meant.


You know what religion or faith means. Suuuuure you do. :rolleyes:

He didn't give a message of "love over doctrine". Are you seriously this obtuse?

He's the Pope of the RCC....he's been a Bishop and a Cardinal, but yes, he said let's forget about doctrine because all we need is love. :rolleyes:
 
Face it, RI, he's a hippie like Jesus.

Cope.
 
You know what religion or faith means. Suuuuure you do.

He didn't give a message of "love over doctrine". Are you seriously this obtuse?

He's the Pope of the RCC....he's been a Bishop and a Cardinal, but yes, he said let's forget about doctrine because all we need is love.

Your founder never focused on doctrine, but the spirit of man/woman and how they should lead their lives.. there are very few rules in the new testament.

"Alice the eyeroller"... keep hugging that blue book. It used to be blue, but now it has expanded to 4 volumes of rules..

Most Catholic Scholars have interpreted what this Pope is saying is that there is a need to stop focusing on doctrine and rules, and focus more on the spirit of the church.. then of course there are the hard liners...

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More from Francis...

"It is the consequence of a global choice, an economic system which leads to this tragedy; an economic system which has at its centre an idol called money."

The 76-year-old said that God had wanted men and women to be at the heart of the world. "But now, in this ethics-less system, there is an idol at the centre and the world has become the idolater of this 'money-god'," he added.
 
Your founder never focused on doctrine, but the spirit of man/woman and how they should lead their lives.. there are very few rules in the new testament.

"Alice the eyeroller"... keep hugging that blue book. It used to be blue, but now it has expanded to 4 volumes of rules..

Most Catholic Scholars have interpreted what this Pope is saying is that there is a need to stop focusing on doctrine and rules, and focus more on the spirit of the church.. then of course there are the hard liners...

551467_w185.png


More from Francis...



The "founder" of my faith most certainly focused on doctrine. In fact, he gave us "doctrine". Doctrine is a belief....Jesus gave us plenty of doctrine along with the Apostles whom he gave the Power to "bind and loosen".

Most Catholic scholars......LOL. You wouldn't know a Catholic scholar if he/she rolled over you. Any Catholic "scholar" worth his/her weight in salt would understand what you don't understand....that God himself has given us these commandments. That doctrine and dogma are necessary and not only are they necessary but that they are a gift given to the faithful.

I would bet that you haven't read the current Catechism of the Catholic church. The fact that you reference the Baltimore Catechism is evidence enough that you haven't read it.
If you did read it, you would know the purpose of doctrine and it's relationship to love.


"The Catechism emphasizes the exposition of doctrine. It seeks to help deepen understanding of faith. In this way it is oriented towards the maturing of that faith, its putting down roots in personal life, and its shining forth in personal conduct. The whole concern of doctrine and its teaching must be directed to the love that never ends. Whether something is proposed for belief, for hope or for action, the love of our Lord must always be made accessible, so that anyone can see that all the works of perfect Christian virtue spring from love and have no other objective than to arrive at love."


Catechism of the Catholic Church - IntraText
 
The times they are a changin'...... and many will get their depends in a bunch.

“The world has become an idolator of this god called money. [...] It is the consequence of a world choice, of an economic system that has at its centre an idol which is called money. [...] To defend this economic culture, a throwaway culture has been installed. We throw away grandparents, and we throw away young people. We have to say no to this throwaway culture. We want a just system that helps everyone.”

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pope-francis-income-equality.jpg
 
The times they are a changin'...... and many will get their depends in a bunch.



865-Saq5c.AuSt.91.jpeg


pope-francis-income-equality.jpg


I'm sure you would know all too well what Depends feel like when they're all in a bunch.

What you don't know, obviously, is the Catholic faith.

Nothing the Pope said was "new" and if you understood Catholicism, you'd know that.


2444 "The Church's love for the poor . . . is a part of her constant tradition." This love is inspired by the Gospel of the Beatitudes, of the poverty of Jesus, and of his concern for the poor.235 Love for the poor is even one of the motives for the duty of working so as to "be able to give to those in need."236 It extends not only to material poverty but also to the many forms of cultural and religious poverty.237

2445 Love for the poor is incompatible with immoderate love of riches or their selfish use:

Come now, you rich, weep and howl for the miseries that are coming upon you. Your riches have rotted and your garments are moth-eaten. Your gold and silver have rusted, and their rust will be evidence against you and will eat your flesh like fire. You have laid up treasure for the last days. Behold, the wages of the laborers who mowed your fields, which you kept back by fraud, cry out; and the cries of the harvesters have reached the ears of the Lord of hosts. You have lived on the earth in luxury and in pleasure; you have fattened your hearts in a day of slaughter. You have condemned, you have killed the righteous man; he does not resist you.238"


Catechism of the Catholic Church - PART 3 SECTION 2 CHAPTER 2 ARTICLE 7
 
I'm sure you would know all too well what Depends feel like when they're all in a bunch.

What you don't know, obviously, is the Catholic faith.

Nothing the Pope said was "new" and if you understood Catholicism, you'd know that.


2444 "The Church's love for the poor . . . is a part of her constant tradition." This love is inspired by the Gospel of the Beatitudes, of the poverty of Jesus, and of his concern for the poor.235 Love for the poor is even one of the motives for the duty of working so as to "be able to give to those in need."236 It extends not only to material poverty but also to the many forms of cultural and religious poverty.237

2445 Love for the poor is incompatible with immoderate love of riches or their selfish use:

Come now, you rich, weep and howl for the miseries that are coming upon you. Your riches have rotted and your garments are moth-eaten. Your gold and silver have rusted, and their rust will be evidence against you and will eat your flesh like fire. You have laid up treasure for the last days. Behold, the wages of the laborers who mowed your fields, which you kept back by fraud, cry out; and the cries of the harvesters have reached the ears of the Lord of hosts. You have lived on the earth in luxury and in pleasure; you have fattened your hearts in a day of slaughter. You have condemned, you have killed the righteous man; he does not resist you.238"


Catechism of the Catholic Church - PART 3 SECTION 2 CHAPTER 2 ARTICLE 7

You are so caught up in the comfort of doctrine, you cannot even give a homeless person a dime without a background check...

You are what Francis is railing against.. people more involved with Doctrine than the spirit...
 
You are so caught up in the comfort of doctrine, you cannot even give a homeless person a dime without a background check...

You are what Francis is railing against.. people more involved with Doctrine than the spirit...



You have no idea what he's talking about because you don't understand the Catholic faith.

But you're not interested in the truth....you're much more interested in promoting your Progressive faith, truth be damned.
 
While it is not wholly incompatible with the remainder of the teachings of the Church, the focus on the charitable elements rather than condemnatory elements is striking.

I think Benedict would have liked your fervor for dogma, RI. I don't think Francis would have time for it. He's interested in the heart of Catholicism, and he's interested in defining that heart as an open, warm, and accepting one.

The choice of Francis was brilliant, IMO. The proof is that we're talking with you about whether he's "anything new" rather than talking about the child abuse scandals the Church is still juggling. He's single-handedly shown that the Church still has something to offer, and good for him.

In the end, the Catholic Church wouldn't be particularly universal if it were only a message for Catholic scholars. It is not. But the message, as opposed to the dogma, is frightening to the dogmatists.

As far as Francis seems concerned, he and I can discuss the matter in the hereafter, he with his love of Christ, me with my love of truth. Maybe there'll be a nice gay couple chiming in :)

PFnV
 
While it is not wholly incompatible with the remainder of the teachings of the Church, the focus on the charitable elements rather than condemnatory elements is striking.

I think Benedict would have liked your fervor for dogma, RI. I don't think Francis would have time for it. He's interested in the heart of Catholicism, and he's interested in defining that heart as an open, warm, and accepting one.

The choice of Francis was brilliant, IMO. The proof is that we're talking with you about whether he's "anything new" rather than talking about the child abuse scandals the Church is still juggling. He's single-handedly shown that the Church still has something to offer, and good for him.

In the end, the Catholic Church wouldn't be particularly universal if it were only a message for Catholic scholars. It is not. But the message, as opposed to the dogma, is frightening to the dogmatists.

As far as Francis seems concerned, he and I can discuss the matter in the hereafter, he with his love of Christ, me with my love of truth. Maybe there'll be a nice gay couple chiming in :)

PFnV



The love of doctrine is the heart of Catholicism: You must love the Lord your God with all your mind, heart, and soul....and your neighbor as yourself.

How can we love God if we disobey the faith that he gives us? To love God is to be obedient to God:


"If you love me, obey my commandments." - Jesus: John 14:15


That obedience that God requires from us is rooted in the Old Testament and is witnessed to us by Jesus in his obedience to the Father.

Doctrine is not an anchor but rather a roadmap to guide us in that path of obedience.

The Catholic church is universal because she is the one bride of christ. To those who are chosen, they know that she contains the fullness of truth........ nothing of which frightens, but all of which enlightens. A beauty that has no equal.....a beauty which the world will consider foolish and folly but which the believer knows to be the way to everlasting life.

Francis is living that beauty in his life....all of it. His living witness of obedience to Catholic doctrine is a testament to his love of God and his love of neighbor. It is not a witness to the rejection of Catholic doctrine.
 
The love of doctrine is the heart of Catholicism: You must love the Lord your God with all your mind, heart, and soul....and your neighbor as yourself.

Then you have no real reason for Christianity to exist, do you? After all, you've just quoted the story about Hillel when asked to explain Judaism on one foot - First the ve'ahavta, which you seem to think was a Christian invention, followed by "love they neighbor as thyself." At least I think you meant to put the word "love" in there, by context. You're gone a little verbless in the above.

Were you Jewish, you could even quote the last line of the story about Hillel - "Now, go and study." That might be more in tune with your love of doctrine/dogma, but unfortunately, when Jews say "go and study," they mean learn the text but also learn to argue it, not to parrot it.

How can we love God if we disobey the faith that he gives us? To love God is to be obedient to God:

"If you love me, obey my commandments." - Jesus: John 14:15

Do you work on Saturdays?
Do you eat bacon, pork, or shrimp?
Do you wear garments woven of more than one fabric?
Do you worship only God alone, or a trinity

Don't be silly and say you keep God's commandments. You can say you keep to one or another set of made-up rules, but these aren't the commandments, according to the scripture.

I make no such claim, as I've thought for myself through the reasoning behind the mitzvoth. You haven't. You just parrot words about "commandments" if they're convenient to an argument on the bulletin board.

Do yourself a favor - just convert to Judaism, then say "I'm not doing any of it." So far you've invented reform Judaism, in your attempt to lecture on the importance of Catholic doctrine.

That obedience that God requires from us is rooted in the Old Testament and is witnessed to us by Jesus in his obedience to the Father.

If you mean the Hebrew Bible, or the Tanakh, or if you like the Torah, of course it is. But your religion does not practice the commandments.

Doctrine is not an anchor but rather a roadmap to guide us in that path of obedience.

Obedience to what? You have no respect for the mizvoth. Stick with calling Catholicism and other sects of Christianity what they are -- a religion unto itself that substitutes one man's sacrifice for either the sacrificial cult of the Temple, the keeping of the Commandments, or in the modern context, the adherence to the moral heart of Judaism. For that matter, were you actually aware of the monotheistic requirement in the Hebrew bible, the most basic and first commandment, you'd know you couldn't invent a trinity and claim roots in the Torah.

The Catholic church is universal because she is the one bride of christ.

I'm not in it. Fail.

To those who are chosen, they know that she contains the fullness of truth........

In your "Old Testament" (a derogatory appellation you would never use, had you not long ago decided that God's commandments did not apply,) God makes his "chosen people" Israel -- that people we now call the Jews. Not Christians. Not Muslims. God makes a covenant with us: We will be his people, and He will be our God.

I don't say this to declare a special place; rather, I bring it up because you're claiming to use the Jewish formula, and to simply replace the "chosen people" with whichever "people" you belong with.

If you're going to have an exclusionary and somewhat offensive doctrine, couldn't you at least make up your own? Even if you want to do a xerox copy of Judaism, scratch out "Jews" and write in "Catholics" in crayon, couldn't you have the common courtesy not to say it's "rooted in" the books you're essentially abrogating?

nothing of which frightens, but all of which enlightens. A beauty that has no equal.....a beauty which the world will consider foolish and folly but which the believer knows to be the way to everlasting life.

Okay now you're on safe ground, this sort of rhapsodic claim about everlasting life. No actual content, but there's no original content up to this point, so no big loss there. At least you're on the familiar turf of promising immortality only to those who agree with you. Of course, "nothing of which frightens" doesn't seem an apt description of the usual Christian description of Hell. But why split hairs.

Francis is living that beauty in his life....all of it. His living witness of obedience to Catholic doctrine is a testament to his love of God and his love of neighbor. It is not a witness to the rejection of Catholic doctrine.

Francis is a good pope but has shown no special love of doctrine. Your long ramble claiming that because he's a good man, he must be some sort of doctrine-spouting ideologue is silly.

He's doing what Jesus said to do, and for those actions, I have no desire to pick on him. After all, as we keep establishing (over and over again, it seems,) Jesus' own sayings seem to have been those of a radicalized Jewish teacher of his time. Jesus had no clue that somebody was going to write books we call Mark, Matthew, Luke, and John, nor any of the rest of it. Jesus was likely much less concerned with what people would later make of his death, than with what he could teach.

I am sure Francis, like you, believe that Jesus takes the place of the temple sacrifices. Jesus did not believe that he took the place of the mitzvoth; that was Paul's idea, decades later, when he fought against the idea that you must first be a Jew to be a Christian.

In that Francis isn't concerned with thousands of years of distortions, but with what Jesus taught, he comes much closer than did (for example) Benedict, to this man who sought out and taught core Jewish concepts a couple of thousand years ago.

The fact that Catholicism has abandoned the mitzvoth is not troubling to me; in large part, I have done the same. But I don't run around claiming to be a keeper of the doctrine; you, on the other hand, are making the specious claim that by reversing the requirements of the mitzvoth, you are keeping them.

We had another false messiah named Shabbatai Zevi in the 17th century who claimed to do the same. The difference between him and Jesus is that Jesus didn't do so; it was his followers who did the heavy lifting on that lie. Jesus was, of course, a false messiah too, but at least he played it straight, rather than as a sort of farce.

I'm not a Sabbatean, and for good reason -- truth. I don't mind leaving behind commandments; but I'm not dishonest enough to claim that by breaking the commandments I'm really the one who's keeping them.

To his credit, neither is Francis. He just does what he believes it's right to do, using the teachings of Jesus -- and to date, his most progressive ones -- as his guide.

Best. Pope. Evah.

PFnV
 
Then you have no real reason for Christianity to exist, do you? After all, you've just quoted the story about Hillel when asked to explain Judaism on one foot - First the ve'ahavta, which you seem to think was a Christian invention, followed by "love they neighbor as thyself." At least I think you meant to put the word "love" in there, by context. You're gone a little verbless in the above.

Were you Jewish, you could even quote the last line of the story about Hillel - "Now, go and study." That might be more in tune with your love of doctrine/dogma, but unfortunately, when Jews say "go and study," they mean learn the text but also learn to argue it, not to parrot it.



Do you work on Saturdays?
Do you eat bacon, pork, or shrimp?
Do you wear garments woven of more than one fabric?
Do you worship only God alone, or a trinity

Don't be silly and say you keep God's commandments. You can say you keep to one or another set of made-up rules, but these aren't the commandments, according to the scripture.

I make no such claim, as I've thought for myself through the reasoning behind the mitzvoth. You haven't. You just parrot words about "commandments" if they're convenient to an argument on the bulletin board.

Do yourself a favor - just convert to Judaism, then say "I'm not doing any of it." So far you've invented reform Judaism, in your attempt to lecture on the importance of Catholic doctrine.



If you mean the Hebrew Bible, or the Tanakh, or if you like the Torah, of course it is. But your religion does not practice the commandments.



Obedience to what? You have no respect for the mizvoth. Stick with calling Catholicism and other sects of Christianity what they are -- a religion unto itself that substitutes one man's sacrifice for either the sacrificial cult of the Temple, the keeping of the Commandments, or in the modern context, the adherence to the moral heart of Judaism. For that matter, were you actually aware of the monotheistic requirement in the Hebrew bible, the most basic and first commandment, you'd know you couldn't invent a trinity and claim roots in the Torah.



I'm not in it. Fail.



In your "Old Testament" (a derogatory appellation you would never use, had you not long ago decided that God's commandments did not apply,) God makes his "chosen people" Israel -- that people we now call the Jews. Not Christians. Not Muslims. God makes a covenant with us: We will be his people, and He will be our God.

I don't say this to declare a special place; rather, I bring it up because you're claiming to use the Jewish formula, and to simply replace the "chosen people" with whichever "people" you belong with.

If you're going to have an exclusionary and somewhat offensive doctrine, couldn't you at least make up your own? Even if you want to do a xerox copy of Judaism, scratch out "Jews" and write in "Catholics" in crayon, couldn't you have the common courtesy not to say it's "rooted in" the books you're essentially abrogating?



Okay now you're on safe ground, this sort of rhapsodic claim about everlasting life. No actual content, but there's no original content up to this point, so no big loss there. At least you're on the familiar turf of promising immortality only to those who agree with you. Of course, "nothing of which frightens" doesn't seem an apt description of the usual Christian description of Hell. But why split hairs.



Francis is a good pope but has shown no special love of doctrine. Your long ramble claiming that because he's a good man, he must be some sort of doctrine-spouting ideologue is silly.

He's doing what Jesus said to do, and for those actions, I have no desire to pick on him. After all, as we keep establishing (over and over again, it seems,) Jesus' own sayings seem to have been those of a radicalized Jewish teacher of his time. Jesus had no clue that somebody was going to write books we call Mark, Matthew, Luke, and John, nor any of the rest of it. Jesus was likely much less concerned with what people would later make of his death, than with what he could teach.

I am sure Francis, like you, believe that Jesus takes the place of the temple sacrifices. Jesus did not believe that he took the place of the mitzvoth; that was Paul's idea, decades later, when he fought against the idea that you must first be a Jew to be a Christian.

In that Francis isn't concerned with thousands of years of distortions, but with what Jesus taught, he comes much closer than did (for example) Benedict, to this man who sought out and taught core Jewish concepts a couple of thousand years ago.

The fact that Catholicism has abandoned the mitzvoth is not troubling to me; in large part, I have done the same. But I don't run around claiming to be a keeper of the doctrine; you, on the other hand, are making the specious claim that by reversing the requirements of the mitzvoth, you are keeping them.

We had another false messiah named Shabbatai Zevi in the 17th century who claimed to do the same. The difference between him and Jesus is that Jesus didn't do so; it was his followers who did the heavy lifting on that lie. Jesus was, of course, a false messiah too, but at least he played it straight, rather than as a sort of farce.

I'm not a Sabbatean, and for good reason -- truth. I don't mind leaving behind commandments; but I'm not dishonest enough to claim that by breaking the commandments I'm really the one who's keeping them.

To his credit, neither is Francis. He just does what he believes it's right to do, using the teachings of Jesus -- and to date, his most progressive ones -- as his guide.

Best. Pope. Evah.

PFnV



"The law" for Catholics is natural law including the 10 Commandments as taught by the Magisterium:


2036 The authority of the Magisterium extends also to the specific precepts of the natural law, because their observance, demanded by the Creator, is necessary for salvation. In recalling the prescriptions of the natural law, the Magisterium of the Church exercises an essential part of its prophetic office of proclaiming to men what they truly are and reminding them of what they should be before God.78

2037 The law of God entrusted to the Church is taught to the faithful as the way of life and truth. The faithful therefore have the right to be instructed in the divine saving precepts that purify judgment and, with grace, heal wounded human reason.79 They have the duty of observing the constitutions and decrees conveyed by the legitimate authority of the Church. Even if they concern disciplinary matters, these determinations call for docility in charity.

2068 The Council of Trent teaches that the Ten Commandments are obligatory for Christians and that the justified man is still bound to keep them;28 the Second Vatican Council confirms: "The bishops, successors of the apostles, receive from the Lord . . . the mission of teaching all peoples, and of preaching the Gospel to every creature, so that all men may attain salvation through faith, Baptism and the observance of the Commandments."29

2070 The Ten Commandments belong to God's revelation. At the same time they teach us the true humanity of man. They bring to light the essential duties, and therefore, indirectly, the fundamental rights inherent in the nature of the human person. The Decalogue contains a privileged expression of the natural law:


Catechism of the Catholic Church - The Ten Commandments


Unlike you, Francis fully comprehends the Catholic understanding of "law" as seen through the Magisterium. He has consistently referenced Catholic doctrine.

The funny thing is...and I'm sure you didn't know this because your beloved Progresssive Press didn't report on it because it didn't fit their agenda.....the Pope spoke recently to a whole bunch of "people concerned with doctrine" and here's what he had to say about people who teach the Catechism (catechists) as well as the catechism itself:


"So, as I look out at you, I think: Who are catechists? They are people who keep the memory of God alive; they keep it alive in themselves and they are able to revive it in others. This is something beautiful: to remember God, like the Virgin Mary, who sees God’s wondrous works in her life but doesn’t think about honour, prestige or wealth; she doesn’t become self-absorbed.

The catechist, then, is a Christian who is mindful of God, who is guided by the memory of God in his or her entire life and who is able to awaken that memory in the hearts of others. This is not easy! It engages our entire existence! What is the Catechism itself, if not the memory of God, the memory of his works in history and his drawing near to us in Christ present in his word, in the sacraments, in his Church, in his love? Dear catechists, I ask you: Are we in fact the memory of God? Are we really like sentinels who awaken in others the memory of God which warms the heart?"


Holy Mass on the occasion of the Day for Catechists concluding their pilgrimage from different world countries, 29 September 2013


BTW, if not to top it off....this was a sermon he gave during a Mass just for catechists.


I guess you can insist that the Pope is not concerned with doctrine but obviously both his actions and his words say otherwise and if you actually understood Catholicism, you would understand what the Pope and I understand....that the heart of the church is it's deposit of faith and the grace given to us to live that faith.
 
Yeah? well, for Jews, every Jew forever was mystically present at Sinai to receive the Commandments.

I didn't see nobody there named "Magisterium" and I didn't see you.

Getcher own.
 
Telling me that 10 of the 613 commandments are binding on Catholics is an unimpressive explanation of how Catholicism is how you "really" keep the commandments. It's not. It's its own religion, that's fine. It might be good and well. It's just not a religion that keeps the Commandments, despite your parroting of Catholic doctrine to the effect that about 1/60th are "binding" on Catholics.

Or so it appears... you're going to have to work on the First Commandment:

I am the Lord God who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of slavery; Thou shalt have no other Gods before me.

He doesn't say "We are the Lords Thy Three Gods, and sometimes we're, like, all one, and sometimes we talk to each other, but trust me, there's really only one of us even though anybody who can count says there's three."

Don't bother explaining; your own dogma says it's a "mystery." See, I'm not a Catholic, and can count, so I just call bullcrap.
 
Yeah? well, for Jews, every Jew forever was mystically present at Sinai to receive the Commandments.

I didn't see nobody there named "Magisterium" and I didn't see you.

Getcher own.


No, but Jesus was present at Sinai and he gave us the Magisterium and I accept the Magisterium just like my Pope accepts the Magisterium.

BTW, what did you think about the Pope's remarks about the catechism and all those "doctrine lovers"?

Did you enjoy them as much as I did? :D
 
Telling me that 10 of the 613 commandments are binding on Catholics is an unimpressive explanation of how Catholicism is how you "really" keep the commandments. It's not. It's its own religion, that's fine. It might be good and well. It's just not a religion that keeps the Commandments, despite your parroting of Catholic doctrine to the effect that about 1/60th are "binding" on Catholics.

Or so it appears... you're going to have to work on the First Commandment:

I am the Lord God who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of slavery; Thou shalt have no other Gods before me.

He doesn't say "We are the Lords Thy Three Gods, and sometimes we're, like, all one, and sometimes we talk to each other, but trust me, there's really only one of us even though anybody who can count says there's three."
Don't bother explaining; your own dogma says it's a "mystery." See, I'm not a Catholic, and can count, so I just call bullcrap.




Since you don't want me to explain it, I will just quote one of my favorite church fathers instead:




"We do indeed believe that there is only one God, but we believe that under this dispensation, or, as we say, oikonomia, there is also a Son of this one only God, his Word, who proceeded from him and through whom all things were made and without whom nothing was made. . . . We believe he was sent down by the Father, in accord with his own promise, the Holy Spirit, the Paraclete, the sanctifier of the faith of those who believe in the Father and the Son, and in the Holy Spirit. . . . This rule of faith has been present since the beginning of the gospel, before even the earlier heretics (Against Praxeas 2 [A.D. 216]).

And at the same time the mystery of the oikonomia is safeguarded, for the unity is distributed in a Trinity. Placed in order, the three are the Father, Son, and Spirit. They are three, however, not in condition, but in degree; not in being, but in form; not in power, but in kind; of one being, however, and one condition and one power, because he is one God of whom degrees and forms and kinds are taken into account in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit (ibid.).

Keep always in mind the rule of faith which I profess and by which I bear witness that the Father and the Son and the Spirit are inseparable from each other, and then you will understand what is meant by it. Observe now that I say the Father is other [distinct], the Son is other, and the Spirit is other. This statement is wrongly understood by every uneducated or perversely disposed individual, as if it meant diversity and implied by that diversity a separation of Father, Son, and Holy Spirit (ibid., 9).

Thus the connection of the Father in the Son, and of the Son in the Paraclete, produces three coherent persons, who are yet distinct one from another. These three are, one essence, not one person, as it is said, ‘I and my Father are one’ [John 10:30], in respect of unity of being not singularity of number (ibid., 25).



The Blessed Trinity - The Trinity in Patristic Writings - Catholics for Israel



"For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not know him, God was pleased through the foolishness of what was preached to save those who believe.
Jews demand signs and Greeks look for wisdom, but we preach Christ crucified: a stumbling block to Jews and foolishness to Gentiles,
but to those whom God has called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ (is) the power of God and the wisdom of God."

1 Corinthians 1: 21-24


1 Corinthians 1:23 but we preach Christ crucified: a stumbling block to Jews and foolishness to Gentiles,
 
Jesus was from the backwoods. Most likely he spoke only Aramaic, and perhaps could follow the Hebrew which he may have heard in the context of religious spats -- it wasn't the language of the street anymore. He may have spoken a little greek were he a bit more worldly; however, unless you believe he or his father were part of the Roman military or government, it is very unlikely he spoke any Latin -- so I don't know where he'd have heard the word "Magisterium," never mind how he'd have processed it. There was no Magisterium in Jesus' time.

This is why, to follow his example, Francis does not prattle on about the catechism and the magisterium and doctrinal arguments on arcane terminology.

Instead he says the Church should be concerned with helping the poor, healing the sick, that sort of thing.

Now granted, that gives us less to argue about, but it is, after all, what any religion worth its salt should be concerned with.

PFnV
 
PS, regarding Francis chatting up some catechists? I am fine with him keeping that lot happy, don't care. I'm sure he's appeared before all sorts of groups in the last few months. I don't think a pope saying "hi" to these guys is incredibly unusual.

However, it is unusual for a pope to publicly proclaim "who am I to judge" a gay person, and to say people who "believe" and those who don't can meet each other on the common grounds of good works, with the strong implication that he extends the "common ground" heavenward. Just for example.

This pope's been about inclusiveness and helping those less fortunate. He certainly didn't say you can't lock yourself away somewhere and pore over the doctrines of the church. He just shows no signs of giving a **** for that life. He's all about the people.

PFnV
 
Jesus was from the backwoods. Most likely he spoke only Aramaic, and perhaps could follow the Hebrew which he may have heard in the context of religious spats -- it wasn't the language of the street anymore. He may have spoken a little greek were he a bit more worldly; however, unless you believe he or his father were part of the Roman military or government, it is very unlikely he spoke any Latin -- so I don't know where he'd have heard the word "Magisterium," never mind how he'd have processed it. There was no Magisterium in Jesus' time.

This is why, to follow his example, Francis does not prattle on about the catechism and the magisterium and doctrinal arguments on arcane terminology.

Instead he says the Church should be concerned with helping the poor, healing the sick, that sort of thing.

Now granted, that gives us less to argue about, but it is, after all, what any religion worth its salt should be concerned with.

PFnV



Of course he didn't use the word Magisterium....geez. Please tell me that you're trying to be funny (in your own way) rather than trying to make a serious argument. Magisterium is a term coined by the church to "name" the teaching authority given to the Apostles by Jesus.


"So Jesus said to them again, "Peace be with you; as the Father has sent Me, I also send you." 22And when He had said this, He breathed on them and said to them, "Receive the Holy Spirit. 23"If you forgive the sins of any, their sins have been forgiven them; if you retain the sins of any, they have been retained"


John 20:22 And with that he breathed on them and said, "Receive the Holy Spirit.


He also didn't use the word "transubstantiation" but he did talk about bread and wine becoming his body and blood.


"52Then the Jews began to argue with one another, saying, "How can this man give us His flesh to eat?" 53So Jesus said to them, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink His blood, you have no life in yourselves. 54"He who eats My flesh and drinks My blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day.…"


John 6:53 Jesus said to them, "Very truly I tell you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you.


Helping the poor and healing the sick are both taught in the catechism. But nice try and thanks for playing......


"2447 The works of mercy are charitable actions by which we come to the aid of our neighbor in his spiritual and bodily necessities.242 Instructing, advising, consoling, comforting are spiritual works of mercy, as are forgiving and bearing wrongs patiently. The corporal works of mercy consist especially in feeding the hungry, sheltering the homeless, clothing the naked, visiting the sick and imprisoned, and burying the dead.243 Among all these, giving alms to the poor is one of the chief witnesses to fraternal charity: it is also a work of justice pleasing to God:244"


Catechism of the Catholic Church - The seventh commandment


The Pope is saying that the entire catechism is important....not just bits and pieces.
 


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