If Brady expects to be "considered" the best.....

[Joker]

That's not the point of this thread though...look at the title...the OP puts this all on Brady...like Brady is blabbing his big mouth off about being the best of all time...and Mr OP is going to tell HIM how it's going to be...these threads all vomit forth from the same inane little ego mad know-it-all.

Here's a newsflash...Tom Brady has NEVER EVER said he expects, would expect, should expect or wants everyone to expect that HE be called the greatest of all time. This is complete garbage. It's put out there by some clownboy with a hater agenda who thinks he's going to slyly establish parameters that have yet to be reached as THE demarcation point in any ongoing discussion

What this "Kid" should have stated from the start is that this thread is HIS idea of what Tom Brady has to do to be considered the all time great....and to carry this even further, "Kid" Brady is a totally insulting,trollboy logon. Brady is not anybody's "kid", nor is he a "kid". He is a 12 year veteran of the NFL who has PROVEN what kind of man he is a hundred times over. In prison, you call someone a kid it's the same as calling them a punk...it's the same on the street.

Brady has been the best quarterback in Patriots history, without question. That is good enough for me.

Now..as far as YOU go, Aqua4ever...I happen to remember the last time YOU were seen on these threads back in 2009...before you were ERASED from the membership. I also remember your pathologically driven "Dan Marino is the greatest QB of all time with out question!!!" platform and your incessant reference to Brady as "just a kid". Well, let me just say this, Don Noringo is a smug, jealous ,narcissistic has been and..."it's too bad that Dan won't get his ring"...

 

[lurker1965]

Does he have to get that 4th superbowl?

Joe Montana 4
Terry Bradshaw 4
Troy Aikmen 3
Tom Brady 3

These are the other guys with multiple superbowls (3 or more). I honestly don't think Bradshaw is in the deabte based on true skill and talent but Montana and Aikmen were pretty darn good. Right now, should Joe Montana be considered the best? He's never lost a superbowl nor has he thrown an interception in a superbowl. Brady will no doubt be a 1st ballot HOF but knowing Brady, he wants this last ring to solidify the position as "the best".

Brady has been so close the last 2 trips and I know it pains us all that he could have 5 and would easily be considered the best with 5 rings. Does he need that 4th ring to be considered the best, or in his role model's class, Joe Montana? We all understand that his window is closing and I give him 3 years max.

Thoughts?

Dear Kid, and all you young uns,

Brady, Montana, etc. are not even close to best all time.

#3 Is Bart Starr; Yes, only 2 Super Bowls but several NFL championships before the Super Bowls -I think 5 total.
Hall of Famers » BART STARR

#2 Otto Graham; 10 year career, each year in a championship game and won 7 of them. (The first 4 were in the AAFC a competitor that merged with NFL in 1952 after Otto's Cleveland Browns won the only 4, then were in the next six, winning 3)
Hall of Famers » OTTO GRAHAM

#1 Slingin' Sammy Baugh; Screw championships - although he has a few - he change the position of QB from one of 4 guys that might run the ball into the guy who might pass it. (Even his number, 33, is RB number.)
Hall of Famers » SAMMY BAUGH

If Brady changes the TACTICS of the game, he might surpass Baugh.

 

[lurker1965]

"Intelligent"... you mean like name-calling? LOL! :rocker:

F_CK _FF. Would you like to buy a vowel?

 

[lurker1965]

And Eli's throw to Tynes was catchable, and he made the catch. Yet, every one of you say it was "*********", "luck", etc.

Dear Idiot,

In any subject one can tell when someone is full of crap. They use universals. Yes, EVERY ONE of them.

 

[Pats1989]

Does he have to get that 4th superbowl?

Joe Montana 4
Terry Bradshaw 4
Troy Aikmen 3
Tom Brady 3

These are the other guys with multiple superbowls (3 or more). I honestly don't think Bradshaw is in the deabte based on true skill and talent but Montana and Aikmen were pretty darn good. Right now, should Joe Montana be considered the best? He's never lost a superbowl nor has he thrown an interception in a superbowl. Brady will no doubt be a 1st ballot HOF but knowing Brady, he wants this last ring to solidify the position as "the best".

Brady has been so close the last 2 trips and I know it pains us all that he could have 5 and would easily be considered the best with 5 rings. Does he need that 4th ring to be considered the best, or in his role model's class, Joe Montana? We all understand that his window is closing and I give him 3 years max.

Thoughts?

Sorry but when you lose two super bowls to Eli Manning, you are not the best. Joe was simply great in his super bowls and never threw a pick. With one minute left in the game and down by a score, I use to feel Brady would lead us to victory. Now, not as much anymore. The last few years he has struggled in the playoffs and I cannot get over losing two Super Bowls and having Eli outperform him. No he is not the best even if he wins a few more!!

 

[SHOWTIME15]

Sorry but when you lose two super bowls to Eli Manning, you are not the best. Joe was simply great in his super bowls and never threw a pick. With one minute left in the game and down by a score, I use to feel Brady would lead us to victory. Now, not as much anymore. The last few years he has struggled in the playoffs and I cannot get over losing two Super Bowls and having Eli outperform him. No he is not the best even if he wins a few more!!

except Joe lost 2 NFC championship games. not so clutch, huh?

 

[Pats1989]

except Joe lost 2 NFC championship games. not so clutch, huh?

Tom Brady is not the greatest of all time. Joe Montana is. do you agree or disagree with this? Fact: Joe won 4. Fact: Brady won 3. Fact: 4 is one more than 3. I do not care about getting to more Super Bowls than Montana. I care about Wins. Also, people will remember two lost Super Bowls over NFC title games.

 

[Kid~Brady]

Sorry but when you lose two super bowls to Eli Manning, you are not the best. Joe was simply great in his super bowls and never threw a pick. With one minute left in the game and down by a score, I use to feel Brady would lead us to victory. Now, not as much anymore. The last few years he has struggled in the playoffs and I cannot get over losing two Super Bowls and having Eli outperform him. No he is not the best even if he wins a few more!!

True.

But I hate when people say that another quarterback "outplayed" Brady. If Brady had to play against our defense last year, the last ranked pass defense, what do you think he'd do to them?

Eli outplayed the defense.

 

[OMGWTFJUDD]

I'm not sure any answer to the OP can be tested sufficiently to satisfy anyone.

All I know is that whilst Brady has been at the Pat's they've gone from a team that nobody takes much notice of to being the side everyone want's to beat. He didn't do it on his own and similar questions might include.

Is Kraft the greatest owner/administrator of all time?
Is BB the best coach of all time.?

On and off the field they are considered the benchmark for excellence and, although it helps, it doesn't guarantee SB wins.

In Brady's time we've won 3 and lost 2 SB's. When you look at the scores in those games we are currently only +2 in points after 20 quarters of football.

These things are hard to win. We could easily be 5-0 or any combination of w/l through to 0-5.

All we know is this. He's what we have and he's just about as good as we can hope for. He's a cog, A BIG COG, but a cog and he has helped give us a better than average chance to get to the SB.

 

[Snake Eyes]

Tom Brady is not the greatest of all time. Joe Montana is. do you agree or disagree with this? Fact: Joe won 4. Fact: Brady won 3

Teams win games, not QBs.

 

[Deus Irae]

Sorry but when you lose two super bowls to Eli Manning, you are not the best. Joe was simply great in his super bowls and never threw a pick. With one minute left in the game and down by a score, I use to feel Brady would lead us to victory. Now, not as much anymore. The last few years he has struggled in the playoffs and I cannot get over losing two Super Bowls and having Eli outperform him. No he is not the best even if he wins a few more!!

That is probably the silliest post that's ever been written on this topic. Congratulations on that, I guess.

 

[supafly]

These things are hard to win. We could easily be 5-0 or any combination of w/l through to 0-5.

I think that's a great point. All 5 SB's were played within a 4 point window, losing by 3 and 4, and winning by 3, 3, and 3.

I don't think that any fan with knowledge should really put that on Brady. These championship games have lived up to the hype, particularly lately, and proven to be great matchups--as they really should be.

The bottom line is that in his 11 seasons played (obviously not counting the one where he went down 5 minutes into the season) he has taken us to the SB 5x, and the AFCCG 6x, so you know you're going to be playing for all the marbles about 50% of the time with him under center.

 

[Fixit]

Tom Brady is not the greatest of all time. Joe Montana is. do you agree or disagree with this? Fact: Joe won 4. Fact: Brady won 3. Fact: 4 is one more than 3. I do not care about getting to more Super Bowls than Montana. I care about Wins. Also, people will remember two lost Super Bowls over NFC title games.

So, Montana is better than Brady because he's won more Super Bowls. However, even if Brady wins "a few more" Super Bowls, he won't be better than Montana.

Yeah, your opinion counts.

 

[Bman12]

Once he gets 5!

 

[supafly]

Once he gets 5!

The current "new" era of free agency should certainly be taken into account in this discussion too.

Players like Montana, Bradshaw, didn't have to deal with much turnover during their days, where guys like Brady are lucky to see some of the same players a few years down the road altogether. Let's imagine Joe Montana throwing to Reche Caldwell, etc. It isn't pretty.

Brady is obviously in the conversation for greatest of all time based on many things. He would certainly be considered the greatest by an even higher number of people if he won another SB before he retires.

The chances of that are pretty good in my opinion, considering that he hasn't shown any major kind of dropoff to date. He should have another 4 seasons in him at least, and he pretty much has a 50% success rate as it is, having taken them to the SB 5x and the AFFCG 6x in just 11 seasons played.

 

[patsfan13]

Well most people of course differentiate between the modern era QB and the older guys you cite, Starr (like Unitas) spans the 2 eras.

I would observe that now the game is much more about the pass than in the early era of the NFL, the team Starr played for was based on the sweep not passing to win football games.

And of course the defenses these played faced were incredible simple by today's standards. No sub packages everyone played a 4-3 with man coverage every week.

Even Starr with the Lombardi dynasty Packers could come close to Brady's winning percentage in the regular season. Of course for 3 of Starr's championships he only had to win 1 game not 3 playoff games.

Different eras very hard to compare.

Dear Kid, and all you young uns,

Brady, Montana, etc. are not even close to best all time.

#3 Is Bart Starr; Yes, only 2 Super Bowls but several NFL championships before the Super Bowls -I think 5 total.
Hall of Famers » BART STARR

#2 Otto Graham; 10 year career, each year in a championship game and won 7 of them. (The first 4 were in the AAFC a competitor that merged with NFL in 1952 after Otto's Cleveland Browns won the only 4, then were in the next six, winning 3)
Hall of Famers » OTTO GRAHAM

#1 Slingin' Sammy Baugh; Screw championships - although he has a few - he change the position of QB from one of 4 guys that might run the ball into the guy who might pass it. (Even his number, 33, is RB number.)
Hall of Famers » SAMMY BAUGH

If Brady changes the TACTICS of the game, he might surpass Baugh.

 

[patsfan13]

Sorry but when you lose two super bowls to Eli Manning, you are not the best. Joe was simply great in his super bowls and never threw a pick. With one minute left in the game and down by a score, I use to feel Brady would lead us to victory. Now, not as much anymore. The last few years he has struggled in the playoffs and I cannot get over losing two Super Bowls and having Eli outperform him. No he is not the best even if he wins a few more!!

Using your reasoning when you lose 3 conference championship games to P Simms, J McMahon you aren't really the GOAT?

Really?

 

[MoLewisrocks]

Sorry but when you lose two super bowls to Eli Manning, you are not the best. Joe was simply great in his super bowls and never threw a pick. With one minute left in the game and down by a score, I use to feel Brady would lead us to victory. Now, not as much anymore. The last few years he has struggled in the playoffs and I cannot get over losing two Super Bowls and having Eli outperform him. No he is not the best even if he wins a few more!!

Nominee for best first post of a brief tenure of the season. And the second was another corker. Obviously it never dawned on any of us that 4 was more than 3...

:welcome:

:ban?:

:trolls:

 

[RobertWeathers]

Tom Brady is not the greatest of all time. Joe Montana is. do you agree or disagree with this? Fact: Joe won 4. Fact: Brady won 3. Fact: 4 is one more than 3. I do not care about getting to more Super Bowls than Montana. I care about Wins. Also, people will remember two lost Super Bowls over NFC title games.

I think that you are a being a bit too harsh. Could Brady have played better in the two SB losses? Sure. We can go on and on how JM threw 3 picks vs WAS in the 1983 NFCCG, or played awful in 1985, 1986 and 1987 playoffs but it's irrelevent. Same goes for TB in a few playoff games.

TB has proven that hes clutch in the playoffs and SBs so it's not like hes a choke artist. He simply didn't play his best vs strong pass rushes. We can argue all day that JM NEVER faced a pass rush in a SB that TB did.

The fact that posters are splitting hairs over these two is clear that there is no right answer and that they are a cut above the rest of the field.

 

[1960Pats]

Well most people of course differentiate between the modern era QB and the older guys you cite, Starr (like Unitas) spans the 2 eras.

I would observe that now the game is much more about the pass than in the early era of the NFL, the team Starr played for was based on the sweep not passing to win football games.

And of course the defenses these played faced were incredible simple by today's standards. No sub packages everyone played a 4-3 with man coverage every week.

Even Starr with the Lombardi dynasty Packers could come close to Brady's winning percentage in the regular season. Of course for 3 of Starr's championships he only had to win 1 game not 3 playoff games.

Different eras very hard to compare.

The biggest factor now is the amount of playoff games that you have to win to get credited with a title. That is huge.

But I don't agree that free agency makes it harder. A team can turn things around a lot quicker now by adding pieces to the puzzle. The 2001 Pats were a great example.

The days of gradually building teams like Chuck Noll did in the 70's could be over, although the Pats seem to be heading in that direction.