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If Belichicks drafts are such "failures"..


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re: If Belichicks drafts are such "failures"..

Nice reading comprehension.



Check mate.

Just FYI, you usually say checkmate when you win, not when you lose. For future reference.
 
re: If Belichicks drafts are such "failures"..

I remember all the haters when we picked nate in the first.
 
re: If Belichicks drafts are such "failures"..

tom brady.

Exactly.

Bill Belichick can draft dwarfs and elves, and they'd still win 10 games.

Belichick needs to hand the draft over to someone else.

Bottom line he's a real hit or miss with the draft. He misses on a lot.


That said, I actually like what they did this year. But its all moot at this point until we see them on the field.
 
re: If Belichicks drafts are such "failures"..

Just out of curiosity. What teams have drafted better than the pats the past 10 years?

Answer: New York Jets, naturally...:rolleyes:
 
re: If Belichicks drafts are such "failures"..

Whether it is free agency or the draft there is a common theme that runs amongst almost all of the criticisms these people have of Belichick's decisions, and that is that if he doesn't take the biggest names and flashiest most publicized players then he has failed. Free agency is a bust because he didn't give up their first round pick and 65 million for Percy Harvin or Victor cruz, or give Mike Wallace twice as much money as he has earned. And when he has "failed" in the draft it is because he took Aaron Dobson and Josh Boyce to address WR instead of just taking Justin Hunter, or because he didn't take Damontre Moore but chose the less heralded Jamie Collins instead. These guys honestly believe that their mel Kiper informed minds know more about these prospects and how they will fit on this team because of some cliff notes and a few You Tube highlights than the Patriots entire scouting staff and the valuations placed on prospects by Caserio and Belichick after months and months of dissecting them. Apparently they believe that watching Brad Pitt in Moneyball makes them more qualified to run a pro franchise than those who actually spend decades working their way up to those positions. in terms of arrogance and hubris it would be very hard to top the displays we see of it in this very forum by those who believe that looking at draft Countdown somehow gives them unique insight into the NFL Draft.


A realistic look at this offseason to this point would demonstrate that the Patriots have had a really good one, especially in comparison to their competition, and it would be really really difficult to argue facts and demonstrate otherwise.
 
re: If Belichicks drafts are such "failures"..

Well that's it in a nutshell. Tom Brady hides many problems and the homers can't lose because the fallback position is the draft is such a crapshoot. It's frustrating when the consensus values our picks at much later rounds. At the minimum it appears we could have waited until later rounds to draft some of these guys.

Well, Belichick should get some credit for Brady because he drafted him. Also, EVERY team hits and misses on draft picks. However, BB hits more than he misses.
 
re: If Belichicks drafts are such "failures"..

Elite QBs cover for a lot of problems. That being said, the Patriots have drafted well in many of the BB years. However, the obvious flip side to the O.P.'s post is:

If BB's such a great coach, Brady's such a great QB and the drafts have all been so great, why hasn't the team won a SB since 2004?

When people start playing the "If/Why" game, it's usually a really bad idea.

:ugh:

I know maybe it is because Brady isn't a great QB...afterall he hasn't won a superbowl in 8 years. In fact Belichick is a terrible coach. Kraft is a terrible owner. Gronk sucks. Wilfork sucks. The stadium even stinks because none of them have won a superbowl in the last 8 years.
 
re: If Belichicks drafts are such "failures"..

:ugh:

I know maybe it is because Brady isn't a great QB...afterall he hasn't won a superbowl in 8 years. In fact Belichick is a terrible coach. Kraft is a terrible owner. Gronk sucks. Wilfork sucks. The stadium even stinks because none of them have won a superbowl in the last 8 years.

Really lame counters are always appreciated, because they serve to buttress my points.

Thanks! :thumb:
 
re: If Belichicks drafts are such "failures"..

I for one am never going to forgive Belichick for drafting so poorly that David Tyree made that catch and Brady had that safety. Frigging Belichik, that never would have happened if he had taken JaMaarcus Russell.
 
re: If Belichicks drafts are such "failures"..

Really lame counters are always appreciated, because they serve to buttress my points.

Thanks! :thumb:

How ironic that you find my ludicrous notion that Brady sucks because he hasn't won a superbowl in the last 8 years to be a lame argument. Now you know how the rest of us felt after reading your post.
 
re: If Belichicks drafts are such "failures"..

This isn't exclusive to just the Patriots drafts, but I'm not sure how people who expect the team to hit on every draft pick every year can label other people "homers."
 
re: If Belichicks drafts are such "failures"..

Ah a whole thread where I can copy and paste a response to the homers in another thread and it makes perfect sense still!

I think he's the best coach bar none in the NFL, but leaves much to be desired as a GM. I also truly believe he has to show people he's the smartest and that is why you get WTF picks like Tavon Wilson and Duron Harmon.

A lot of the moves BB has made have been awful the last few years and it is the greatness of Tom Brady covering up for the mistakes. And then posters here have the audacity to say Brady sucks when we lose in the playoffs.

Brady's in his mid 30s he's going to have a bad game in the playoffs after carrying a band of losers on defense for 16 games every single year and having to be pin point accurate passing to smurf wide outs and good tight ends that all operate in the middle of the field.

Brady is asked to do way too much and is given way too little help, when he retires people will realize that the teams 2010 on would have been absolute **** without him.

So for all the people on here who bash anyone that questions BB by saying "LOL YA WE SUCK AND GO 2-14 EVERY YEAR!!" you should realize that if Tom Brady wasn't covering up for all the holes the actual result wouldn't be too far from 2-14. (In before "but, but 2008 but, but Matt Cassel!!", that was the easiest schedule ever and the team got ***** slapped by almost every good team they played that year. Also they were worse by 7 wins ) Also don't even try the garbage about how they were the 2nd or 3rd team ever to go 11-5 and not make the playoffs. They didn't make it, end of story. Just like they didn't win the Super Bowl in 2011 or last year stop living in your delusional hypothetical worlds where everything is ok because if Gronk was healthy we'd be 2x champs. Get real the team has holes and is filling them with hot garbage.

If the moves are so awful than what's your excuse for the fact that no one has drafted more Pro Bowlers than BB since '00? You are talking out your *** and spewing nonsense.
 
re: If Belichicks drafts are such "failures"..

I also truly believe he has to show people he's the smartest and that is why you get WTF picks like Tavon Wilson and Duron Harmon.

If his goal is to grow his own legend, why would he reach for the players? Surely it's more impressive to pick a player no one is heard of, you know, late in the draft. No matter how *****y and whiny you are, you can't really claim Belichick is stupid, can you?

Also, it's intellectually dishonest to cherry pick the parameters when analyzing Belichick the GM, or attribute successes to Brady/coaching and failures to the GM. The Pats have been competitive for well over a decade now, and that strongly implies they've managed their roster exceptionally well with regard to the competition.

Maybe if you didn't have your panties in a bunch, you could actually make an argument on Belichick being a mediocre talent evaluator. And back that up with actual analysis. But I'm not holding my breath.

filling them with hot garbage.

So which of these is your grand theory? Feel free to elaborate on your choice:

A: Belichick is intentionally acquiring bad players.
B: No one in the organization can evaluate players.
C: Belichick cannot evaluate players and is overriding player personnel who can. Kraft is too demented/stupid/scared to say anything, even though even posters on patsfans.com can see the players are garbage.
 
re: If Belichicks drafts are such "failures"..

They went through a stretch from 2006-2009 where their drafts were subpar (along with 2000 and 2001).

In 2001, we got Richard Seymour & Matt Light.

In 2000, we got Tom Brady and...Bill Belichick.

Speaking for myself, I'd call those Hauls "Above Average". ;)

2001 shouldn't be in that list and Brady makes up for all the other picks in 2000 were crap, I would put 2000 on that list.

You do realize that Coach Bill cost us that 1st Rounder...right?? :rolleyes:

You don't consider Bill Belichick & Tom Brady a good Haul for the 2000 Draft??
spock.gif


I suspect you're in the minority on that one. ;)
 
re: If Belichicks drafts are such "failures"..

2007 we got Wes Welker and Randy moss, and that's as good a use of picks as it gets. I would never argue that the Patriots are flawless in their drafting but i would argue that they have a system that researches every draft thoroughly, they arrive at an approach for that draft and then follow it through that draft. It usually results in a strong draft and it absolutely results in a team that is in contention each and every year, and they were actually able to completely rebuild their roster not once but several times over during this era without ever dropping off and without having to overspend in free agency to make up for gaping holes. So if the draft is supposed to be about team building and results on the field then there simply is no better team in the league at it regardless of what the critics want to say. They can piss and moan and b.tch and whine endlessly about who they should have taken and how much better they could have done but the results on the field are the final report card for the Patriots drafting, and given that they can only get an A+ for the Belichick era.



Like everyone else i wanted them to take a Jesse Williams or D'rick Rodgers or Quinton Patton etc... but the truth is that i am only taking a superficial look at a limited number of prospects and don't have anywhere near the information they do so in truth I really have NOTHING to go on other than the draft sites and magazines, which only give cliff notes, and trying to suggest that I or anyone else here knows better is really complete crap. That doesn't mean we can't say we wanted so and so as we obviously can, but actually trying to say you know better is idiocy. The truth is that team boards are radically different than Kiper's etc..., and that's why Nassib and Barkley are still sitiing there when the Ravens were taking Brandon Williams and the Patriots a safety from Rutgers who most didn't know much about, and the Dolphins and other teams were doing exactly the same. Once you get past the first round teams draft boards really start to vary greatly and that is always going to make fans nuts, because we are all following the herd that comes from the consensus of the draft sites and magazines.

Once again i will go into today hoping they take the names i know and like with their next pick, but like their last pick last night i will be braced for them to take someone i know nothing about, however that doesn't mean they made a bad pick, it only means that i don't know the draft as well as they do.

One lat point, for years Mike Brown of the Bengals refused to invest heavily in team scouting and instead went with the draft experts to inform his drafting, and the result was that they sucked, so don't put much stock in the general consensus because following it ends up with a team being Mike brown's Bengals or Matt Millen's lions, who routinely took the highly touted players but always ended up at the bottom of the standings.

1 ~ You make some strong Points about the foolishness of those who don't do any substantial Work in researching the Draft, yet presume to Second Guess Coach Bill.

2 ~ But you go far too far in presuming that all of us fail to do our homework, and thus rely on morons like Kiper...Kiper is a Reporter who's useful only in passing on Information from those who have a clue what's going on ~ which he himself does not ~ but only a freaking IDIOT looks to Mel Kiper for Insight & Guidance.

3 ~ I, for one, research intensively, and while I admire and even worship Coach Bill, I sure as Hell have earned the right to criticize'm. Sometimes I'm right, sometimes I'm wrong. :cool:
 
re: If Belichicks drafts are such "failures"..

Triumph has massive tattoo of Mel Kiper's head covering his entire back.

I shudder to think how you may've come by that information. :eek:
 
re: If Belichicks drafts are such "failures"..

Obviously Belichick is terrible at drafting because all his players aren't hall of famers.


No but seriously. You can't sit here and tell me the Pats are average drafters. Why don't you whiny little girls wait until you actually see the players on the field before grading their draft and calling it a failure.
 
re: If Belichicks drafts are such "failures"..

Why don't you whiny little girls wait until you actually see the players on the field before grading their draft and calling it a failure.

Yeah, you should probably take something for that. :)
 
re: If Belichicks drafts are such "failures"..

Then explain
11-5
9-7
14-2
14-2
10-6
12-4
16-0
11-5
10-6
14-2
13-3
12-4

First of all, I agree with your (unstated) premise that the Pats have actually been very good at drafting. Because they have been. One of the very best in the league, in fact, all the whining to the contrary.

But second, and more to your point, it is very possible to not be particularly good at drafting if you are very good at acquiring talent in other ways - trades, free agents, UDFAs. Combine a few huge hits (like, say, at a HOF quarterback) with some very smart FA signings, and you have the possibility of having a really good team, especially if you have superior coaching, which the Patriots have.

More than one way to skin a cat, in other words.
 
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