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I'm Loving Pope Francis


PS, regarding Francis chatting up some catechists? I am fine with him keeping that lot happy, don't care. I'm sure he's appeared before all sorts of groups in the last few months. I don't think a pope saying "hi" to these guys is incredibly unusual.

However, it is unusual for a pope to publicly proclaim "who am I to judge" a gay person, and to say people who "believe" and those who don't can meet each other on the common grounds of good works, with the strong implication that he extends the "common ground" heavenward. Just for example.

This pope's been about inclusiveness and helping those less fortunate. He certainly didn't say you can't lock yourself away somewhere and pore over the doctrines of the church. He just shows no signs of giving a **** for that life. He's all about the people.

PFnV



He wasn't saying "hi" to...."those people". He's not a politician. He doesn't need to get re-elected.

He was there to celebrate a mass of thanksgiving for "those people" who teach the faith and who hold the faith dear to them. He was reiterating the "beauty" of that vocation and the singular importance of the Catechism.

He hasn't been anymore "inclusive" than what the Catechism teaches.
For gays, he taught exactly what the Catechism teaches.
For those who don't believe, he taught exactly what the Catechism teaches....that we are all called to do good.

See, the problem here is that you are nearly wholly ignorant of what the Catechism teaches.....well you and most Progressives. If you actually took the time and read the catechism, then it would make more sense for you to comment on this Pope and what he is saying and doing.

The thing is that if you actually read the Catechism, you'd have to agree with me right now rather than with your Progressive faith.

But alas, I am sure you will not read the Catechism as I've found that most Progressives abhor independent study which might call them to question their Progressive faith.
 
He wasn't saying "hi" to...."those people". He's not a politician. He doesn't need to get re-elected.

He was there to celebrate a mass of thanksgiving for "those people" who teach the faith and who hold the faith dear to them. He was reiterating the "beauty" of that vocation and the singular importance of the Catechism.

He hasn't been anymore "inclusive" than what the Catechism teaches.
For gays, he taught exactly what the Catechism teaches.
For those who don't believe, he taught exactly what the Catechism teaches....that we are all called to do good.

See, the problem here is that you are nearly wholly ignorant of what the Catechism teaches.....well you and most Progressives. If you actually took the time and read the catechism, then it would make more sense for you to comment on this Pope and what he is saying and doing.

The thing is that if you actually read the Catechism, you'd have to agree with me right now rather than with your Progressive faith.

But alas, I am sure you will not read the Catechism as I've found that most Progressives abhor independent study which might call them to question their Progressive faith.


For someone who relies on doctrine rather than spirit, you certainly sound stupid...

You have found, you have found crap... you hear what you want to hear, and believe what you want to believe.. and do not understand what a religion is.

The continued obsession with sexual issues under the veil of violation of the sixth amendment is tired and worn out.

FYI there are a whole body of catholics who view themselves as "progressive", and you marginalize them, because you know better, or yours is the better way.

I will save you the bandwidth and idiotic rhetoric, as you will claim I do not know what I am talking about, only you do.. predictable, didactic, rote and no thought.
 
He's not a politician..

But he is. For all of your rhetoric about doctrine the simple fact of the matter is the catholic church is slipping into obscurity in most progressive, for your benefit, nations. So maybe he's saying these things to give the illusion of a more progressive catholic church but is really 100% about the doctrine like everybody past pope. For you to think a pope won't play to masses to garner popular opinion is short sighted at best.
 
Interesting actions and commentary yesterday...

“We pray to God for the victims of the tragic shipwreck off the coast of Lampedusa.”

Later the Pope addressed a conference marking the 50th anniversary of Blessed John XXIII’s encyclical Pacem in Terris (Peace on Earth). He tied the migrants’ tragedy to the “inhuman global economic crisis, a serious symptom of a lack of respect for the human person”. Calling the Lampedusa tragedy “shameful”, he asked everyone to renew efforts “to ensure that such tragedies are not repeated”.

Pope Francis visited Lampedusa, his first trip as Pontiff outside Rome, in July. The small Italian island and its Astalli refugee centre is the first port of call for scores of migrants arriving in Italy from all over the world.

Today he visited disabled children in Assissi... wonder if he checked their ID's to make sure they were really disabled... more on Lampedusa.

“Nobody cares about the many people who have to escape from the slavery of hunger, to escape in the search for freedom and with such pain. How often do we see that they find death as happened in Lampedusa. Today is a day of tears,”
 
For someone who relies on doctrine rather than spirit, you certainly sound stupid...

You have found, you have found crap... you hear what you want to hear, and believe what you want to believe.. and do not understand what a religion is.

The continued obsession with sexual issues under the veil of violation of the sixth amendment is tired and worn out.

FYI there are a whole body of catholics who view themselves as "progressive", and you marginalize them, because you know better, or yours is the better way.

I will save you the bandwidth and idiotic rhetoric, as you will claim I do not know what I am talking about, only you do.. predictable, didactic, rote and no thought.


Well, you don't know what you're talking about...it's plainly obvious. It's embarrassingly obvious. But you've demonstrated your lack of knowledge on so many subjects whether it be the Catholic faith, the NRA, tax laws, guns, gun law, military bases, etc....it's nearly endless.

So instead of arguing your point you resort to ad hominems and that is a sure sign to me of someone's lack of intelligence, maturity, and/or strength of argument.

Personally, I don't need to deal with people like that. So if you continue to resort to name calling, I'm simply going to ignore you. There are plenty of posters on here who don't need to resort to name calling.

So the choice is yours.
 
There are plenty of posters on here who don't need to resort to name calling.

I'm sure your tin foil hat will protect you. :rolleyes:

You seriously have issues.


Yes because you never call people names or insult their intelligence or give the arrogance eye roll feeling you're above all of us just because you only see things in your black and white world.

:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:
 
Well, you don't know what you're talking about...it's plainly obvious. It's embarrassingly obvious. But you've demonstrated your lack of knowledge on so many subjects whether it be the Catholic faith, the NRA, tax laws, guns, gun law, military bases, etc....it's nearly endless.

So instead of arguing your point you resort to ad hominems and that is a sure sign to me of someone's lack of intelligence, maturity, and/or strength of argument.

Personally, I don't need to deal with people like that. So if you continue to resort to name calling, I'm simply going to ignore you. There are plenty of posters on here who don't need to resort to name calling.

So the choice is yours.

Atypical response the omnipotent poster knows all.. what I do know is that Francis is breathing a breath of fresh air and is more concerned about spirit than doctrine...

You are the people that Francis is warning us about, as you talk condescendingly down to anyone who values the spirit of the catholic church... and believe that your doctrine is the intent. All the while pridefully talking down to anyone who disagrees or presents another POV..

He is also asking that the Church open Catholic convents and monasteries that are empty should be opened up to house migrants and refugees... wonder if they will have to have their ID's checked.

Pope Francis marks Assisi visit with call for church to shun worldliness | World news | theguardian.com

"This is a good occasion to invite the church to strip itself of worldliness," he said in a room that marks the spot where Saint Francis stripped naked as a young man, renounced his wealthy family and set out to serve the poor.

"There is a danger that threatens everyone in the church, all of us. The danger of worldliness. It leads us to vanity, arrogance and pride," said Francis in the richly frescoed room of the residence of the archbishop of Assisi.

"Many of you have been stripped by this savage world that does not give employment, that does not help, that does not care if there are children in the world who are dying of hunger, does not care if so many families have nothing to eat," he said.

He decried a world "that does not care about many people who have to flee poverty and hunger, flee seeking freedom and many times they find death, as happened yesterday in Lampedusa".
 
But he is. For all of your rhetoric about doctrine the simple fact of the matter is the catholic church is slipping into obscurity in most progressive, for your benefit, nations. So maybe he's saying these things to give the illusion of a more progressive catholic church but is really 100% about the doctrine like everybody past pope. For you to think a pope won't play to masses to garner popular opinion is short sighted at best.

Strikes me that the Church picked a life-long man-of-the-people guy, but that Francis is legitimately what he is.

And that's a guy who has far fewer problems with homosexuality, other religions, etc., than Benedict (poster boy for dogma.)

The Catholic righties' heads must be exploding all over the place, especially in the U.S. After all, they've been complaining about other people's "Cafeteria Catholicism" for years... what are they gonna do now that loving everybody and helping the poor is back on center stage?

It's also a genius PR move from the point of view of pedophelia scandals. People aren't focusing on the rapists in the priesthood, because the new Pope is wildly popular... that's the news on the Catholic beat right now, unless you happen to have a predator priest in your own local area.

PFnV
 
Strikes me that the Church picked a life-long man-of-the-people guy, but that Francis is legitimately what he is.

And that's a guy who has far fewer problems with homosexuality, other religions, etc., than Benedict (poster boy for dogma.)

The Catholic righties' heads must be exploding all over the place, especially in the U.S. After all, they've been complaining about other people's "Cafeteria Catholicism" for years... what are they gonna do now that loving everybody and helping the poor is back on center stage?

It's also a genius PR move from the point of view of pedophelia scandals. People aren't focusing on the rapists in the priesthood, because the new Pope is wildly popular... that's the news on the Catholic beat right now, unless you happen to have a predator priest in your own local area.

PFnV


There are no Catholic "righties"....there are either faithful Catholics or non-faithful Catholics. There is no right and left on issues in the church. There is only truth or error.

Again, Im not sure what you mean by...."fewer problems with gays."
Benedict and Francis are pretty much on the same page when it comes to homosexuality. Has Francis actually changed any of Benedict's decision's on homosexuality? As of today, I havent seen any changes....have you?

In fact, Benedict and Francis are very much alike except for their "style" and personalities. They've on the same page in terms of belief and Francis actually plans to finish an encyclical that Benedict had started to write.
Francis is very much in continuity with Bendedict.....not contradiction.



"Francis has announced that his first encyclical will be, in fact, written “with four hands,” meaning together with his predecessor. Benedict had almost finished the text ahead of his resignation and the new pope said he will be happy to complete it.

Moreover, according to Vatican commentator Sandro Magister, Francis’ focus on poverty in the church follows a course set out by Benedict in a major speech during his 2011 visit to Germany.

Once liberated from material and political burdens and privileges, the church can reach out more effectively and in a truly Christian way to the whole world, she can be truly open to the world,” Benedict said at the time.

An old friend and confidante of the German pope recently reported that Benedict said that “from the theological point of view,” he and Francis “are perfectly in agreement.” That opinion is shared even by some liberals within the church, who often said media portrayals of Benedict as a dour conservative missed the core of his teachings.

“Perhaps there is less discontinuity between these two popes than the press would have us believe. Much of what Francis is doing can be seen as an attempt to put flesh and blood on a theology which Benedict had already at least in part articulated,” said the Rev. Timothy Radcliffe, a former head of the Dominicans, in a recent interview with the “Pray Tell” website."

John Thavis, a former Rome bureau chief for Catholic News Service and a frequent Vatican commentator, said “there is tremendous continuity between popes,” which he says makes “even slight differences stand out.”

It’d be an illusion to expect radical change from Francis,” said ***gioli. “He is not a liberal Catholic, but a ‘social’ Catholic, with the old and the new mixed in a much more complex way than in a straightforward ‘progressive vs. conservative’ polarity.”


Benedict and Francis: How much difference is there? | Religion News Service


Again, believe what you like but the facts don't support your opinion. Not that you aren't used to that, but in this case it's even more strikingly obvious to those who aren't wearing their Progressive-colored glasses.
 
Atypical response the omnipotent poster knows all.. what I do know is that Francis is breathing a breath of fresh air and is more concerned about spirit than doctrine...

You are the people that Francis is warning us about, as you talk condescendingly down to anyone who values the spirit of the catholic church... and believe that your doctrine is the intent. All the while pridefully talking down to anyone who disagrees or presents another POV..

He is also asking that the Church open Catholic convents and monasteries that are empty should be opened up to house migrants and refugees... wonder if they will have to have their ID's checked.

Pope Francis marks Assisi visit with call for church to shun worldliness | World news | theguardian.com



First of all, it's omniscient not omnipotent. Omnipotent is "all powerful".....omniscient is "all knowing". :rolleyes:

So yes, I guess you "know" what Francis is doing about as well as you know what omnipotent means......lol.

Do you see why it's tough for me to take you seriously when you're constantly wrong?

Well, I guess at least you're consistent. :confused2:
 
First of all, it's omniscient not omnipotent. Omnipotent is "all powerful".....omniscient is "all knowing".

So yes, I guess you "know" what Francis is doing about as well as you know what omnipotent means......lol.

Do you see why it's tough for me to take you seriously when you're constantly wrong?

Well, I guess at least you're consistent.

What would this come under pride or more bombastic exposition.. wasn't there something in the good book about all of this?? Usually those who self aggrandize this much are very insecure people... need to validate their beliefs in anonymous forums.

Perhaps now that you are done attacking this poster you might want to respond to this.. wonder if Francis did a background check to make sure they are truly needy.

"This is a good occasion to invite the church to strip itself of worldliness," he said in a room that marks the spot where Saint Francis stripped naked as a young man, renounced his wealthy family and set out to serve the poor.

"There is a danger that threatens everyone in the church, all of us. The danger of worldliness. It leads us to vanity, arrogance and pride," said Francis in the richly frescoed room of the residence of the archbishop of Assisi.

"Many of you have been stripped by this savage world that does not give employment, that does not help, that does not care if there are children in the world who are dying of hunger, does not care if so many families have nothing to eat," he said.

He decried a world "that does not care about many people who have to flee poverty and hunger, flee seeking freedom and many times they find death, as happened yesterday in Lampedusa".

Poll: Catholics agree with Pope Francis that church is 'obsessed' with moral issues | Religion News Service

The survey, released Friday (Oct. 4), by Quinnipiac University, shows that two in three (68 percent) adult Catholics questioned said they agreed with the pontiff’s observation that the church has become too focused on issues such as homosexuality, abortion and contraception.

Just 23 percent disagreed, and the breakdown was virtually the same across age groups and among both weekly Mass-goers and those who attend church less frequently.

All the while 60% of Catholics agree with gay marriage, which continues to increase.. not that it matters, the decisions will be made for them.

The times they are a changing...

I anticipate your pontification and denigration, which is your trademark...
 
There are no Catholic "righties"....there are either faithful Catholics or non-faithful Catholics. There is no right and left on issues in the church. There is only truth or error.

So when a group of Cardinals get together there's no debating topics? They are all 100% on the same page and in lockstep? There is zero chance this is true. You like deal in absolutes (insert sith joke here) and there's really very few things that are absolute.

Oh, Lord: Catholic bishop goes after guns, says bans foster pro-life culture - Washington Times

This Bishop is for gun control. So I guess that means you're in error.
 
So when a group of Cardinals get together there's no debating topics? They are all 100% on the same page and in lockstep? There is zero chance this is true. You like deal in absolutes (insert sith joke here) and there's really very few things that are absolute.

Oh, Lord: Catholic bishop goes after guns, says bans foster pro-life culture - Washington Times

This Bishop is for gun control. So I guess that means you're in error.

But... this Bishop is Catholic... but... there are no left or right Catholics... but... this Bishop is to the left of me on guns.... but... I am a Catholic... therefore he cannot be... illogical! Illogical! Please explain... only humans can explain this behavior...

Capt. Kirk talks a robot to death - YouTube
 
But... this Bishop is Catholic... but... there are no left or right Catholics... but... this Bishop is to the left of me on guns.... but... I am a Catholic... therefore he cannot be... illogical! Illogical! Please explain... only humans can explain this behavior...

This does not compute...........

images
 
What would this come under pride or more bombastic exposition.. wasn't there something in the good book about all of this?? Usually those who self aggrandize this much are very insecure people... need to validate their beliefs in anonymous forums.

Perhaps now that you are done attacking this poster you might want to respond to this.. wonder if Francis did a background check to make sure they are truly needy.



Poll: Catholics agree with Pope Francis that church is 'obsessed' with moral issues | Religion News Service



All the while 60% of Catholics agree with gay marriage, which continues to increase.. not that it matters, the decisions will be made for them.

The times they are a changing...

I anticipate your pontification and denigration, which is your trademark...



No, I'm just stating the obvious....you don't understand the Catholic church. It is painfully obvious you don't understand the Catholic church.

The fact that you you would use a poll as a reflection of, well, anything to do with the Catholic church is just ridiculous.

You don't understand the Magisterium. You don't understand revelation. You honestly believe that American popular opinion matters when it comes to Catholic teaching. Just incredible.

This is the Roman Catholic Catechism on the Magisterium, it's authority, and who makes up the Magisterium:


2032 The Church, the "pillar and bulwark of the truth," "has received this solemn command of Christ from the apostles to announce the saving truth."74 "To the Church belongs the right always and everywhere to announce moral principles, including those pertaining to the social order, and to make judgments on any human affairs to the extent that they are required by the fundamental rights of the human person or the salvation of souls."75

2034 The Roman Pontiff and the bishops are "authentic teachers, that is, teachers endowed with the authority of Christ, who preach the faith to the people entrusted to them, the faith to be believed and put into practice."76 The ordinary and universal Magisterium of the Pope and the bishops in communion with him teach the faithful the truth to believe, the charity to practice, the beatitude to hope for.

2035 The supreme degree of participation in the authority of Christ is ensured by the charism of infallibility. This infallibility extends as far as does the deposit of divine Revelation; it also extends to all those elements of doctrine, including morals, without which the saving truths of the faith cannot be preserved, explained, or observed.77




Catechism of the Catholic Church - The Church, Mother and Teacher


Polls don't matter. They never have and they never will matter.

The Catholic church is not a Democracy.
 
No, I'm just stating the obvious....you don't understand the Catholic church. It is painfully obvious you don't understand the Catholic church.

The fact that you you would use a poll as a reflection of, well, anything to do with the Catholic church is just ridiculous.

You don't understand the Magisterium. You don't understand revelation. You honestly believe that American popular opinion matters when it comes to Catholic teaching. Just incredible.

Polls don't matter. They never have and they never will matter.

The Catholic church is not a Democracy.

Au contraire, you can have all the doctrine you want, but if your congregations do not believe it.. it does not mean a whole lot...

The reality is in the American Catholic Church, there are a lot of rules, but not a lot of rule followers, most view their dictates as suggestions, and know Christ did not say a lot of this stuff.

You can hide behind your rules, rulemakers and authority to do so.. the practice by the faithful is diametrically opposed...

You find comfort in the structure and dictates, most I know find comfort in the spirit of the catholic church and the teachings of Christ...

I know much more than you think I do...
 
But... this Bishop is Catholic... but... there are no left or right Catholics... but... this Bishop is to the left of me on guns.... but... I am a Catholic... therefore he cannot be... illogical! Illogical! Please explain... only humans can explain this behavior...

Capt. Kirk talks a robot to death - YouTube


You demonstrate yet again your lack of understanding of the Magisterium. A Bishop can say anything he wants but not everything he says is "Catholic teaching".

A Bishop is certainly allowed to express his point of view but it is not infallible teaching when he speaks alone. Even when the US Bishops speak together, there is no infallibility guarantee.

There is no Catholic infallible teaching on guns. Look for it in the Catechism....you won't find it because it doesn't exist.
 
Au contraire, you can have all the doctrine you want, but if your congregations do not believe it.. it does not mean a whole lot...

The reality is in the American Catholic Church, there are a lot of rules, but not a lot of rule followers, most view their dictates as suggestions, and know Christ did not say a lot of this stuff.

You can hide behind your rules, rulemakers and authority to do so.. the practice by the faithful is diametrically opposed...

You find comfort in the structure and dictates, most I know find comfort in the spirit of the catholic church and the teachings of Christ...

I know much more than you think I do...




It's obvious you don't understand Catholicism with each post you make. I'm not going to waste my time with you anymore on this issue. You are so indoctrinated in Progressivism that no matter how much evidence I present it isn't going to matter.

You believe that the people control the Magisterium......go for it. Enjoy the fruits of your belief.
 
You honestly believe that American popular opinion matters when it comes to Catholic teaching. Just incredible.

Then why not do the right thing and come clean about priests raping children? Why try to cover it up. It's you who doesn't understand the Catholic church. They are just another group looking out for their own best interests. You have this idealistic view of your church that isn't reality. The church very much cares about public perception.
 
It's obvious you don't understand Catholicism with each post you make. I'm not going to waste my time with you anymore on this issue. You are so indoctrinated in Progressivism that no matter how much evidence I present it isn't going to matter.

You believe that the people control the Magisterium......go for it. Enjoy the fruits of your belief.

My beliefs are based on what I see and what I hear, not what is necessarily written by white haired men.. it has nothing to do with political ideology, it has to do with the spirit of which Francis speaks.. you present little evidence except the Catechism..

60% of American Catholics believe in gay marriage, so either the message given is not paid attention to or just not believed... 42% believe in a woman's right to choose... studies indicate that up to 90% believe in contraception... 22% of the married catholics have been divorced. The more that is read, the greater the disconnect between practice and doctrine exists... In Ireland, long a bastion of Catholicism, 90% Catholics believe priests should be allowed to marry, 77 % of Irish Catholics believe that women should be ordained as priests, 75% did not see that the Church’s teaching on sexuality were relevant
and 60% disagreed with the Catholic Church’s stance “that any sexual expression of love between gay couples is immoral”

Calling someone names or generalizing is exactly what Francis has been speaking of.. to entrench and wear a cloak of doctrine, is diametrically opposed to what he is preaching...

Your pontification of pious platitudes is anticipated...
 


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