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I'm Loving Pope Francis


IcyPatriot

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I'm no religious expert but this is the Catholic teaching I remember as a youngster ... a God who is kind and loving and who accepts people in spite of their faults. A God who forgives sin and welcomes all into heaven. The people who have hijacked God's message with hate ... with vitrol are having their message caste aside by a more powerful voice. Perhaps God is angry ... and has decided to make a stand through Pope Francis ... it's about time. Portions of the Old Testament finally being tossed aside and the record is being set straight.

Pope Francis sets out vision for more gay people and women in 'new' church | World news | The Guardian

Pope Francis has set out his desire to find a "new balance" in the Catholic church, calling for greater involvement of women in key decisions and a less condemnatory approach towards gay people, divorcees and women who have had an abortion.
Asked how he would respond to Catholics who are divorced or remarried or gay, he replies: "I used to receive letters from homosexual persons who are 'socially wounded', because they tell me that they feel like the church has always condemned them. But the church does not want to do this."

He goes on: "A person once asked me, in a provocative manner, if I approved of homosexuality. I replied with another question: 'Tell me: when God looks at a gay person, does he endorse the existence of this person with love, or reject and condemn this person?' We must always consider the person … In life, God accompanies persons, and we must accompany them, starting from their situation."
 
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I'm no religious expert but this is the Catholic teaching I remember as a youngster ... a God who is kind and loving and who accepts people in spite of their faults. A God who forgives sin and welcomes all into heaven. The people who have hijacked God's message with hate ... with vitrol are having their message caste aside by a more powerful voice. Perhaps God is angry ... and has decided to make a stand through Pope Francis ... it's about time. Portions of the Old Testament finally being tossed aside and the record is being set straight.

Pope Francis sets out vision for more gay people and women in 'new' church | World news | The Guardian



God doesn't "accept" sin. God hates sin so much so that he sent his only son to die for these sins of ours.

The Progressive press, as usual, is trying to take his words and fit them to their agenda.

The Pope said that church teaching is quite clear when it comes to abortion, gay marriage, and contraception.

"The teaching of the church, for that matter, is clear and I am a son of the church, but it is not necessary to talk about these issues all the time."


A Big Heart Open to God | America Magazine


The Pope is merely saying that we need to reach out to those who are hurting whomever they might be and whatever their situation happens to be.

I love his field hospital analogy.

Read the whole interview.....don't be duped by what the Progressive press uses to further it's agenda.
 
From the actual article, seems very clear to this viewer.... and gives hope to many...

Inclusiveness is certainly better than exclusiveness.....

“We need to proclaim the Gospel on every street corner,” the pope says, “preaching the good news of the kingdom and healing, even with our preaching, every kind of disease and wound. In Buenos Aires I used to receive letters from homosexual persons who are ‘socially wounded’ because they tell me that they feel like the church has always condemned them. But the church does not want to do this. During the return flight from Rio de Janeiro I said that if a homosexual person is of good will and is in search of God, I am no one to judge. By saying this, I said what the catechism says. Religion has the right to express its opinion in the service of the people, but God in creation has set us free: it is not possible to interfere spiritually in the life of a person.

“A person once asked me, in a provocative manner, if I approved of homosexuality. I replied with another question: ‘Tell me: when God looks at a gay person, does he endorse the existence of this person with love, or reject and condemn this person?’ We must always consider the person.
 
From the actual article, seems very clear to this viewer.... and gives hope to many...

Inclusiveness is certainly better than exclusiveness.....


Again, I have no doubt you will see what you want to see with those Progressive colored glasses but all you have to do is look at just a few little words in the the statement you cherry picked to understand where he's coming from on homosexuality:


"By saying this, I said what the catechism says"


A Big Heart Open to God | America Magazine


And this is what the catechism clearly says:


2357 Homosexuality refers to relations between men or between women who experience an exclusive or predominant sexual attraction toward persons of the same sex. It has taken a great variety of forms through the centuries and in different cultures. Its psychological genesis remains largely unexplained. Basing itself on Sacred Scripture, which presents homosexual acts as acts of grave depravity,141 tradition has always declared that "homosexual acts are intrinsically disordered."142 They are contrary to the natural law. They close the sexual act to the gift of life. They do not proceed from a genuine affective and sexual complementarity. Under no circumstances can they be approved.
2358 The number of men and women who have deep-seated homosexual tendencies is not negligible. This inclination, which is objectively disordered, constitutes for most of them a trial. They must be accepted with respect, compassion, and sensitivity. Every sign of unjust discrimination in their regard should be avoided. These persons are called to fulfill God's will in their lives and, if they are Christians, to unite to the sacrifice of the Lord's Cross the difficulties they may encounter from their condition.

2359 Homosexual persons are called to chastity. By the virtues of self-mastery that teach them inner freedom, at times by the support of disinterested friendship, by prayer and sacramental grace, they can and should gradually and resolutely approach Christian perfection.


Catechism of the Catholic Church - The sixth commandment


There is no hope if your hope is that he will change the teaching on homosexuality because he can't change it. It is part of the Universal and Ordinary teaching of the church and therefore, infallible.




Pope Francis’ comments about gays may have signaled a change in tone within the Catholic Church, but they did not reflect a break in church policy, a leading American Catholic cleric said Tuesday.

The church teaches to treat everyone — including gays — with dignity, even if they do not approve of the relationships they have, said Cardinal Timothy Dolan, president of the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops.

“What the pope is saying is, don’t forget there’s another element to God’s teaching, namely that we treat everybody with dignity and respect, that we don’t judge their heart, that we love and respect them,” he told TODAY’s Matt Lauer.

Dolan said the pontiff’s comments didn’t surprise him, but everyone’s reaction did.

This is no way could this be interpreted as a change in church doctrine or the church’s faith and morals. It is a change in tone," he said.

“It’s been a pretty clear teaching of the church based on the words of Jesus that we can’t judge people; we can judge actions,” he said.


But he emphasized that those actions — specifically, sexual relationships between gay people — are still considered immoral in the eyes of the Catholic church.

“Homosexual people deserve love respect and dignity, while homosexual acts are immoral,” Dolan said.


Cardinal Dolan on pope's gay remarks: We can judge actions, not people - TODAY.com
 
If the church is teaching compassion before agenda I'm OK with that even if they stick by saying the actions are immoral. Hopefully other forms of Christianity and other religions follow suit. I'm not going to debate if they'll ever condone it in full in time because it's fruitless as PFRI isn't going to change his mind and neither will those of us who feel they'll have to change in time. For now I'm loving Pope Francis too and that's good enough.
 
Pope Francis’ comments about gays may have signaled a change in tone within the Catholic Church, but they did not reflect a break in church policy, a leading American Catholic cleric said Tuesday.

The church teaches to treat everyone — including gays — with dignity, even if they do not approve of the relationships they have, said Cardinal Timothy Dolan, president of the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops.

“What the pope is saying is, don’t forget there’s another element to God’s teaching, namely that we treat everybody with dignity and respect, that we don’t judge their heart, that we love and respect them,” he told TODAY’s Matt Lauer.

Dolan said the pontiff’s comments didn’t surprise him, but everyone’s reaction did.

This is no way could this be interpreted as a change in church doctrine or the church’s faith and morals. It is a change in tone," he said.

“It’s been a pretty clear teaching of the church based on the words of Jesus that we can’t judge people; we can judge actions,” he said.


But he emphasized that those actions — specifically, sexual relationships between gay people — are still considered immoral in the eyes of the Catholic church.

“Homosexual people deserve love respect and dignity, while homosexual acts are immoral,” Dolan said.


Cardinal Dolan on pope's gay remarks: We can judge actions, not people - TODAY.com

Dear Cardinal Dolan:

Listen to Francis.

“We cannot insist only on issues related to abortion, gay marriage and the use of contraceptive methods. This is not possible. I have not spoken much about these things, and I was reprimanded for that. But when we speak about these issues, we have to talk about them in a context. The teaching of the church, for that matter, is clear and I am a son of the church, but it is not necessary to talk about these issues all the time."

Thank you,

Mrs.P

Dear RI Patriot fan:

“If the Christian is a restorationist, a legalist, if he wants everything clear and safe, then he will find nothing. Tradition and memory of the past must help us to have the courage to open up new areas to God. Those who today always look for disciplinarian solutions, those who long for an exaggerated doctrinal ‘security,’ those who stubbornly try to recover a past that no longer exists*—they have a static and inward-directed view of things."

Please listen to the pope.

Thank you,

Mrs. P.
 
Dear RI Patriot fan:

“If the Christian is a restorationist, a legalist, if he wants everything clear and safe, then he will find nothing. Tradition and memory of the past must help us to have the courage to open up new areas to God. Those who today always look for disciplinarian solutions, those who long for an exaggerated doctrinal ‘security,’ those who stubbornly try to recover a past that no longer exists*—they have a static and inward-directed view of things."


Please listen to the pope.

Thank you,

Mrs. P.

I think most of us who have been around for a while could write his retort pretty close to verbatim. :bricks:
 
Dear Cardinal Dolan:

Listen to Francis.



Thank you,

Mrs.P

Dear RI Patriot fan:



Please listen to the pope.

Thank you,

Mrs. P.



I have "listened" to the Pope and I agree with him. Are you listening to the Pope and agreeing with him also? I doubt you accept what the catechism has to say about homosexuality like the Pope accepts it.
BTW, I fully embrace what the catechism says about homosexuality.
 
I have "listened" to the Pope and I agree with him. Are you listening to the Pope and agreeing with him also? I doubt you accept what the catechism has to say about homosexuality like the Pope accepts it.
BTW, I fully embrace what the catechism says about homosexuality.

I had the tone and content right but it was much shorter than I had guessed.
 
I have "listened" to the Pope and I agree with him. Are you listening to the Pope and agreeing with him also? I doubt you accept what the catechism has to say about homosexuality like the Pope accepts it.
BTW, I fully embrace what the catechism says about homosexuality.

Thank you for answering my letter to Cardinal Dolan.

Perhaps you'd care to address the one I wrote to you?

The one which tells you to stop relying on doctrinal security and tradition and to open your heart and mind to new areas.

I know it'll be hard for you to respond seeing as how you probably shouldn't resort to a long, rambling and badly cut and pasted link from church doctrine and dogma as is your modus operandi - but hey, give it a go.

We'll be gentle.
 
Thank you for answering my letter to Cardinal Dolan.

Perhaps you'd care to address the one I wrote to you?

The one which tells you to stop relying on doctrinal security and tradition and to open your heart and mind to new areas.

I know it'll be hard for you to respond seeing as how you probably shouldn't resort to a long, rambling and badly cut and pasted link from church doctrine and dogma as is your modus operandi - but hey, give it a go.

We'll be gentle.



ok, so your answer is no. You reject what the catechism has to say about homosexuality.

And of course you don't understand who the Pope is addressing when he is talking about "doctrinal security". He's addressing "Tradtionalists" who reject the Vatican 2 council which I fully embrace.

BTW, you forgot to include the word "exaggerated" when quoting the Pope on doctrinal security. Big difference.
 
ok, so your answer is no. You reject what the catechism has to say about homosexuality.

I don't claim to be a practicing Catholic...my answer has no bearing on anything.


BTW, you forgot to include the word "exaggerated" when quoting the Pope on doctrinal security. Big difference.

No, I didn't forget. I left it off deliberately. I do feel you are an "exaggerated" Catholic - very much so, in fact. But I am trying to live in the spirit of Francis and become a kinder, gentler person.

I am, however, rapidly coming to the conclusion that the kindest, gentlest thing I can do in regards to you is to ignore you.

Have a great day and a better weekend!
 
I don't claim to be a practicing Catholic...my answer has no bearing on anything.




No, I didn't forget. I left it off deliberately. I do feel you are an "exaggerated" Catholic - very much so, in fact. But I am trying to live in the spirit of Francis and become a kinder, gentler person.

I am, however, rapidly coming to the conclusion that the kindest, gentlest thing I can do in regards to you is to ignore you.

Have a great day and a better weekend!




If you were living the "spirit" of Francis, you would be living in communion with the church and it's Magisterium. Francis believes that there is sin. Francis believes in the Catechism. Francis believes in the totality of Catholic teaching not just the teachings that make him feel good about himself.
 
If you were living the "spirit" of Francis, you would be living in communion with the church and it's Magisterium. Francis believes that there is sin. Francis believes in the Catechism. Francis believes in the totality of Catholic teaching not just the teachings that make him feel good about himself.

I believe the "spirit" of Pope Francis accepts and respects those of all faiths - including those who have none.


"The Lord created us in His image and likeness, and we are the image of the Lord, and He does good and all of us have this commandment at heart: do good and do not do evil. All of us. ‘But, Father, this is not Catholic! He cannot do good.’ Yes, he can... "The Lord has redeemed all of us, all of us, with the Blood of Christ: all of us, not just Catholics. Everyone! ‘Father, the atheists?’ Even the atheists. Everyone!".. We must meet one another doing good. ‘But I don’t believe, Father, I am an atheist!’ But do good: we will meet one another there.”

Pope Francis Says Atheists Who Do Good Are Redeemed, Not Just Catholics

Raise young to respect other faiths, Pope says in message to Muslims | CatholicHerald.co.uk


You may not meet me there, but he will.

:)
 
I believe the "spirit" of Pope Francis accepts and respects those of all faiths - including those who have none.




Pope Francis Says Atheists Who Do Good Are Redeemed, Not Just Catholics

Raise young to respect other faiths, Pope says in message to Muslims | CatholicHerald.co.uk


You may not meet me there, but he will.

:)




So much for "ignoring" me :rolleyes:

Francis doesn't "accept" all faiths...lol. He's the Pope of the RCC for Pete's sake....lol.

Once again, you have misinterpreted what Francis is saying in that article which we went over in another thread in this forum.

He's saying that doing "good" will allow people to find a common ground to begin the journey to the fullness of truth, together. Again, this is very in line with the catechism.

He's also saying that we are all redeemed by the death of Jesus on the cross. Again, very much in line with the catechism.

What he is not saying is that those who have no faith can be assured the kingdom of heaven by rejecting the RCC. That would be contrary to catechism.

If you want to start the conversation at good works, I am all for it (as is the Pope). But don't be under the misconception that he's saying that these works without faith can save anyone.
 
Again, I have no doubt you will see what you want to see with those Progressive colored glasses but all you have to do is look at just a few little words in the the statement you cherry picked to understand where he's coming from on homosexuality:


"By saying this, I said what the catechism says"


A Big Heart Open to God | America Magazine


And this is what the catechism clearly says:


2357 Homosexuality refers to relations between men or between women who experience an exclusive or predominant sexual attraction toward persons of the same sex. It has taken a great variety of forms through the centuries and in different cultures. Its psychological genesis remains largely unexplained. Basing itself on Sacred Scripture, which presents homosexual acts as acts of grave depravity,141 tradition has always declared that "homosexual acts are intrinsically disordered."142 They are contrary to the natural law. They close the sexual act to the gift of life. They do not proceed from a genuine affective and sexual complementarity. Under no circumstances can they be approved.
2358 The number of men and women who have deep-seated homosexual tendencies is not negligible. This inclination, which is objectively disordered, constitutes for most of them a trial. They must be accepted with respect, compassion, and sensitivity. Every sign of unjust discrimination in their regard should be avoided. These persons are called to fulfill God's will in their lives and, if they are Christians, to unite to the sacrifice of the Lord's Cross the difficulties they may encounter from their condition.

2359 Homosexual persons are called to chastity. By the virtues of self-mastery that teach them inner freedom, at times by the support of disinterested friendship, by prayer and sacramental grace, they can and should gradually and resolutely approach Christian perfection.


Catechism of the Catholic Church - The sixth commandment


There is no hope if your hope is that he will change the teaching on homosexuality because he can't change it. It is part of the Universal and Ordinary teaching of the church and therefore, infallible.




Pope Francis’ comments about gays may have signaled a change in tone within the Catholic Church, but they did not reflect a break in church policy, a leading American Catholic cleric said Tuesday.

The church teaches to treat everyone — including gays — with dignity, even if they do not approve of the relationships they have, said Cardinal Timothy Dolan, president of the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops.

“What the pope is saying is, don’t forget there’s another element to God’s teaching, namely that we treat everybody with dignity and respect, that we don’t judge their heart, that we love and respect them,” he told TODAY’s Matt Lauer.

Dolan said the pontiff’s comments didn’t surprise him, but everyone’s reaction did.

This is no way could this be interpreted as a change in church doctrine or the church’s faith and morals. It is a change in tone," he said.

“It’s been a pretty clear teaching of the church based on the words of Jesus that we can’t judge people; we can judge actions,” he said.


But he emphasized that those actions — specifically, sexual relationships between gay people — are still considered immoral in the eyes of the Catholic church.

“Homosexual people deserve love respect and dignity, while homosexual acts are immoral,” Dolan said.


Cardinal Dolan on pope's gay remarks: We can judge actions, not people - TODAY.com

My quote was from your interview, as far as the rest goes is it all just crap that I do not care about and probably will not read... more BS.
 
My quote was from your interview, as far as the rest goes is it all just crap that I do not care about and probably will not read... more BS.


LMAO.....awwww.....are you all mad now that you've figured out the Pope isn't going to join your Progressive faith? :cry2:
 
are you all mad now that you've figured out the Pope isn't going to join your Progressive faith?

As a human being seeking enlightenment try very hard not to get mad or make an effort to get even.. that is for less informed people...

Are you aware of how stupid you sound???, you need a new line...

Without regard, my quote was verbatim from your article you countered with. Keep up with those "christian" ad hominen attacks... you validate my point about the shallowness of the hard right catholics.
 
As a human being seeking enlightenment try very hard not to get mad or make an effort to get even.. that is for less informed people...

Are you aware of how stupid you sound???, you need a new line...

Without regard, my quote was verbatim from your article you countered with. Keep up with those "christian" ad hominen attacks... you validate my point about the shallowness of the hard right catholics.



You know Darryl, with the ignorance you've displayed whether it be about the Catholic faith, or the NRA, or guns, or even military bases, I wouldn't accuse people of sounding "stupid" if you know what I mean. :rolleyes:
 
You know Darryl, with the ignorance you've displayed whether it be about the Catholic faith, or the NRA, or guns, or even military bases, I wouldn't accuse people of sounding "stupid" if you know what I mean.

Perhaps, but at least I understand what the term religion or faith means...

Pope Francis gave hope to a lot of Catholics last week with his message of love over doctrine... and that is a good thing and what Francis meant.
 


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