If Graham Won't Sign Long Term . . .

[5 Rings for Brady!!]

You swine, you have prompted me to "think outside the box" (and it's awfully chilly out here!), and this 'think' stuff is always upsetting.

We have been evaluating Graham's value as a Tight End, what is his value as the "sixth offensive lineman?" If Matt Light is good for a 5 year/$27M deal, is Graham's 'shades of Hannah' blocking in that range? What makes an elite Tight End? Are 80 catches a year the only standard? With a new look backfield, is blocking skill at Tight End going to be a more important factor in the value assessment? I'd think it at least rates a 50/50 split, as beautiful as a Ben Watson 30 yard reception is, a 30 yard Dillon/Maroney scamper is it's equal.

Time to get back into my cozy corner and watch the fur fly.

Box: Your man-crush on Grambo is getting a little unhealthy.....

I just think that he is going to want more money and get franchised and then traded. He seems to be hinting at that already, if you believe the rumors.
And if you don't like rumors, then look at the track record for the Pats FO. They ain't overpaying anybody and they will have a very clinical assessment of Grambo's value.

I think they will offer him what he is really worth to the team, but that nevers seems to be enough for these young whipper-snappers.

 

[flutie2phelan]

It's funny when thinking about value to the team I thought Graham was worth more than Branch. I know TE's aren't valued as highly. I think Graham is worth franchise money.

I have thought that Grahambo is comparatively better at what he does ...
than HeWhoShallNotBeNamed is at what HE does.

I would imagine we can re-ink him for little more than half the cost of HeWho... .
But is that good value?
I'd like to hear.

 

[drew4008]

Do you think maybe Belichick has put Hobbs as #1 CB because he wants to lower Samuel's value in free agency? Let's say they are equal talents, wouldn't it be smarter to put Samuel #2 in his contract year, then when dealing with him say, we'll offer you good #2 CB value (which is still a good chunk of money, look at what the Jags gave Brian Williams, very comparative of what Samuel will want FYI), instead of having to pay him #1 value. Just a thought of how BB's brain may be working... you know he's always looking ahead to the future.

 

[5 Rings for Brady!!]

Can we just worry about this year's team and not worry about next year. That's why we have David Thomas and Garrett Mills.

This team will be good, the WR's will be ok and next year people will come and people will go.

It's like people are just looking for negatives. Is that what it is to be a Boston fan?

Poor Richard Seymour, maybe he will be so distraught over Deion's loss that he will donate some of his millions to the other players. Oh, I see, he's not that distraught.

What are you, the HAPPY HAPPY JOY JOY bunny rabbit?

If people want to be positive, negative, neutral, outlandish, mature, crazed dogs.........What do you care?

This internet belongs to everyone. Some of us want the Pats to string together a few consistent efforts against teams that are better than the Bills before we think that this team is going to Miami in February.

Some people think the Pats have a bad Front Office and are doomed.

Some people look at the Bills game and think we are world beaters and on a mission.

What gives you the right to try and pre-screen other people's opinions so that only the absolute positive comes out?

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

Box: Your man-crush on Grambo is getting a little unhealthy.....

I just think that he is going to want more money and get franchised and then traded. He seems to be hinting at that already, if you believe the rumors.
And if you don't like rumors, then look at the track record for the Pats FO. They ain't overpaying anybody and they will have a very clinical assessment of Grambo's value.

I think they will offer him what he is really worth to the team, but that nevers seems to be enough for these young whipper-snappers.

Big sweaty Tight Ends are just my thing doncha know? An', let's not be tawkin' no man crush boosheet with a screen name that screams "take me big boy!"

Now the question isn't does he want more money, that's a Givens. The question is, when assessing whether he is worth the asking price, do we treat him like a LT substitute, or just another pair of upfield hands?

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

Do you think maybe Belichick has put Hobbs as #1 CB because he wants to lower Samuel's value in free agency? Let's say they are equal talents, wouldn't it be smarter to put Samuel #2 in his contract year, then when dealing with him say, we'll offer you good #2 CB value (which is still a good chunk of money, look at what the Jags gave Brian Williams, very comparative of what Samuel will want FYI), instead of having to pay him #1 value. Just a thought of how BB's brain may be working... you know he's always looking ahead to the future.

No.

1010101010

 

[5 Rings for Brady!!]

Do you think maybe Belichick has put Hobbs as #1 CB because he wants to lower Samuel's value in free agency? Let's say they are equal talents, wouldn't it be smarter to put Samuel #2 in his contract year, then when dealing with him say, we'll offer you good #2 CB value (which is still a good chunk of money, look at what the Jags gave Brian Williams, very comparative of what Samuel will want FYI), instead of having to pay him #1 value. Just a thought of how BB's brain may be working... you know he's always looking ahead to the future.

I disagree. Belichick does not play games with who does what on the field of play. The best man is always at each position. Hobbs is faster than Samuels and covered the Bills deep threat WR. At this point, he probably is better too, which would make him their #1 by default.

Belichick says all the time that player stats for good or bad mean nothing to him, it's about helping the team be the best it can be. I don't think he is trying to hide Samuels or anybody else, but he is not looking to throw anyone a bone either, for the most part. He wants to win the game by putting the best player at each position.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

What are you, the HAPPY HAPPY JOY JOY bunny rabbit?

If people want to be positive, negative, neutral, outlandish, mature, crazed dogs.........What do you care?

This internet belongs to everyone. Some of us want the Pats to string together a few consistent efforts against teams that are better than the Bills before we think that this team is going to Miami in February.

Some people think the Pats have a bad Front Office and are doomed.

Some people look at the Bills game and think we are world beaters and on a mission.

What gives you the right to try and pre-screen other people's opinions so that only the absolute positive comes out?

If you have a right to complain about the team, he has a right to complain about your negativity, and you have a right to complain about his complaint, and I have a right to complain about you complain about his complaining.

Waiter, what cheese goes with this selection? :bricks:

 

[5 Rings for Brady!!]

Big sweaty Tight Ends are just my thing doncha know? An', let's not be tawkin' no man crush boosheet with a screen name that screams "take me big boy!"

Now the question isn't does he want more money, that's a Givens. The question is, when assessing whether he is worth the asking price, do we treat him like a LT substitute, or just another pair of upfield hands?

Okay, now you are just scaring me.

The answer is, none of the above.

Grambo is going to get an offer in the 'bottom to middle of the top ten' range of TE's. He is likely going to be looking to break the bank.

Do you want him to be paid like a back up swing tackle, along the lines of a Gorin or Ashworth? That won't be enough. Do you want to pay him for his somewhat limited catching stats? That won't be enough.

He is not worth as much as Antonio Gates, IMO. Maybe not as much as Watson, given another year.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

Okay, now you are just scaring me.

The answer is, none of the above.

Grambo is going to get an offer in the 'bottom to middle of the top ten' range of TE's. He is likely going to be looking to break the bank.

Do you want him to be paid like a back up swing tackle, along the lines of a Gorin or Ashworth? That won't be enough. Do you want to pay him for his somewhat limited catching stats? That won't be enough.

He is not worth as much as Antonio Gates, IMO. Maybe not as much as Watson, given another year.

I want him to be paid for what he brings to THIS team, Gates et. al. do not matter to me.

These are the 2006 cap hits for the four highest paid OL and Grahambo (courtesy of Miguel):
Matt Light $3,420,325
Dan Koppen $1,608,160
Dan Graham $1,569,910
Stephen Neal $1,506,160
Logan Mankins $1,176,160

Koppen must have hit some incentives, he's doing okay for a 5th rounder. Graham is in on most offensive snaps, he blocks as well as an OL, is a solid receiver who can line up in the slot or work out of the backfield in addition to TE, he lines up at FB, and he plays Special Teams. If injury situations went as haywire as the 04 Pittsburgh game again, I'd wouldn't hesitate too much over using him at LT with a little RB/TE help - a very bad situation I admit, but he has spent entire games fighting the likes of Julius Peppers before, nothing new here.

I'm no expert in salary or capology, but if you just include passing statistics, without assessing the number of plays he's on the field and multiple roles he plays, your making a really big mistake. BB & SP won't be making that mistake, I won't be surprised to see them offer a substantial dollar value that will have more than a few here slack-jawed and glassy-eyed (well, more so than normal). My concern will be the teams, like Washington and Tennessee, who can't put their wallets away - I just hate to see good players wasted.

 

[dryheat44]

I want him to be paid for what he brings to THIS team, Gates et. al. do not matter to me.

These are the 2006 cap hits for the four highest paid OL and Grahambo (courtesy of Miguel):
Matt Light $3,420,325
Dan Koppen $1,608,160
Dan Graham $1,569,910
Stephen Neal $1,506,160
Logan Mankins $1,176,160

Koppen must have hit some incentives, he's doing okay for a 5th rounder. Graham is in on most offensive snaps, he blocks as well as an OL, is a solid receiver who can line up in the slot or work out of the backfield in addition to TE, he lines up at FB, and he plays Special Teams. If injury situations went as haywire as the 04 Pittsburgh game again, I'd wouldn't hesitate too much over using him at LT with a little RB/TE help - a very bad situation I admit, but he has spent entire games fighting the likes of Julius Peppers before, nothing new here.

I'm no expert in salary or capology, but if you just include passing statistics, without assessing the number of plays he's on the field and multiple roles he plays, your making a really big mistake. BB & SP won't be making that mistake, I won't be surprised to see them offer a substantial dollar value that will have more than a few here slack-jawed and glassy-eyed (well, more so than normal). My concern will be the teams, like Washington and Tennessee, who can't put their wallets away - I just hate to see good players wasted.

Very well said. I also believe that Belichick puts a much higher value on Graham than most fans and most other GMs.

 

[shakadave]

I have thought that Grahambo is comparatively better at what he does ...
than HeWhoShallNotBeNamed is at what HE does.

I would imagine we can re-ink him for little more than half the cost of HeWho... .
But is that good value?
I'd like to hear.

Yes, great value. We should sign Graham for any reasonable number.

 

[5 Rings for Brady!!]

Box: Gates's, or any other top TE's salary might not make any difference in your well warmed funky old couch seat, but it will be the only thing that matters to Grambo's agent.

And don't be so quick to assume that we don't 'get' Grambo's value. It's a question of what he will be offered by the Pats, and it will be less than he will be offered elsewhere. You really are missing the boat if you think otherwise. Seymour and Light and Bruschi and others could have made more on the open market. That's gonna be Grambo's call.

I think just about ALL of the Pats deals have been GENEROUS. What they offered Woody, what they offered Branch, what they offered Givens, what they offered Ted Washington. People like Ty Law and Marc Edwards left town for a few extra peanuts, and that is their right. But they were offered what they were worth, because they barely made any more elsewhere. The kicker was offered what he was worth, IMO. Seymour and Brady and Bruschi, maybe Brown at this point, are the only players that took a 'value' discount, IMO. The rest were offered what they are worth to the Pats.

I fully expect Grambo to be offered EXACTLY what he is worth by the Pats, and it won't take me by surprise if it is a 'middle of the top bracket' offer. Meaning right behind the Gates type players who get slightly overpaid.

The difference, I guess, is that I will let the Pats make their offer, without trying too guess it exactly today.

Maybe you can speculate on why they haven't made him any offers at all that we know of up until this point? They always seem to try to wrap the critical players up a year early. Seems curious to me, because I like Grambo just as much as the next drooling, glassy eyed fan. I happen to be a little more realistic than some on whether he will actually end up on the team next year, but that won't ever taint my good opinion of him. Unless he acts like Branch.

 

[Kdo5]

Really? You think so? Graham isnt going to be signed? All three are important and need to be signed but Graham needs to be signed. All around he is a great TE and like it or not overall he is better than Watson. The Patriots know he is a top priority. He gets resigned.

 

[patsfan55]

Light has looked shaky since coming back even in TC.

It could be him just getting back into form but its going to take some time.

i reallly hope he bounces back cuz he looked AWFUL on sunday

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

i reallly hope he bounces back cuz he looked AWFUL on sunday

Schobel has 8.5 sacks against Brady, no other player is close, he always gives Light fits, just this time there was a rookie on the right side and Light had to soldier on the best he could as help was parceled out. We'll have to wait and see how things go when Nick gets healthy, I had thought he might be able to beat Matt out for LT in camp, but not from the Trainer's room.

 

[ATippett56]

Schobel has 8.5 sacks against Brady, no other player is close.

Since 2001, Jason Taylor has 7.5 sacks against Brady.

 

[5 Rings for Brady!!]

Really? You think so? Graham isnt going to be signed? All three are important and need to be signed but Graham needs to be signed. All around he is a great TE and like it or not overall he is better than Watson. The Patriots know he is a top priority. He gets resigned.

Please tell me why the Pats have made no negotiation attempts with Grambo and also why they signed two TEs from the draft. They always attempt to sign their critical players a year early, and Grambo claims that he has not been approached. I'm not inventing this stuff, I am observing it. Let me know what you think.

Next, there is a rumor that Grambo will give the Pats just ONE chance to 'get it right' or he is gone. Yes, just a rumor. But not started by me.

Third, why have you decided that Grambo will be offered more money than he could possibly make on any other team? Or, on the other side of the coin, why have you decided that Grambo is going to bend over and take less to stay, when the current rumor is that he won't?

I like Grambo just as much as the next guy warming his couch out here in cyberspace, but I have not seen a SINGLE sign of any type that indicates he will stay. Just a observation.

I will say this, if the Pats FO is going to offer him an extension, it will be very soon here, because they are always very pro-active with their important players. So it could go down any week now, with all the cash they have on hand.

And I wouldn't be surprise if they do something soon, but if they don't offer exactly what he wants, it is likely that Grambo is going to hit free agency like a lightning bolt.

 

[dryheat44]

I think now that the Branch situation has resolved itself, we'll see some extensions being discussed.

Even Belichick realizes the value of positive PR involved with locking up players and making them feel wanted, and right now he needs some positive PR and show his human side, rather than the icy businessman approach.

That at the cap room.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

Since 2001, Jason Taylor has 7.5 sacks against Brady.

Thanks for the correction.

:enranged: Jason Taylor!