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If Belichicks drafts are such "failures"..

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by Lifer, Apr 27, 2013.

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  1. Lifer

    Lifer Banned

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    Then explain
    11-5
    9-7
    14-2
    14-2
    10-6
    12-4
    16-0
    11-5
    10-6
    14-2
    13-3
    12-4
     
  2. cstjohn17

    cstjohn17 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #54 Jersey

    re: If Belichicks drafts are such "failures"..

    The drafts are not failures then tend to be average, if you add a superior coach and QB you have a recipe for a lot of regular season wins.

    Hello New England Braves.

    They need some outside opinion, how the hell could Duron Harmon be the pick at 91? They had to know he would be there in round 4 or even at the end of the draft.

    It takes play makers to win games, in most cases a quarter (star player) is worth more than 5 nickels.

    Rant over, Go Pats. Almost guaranteed a another AFC East (Norris) Trophy, lets see what they can do in the clutch.
     
  3. strngplyr

    strngplyr In the Starting Line-Up

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    re: If Belichicks drafts are such "failures"..

    I'm not a person who thinks all of our drafts are awful, but for a very long time we relied quite heavily on veteran "rentals" through free agency, moreso than building through the draft.

    In recent seasons I think a larger core of our starting units have been homegrown and there hasn't really been a drop off.

    BB plays a game that most people don't like or agree with, but it yields some of the most consistent results in the NFL. I can't really argue with it.

    It's frustrating not winning the Super Bowl every year, but nobody does, and nobody is really as consistently close to the big game as we are, even since our dynasty ended we've still probably been the best team in football since 2004, the Giants and Steelers have won a pair of Super Bowls since then but you can't tell me that as a whole they've been better than us, we have only had one truly mediocre season and that was 2009, they are both mediocre every other season and might be trending heavily downward at the moment while we're in a holding pattern.
     
  4. DarrylS

    DarrylS PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    re: If Belichicks drafts are such "failures"..

    If you did a longitudinal study of all NFL Team Drafts, we are above average.. despite the doom and gloom parade who thinks otherwise.

    The draft is a crapshoot, it is not like they picked some of these guys because of a nebulous reason just to piss off fans..

    The last three drafts for this team are way above average.. would suspect the trend will continue..

    They did not pick the Rutgers guys because of some man love for Schiano or because Stephen knew them...

    They did not pick the Marshall guy because of Troy or Randy Moss..

    They picked who they picked, because they think they will make the team better..
     
  5. Triumph

    Triumph Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    re: If Belichicks drafts are such "failures"..

    [​IMG]
     
  6. Lifer

    Lifer Banned

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    re: If Belichicks drafts are such "failures"..

    All in all a very good post but i have to say that its a testament to what the Patriots have been that people consider 10-6 "Mediocre" and 12-4 a "holding pattern". Growing up i would have died to see a 10-6 season with a home playoff game. Hosting an AFC Championship Game would have been beyond belief. We have become quite spoiled here.
     
  7. DarrylS

    DarrylS PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    re: If Belichicks drafts are such "failures"..

    Agree completely, there is no other team in the past 10 years who have come close to matching our success..

    Perhaps some time travel into the early 90's would be beneficial..
     
  8. Sparetire

    Sparetire Third String But Playing on Special Teams

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    re: If Belichicks drafts are such "failures"..

    tom brady.
     
  9. strngplyr

    strngplyr In the Starting Line-Up

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    re: If Belichicks drafts are such "failures"..

    To be fair, our 10-6 in 2009 is a pretty overrated number, at least in my opinion, I think we won 10 games because we couldn't find ways to lose them, but we lost to every team that was actually good that season. We weren't our usual dominant team that season.

    I consider 12-4 a "holding pattern" because, well, for THIS team, it is. We're 12-4 good or better every year, so it is a holding pattern in a sense, no reason to think of it in a negative way, it was just my way of saying we didn't get worse because fans don't like who we've drafted so far (I might have misunderstood what you mean't when you quoted me there, so appologies if I did).
     
  10. Shockt327

    Shockt327 Rotational Player and Threatening Starter's Job

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    re: If Belichicks drafts are such "failures"..

    Yeah, anyone who thinks NE cannot draft is simply out to lunch....


    2000-2012 Patriots Draft Analysis :patriots Coverage With John Vampatella

    This next list shows each team’s number of player-years as an All-Pro 1st teamer, and years as a Pro Bowler.

    Rank – Team – All-Pro Seasons – Pro Bowl Seasons – TOT AP+PB

    NE – 12 – 44 – 56
    SF – 14 – 30 – 44
    Bal – 11 – 33 – 44
    SD – 9 – 34 – 43
    Dal – 8 – 34 – 42
    Chi – 10 – 29 – 39
    Car – 9 – 27 – 36
    NYJ – 8 – 26 – 34
    Ind – 7 – 26 – 33
    Ari – 3 – 30 – 33
    Sea – 10 – 22 – 32
    Pit – 5 – 26 – 31
    Cin – 5 – 25 – 30
    NYG – 5 – 24 – 29
    Min – 9 – 19 – 28
    KC – 8 – 19 – 27
    NO – 6 – 21 – 27
    Den – 6 – 20 – 26
    Hou – 6 – 19 – 25
    GB – 2 – 23 – 25
    Atl – 1 – 20 – 21
    Oak – 8 – 12 – 20
    Ten – 6 – 13 – 19
    Phi – 4 – 15 – 19
    Was – 0 – 19 – 19
    Cle – 3 – 11 – 14
    Buf – 1 – 13 – 14
    Jax – 2 – 11 – 13
    Det – 3 – 9 – 12
    Mia – 1 – 9 – 10
    StL – 0 – 3 – 3
    TB – 0 – 3 – 3
     
  11. goheels22002

    goheels22002 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    re: If Belichicks drafts are such "failures"..

    The draft is a component of the success of the Patriots, but not the reason for the consistent success, from a personnel standpoint. Managing the cap, letting veterans go when they're no longer able to do the job or fit the system, making mid-season personnel moves, benching guys who can't get the system no matter their prominence or salary, listening to the veterans, bringing in young coaches, teaching players how to play at the NFL level and adapting as the game changes are all factors.
     
  12. Triumph

    Triumph Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    re: If Belichicks drafts are such "failures"..

    Tom Brady hides a lot of warts on Belichicks drafting with winning seasons.

    You see it when Brady has a bad game and cant carry the team that day. Youve seen it in both Super Bowl losses when Brady drove the Pats down for lead with minutes remaining, but the pass defense couldnt stop a nose bleed.

    You will never convince the HOMERS, but BB the GM has hurt BB the HC. Im tired of hearing about "value" when the guy you traded down for never amounts to sh%t and is now working at Burger King. On what planet is that value?

    Then the HOMERS will make excuses like "the draft is a crapshoot" BS. Other teams find better players after the player NE has chosen time and time again. The Packers found Greg Jennings after NE selected Chad Jackson. NE 83 Brandon Tate, PITT 84 Mike Wallace. NE 62 Wheatley NE 129 Wilhite KC 140 Brandon Carr.

    Crapshoot my arse. Luck has nothing to do with it. Youre in the business of drafting NFL talent and thats what youre paid big money to do.

    Then the HOMERS will say "Well, those teams didnt have a winning record and make the playoffs" Hey arsehole, its what Mike Wallace in lieu of Brandon Tate could have done for this team. Its what Brandon Carr could have brought to this team playing with a HOF QB and the fact that NE could have used draft picks wasted trying to find a CB on other needs.
     
  13. betterthanthealternative

    betterthanthealternative In the Starting Line-Up

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    re: If Belichicks drafts are such "failures"..

    For a fan, the appropriate purpose of the draft is to provide a blast of optimism, an emotional lift, a ray of sunshine and hope. The proper relationship to the draft is to be overly positive about the capabilities of the players drafted by your team. It is what being a fan is all about - having a positive emotional relationship to something you can't control or influence, which isn't central to your life, and simply provides a distracting bit of entertainment.

    When rooting for a team becomes too central to a fan's life, plays too large a role in determining that person's happiness and use of time, then the ability to use the draft (and the games) to create some serotonin is lost. And then suddenly those fans feel the need for extreme analysis of the draft, the coach, the players, the strategy, etc.

    That's when terms like "failure" show up in conversations about remarkably successful teams.
     
  14. Koma

    Koma Third String But Playing on Special Teams

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    re: If Belichicks drafts are such "failures"..

    If you're not employed by an NFL team, then something is very very wrong.
     
  15. scout

    scout Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

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    re: If Belichicks drafts are such "failures"..

    Here's the problem pointing out "could have had" but we chose "xxx" instead is when we did choose "xxx" and other teams passed and chose "xxx" and the player turns out great The proof is the Patriots roster. The second issue with people ranting about BB's drafting, no one ever remembers the bust or insignificant player selected by the fan, but the real player drafted and by who is forever.
     
  16. BSR

    BSR In the Starting Line-Up

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    re: If Belichicks drafts are such "failures"..

    Most people aren't very bright. They have a hard time seeing the big picture and rarely have an ability to put things in context. This is especially true with any areas that aren't black and white, right or wrong. They have a particularly hard time with failure rate. The only suggestion I have is to ignore the worst of these individuals. They are a waste of your time.
     
  17. Rob0729

    Rob0729 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    re: If Belichicks drafts are such "failures"..

    Overall, the Pats draft well. They went through a stretch from 2006-2009 where their drafts were subpar (along with 2000 and 2001). But overall their drafts have been above average to spectacular.

    I don't know if there is a team who draft better from 2010-2012 with no one drafting better in 2010.
     
  18. Rob0729

    Rob0729 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    re: If Belichicks drafts are such "failures"..

    And you are the perfect counter balance to the "homers". You go so far overboard the other way, you are just or more ridiculous than the people you mock.

    You successfully tried to spin a small sample size of bad drafts (2006-2009) into a portrayal of the Patriots drafting history. You seem to focus on Chad Jackson, Brandon Tate, and Wilhite, but don't want mention Gronk, Spikes, Hernandez, Vollmer, Solder, etc. who were all hits over the last three drafts.

    But you will probably argue the last three drafts don't count since Brady makes mediocre guys like Gronk look like studs.

    You really shouldn't cast stones when you are doing the exact same things you are accusing others of just from a completely different view point. Belichick has had more success drafts than failures. Every team has bad drafts.
     
  19. SONS_OF_BELICHICK

    SONS_OF_BELICHICK Third String But Playing on Special Teams

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    re: If Belichicks drafts are such "failures"..

    For some reason people think that every teams player ranking is the same. The only reason BB chooses a player is because they fill a need and have them rated there or higher. Another team could have rated him higher or lower. Who knows. People who complain that he was rated later in the draft are only using someone elses evaluation. Those are the same people who said ...Sebastion Volmer who ...in the 2nd round. How did that turn out? BB knows what he wants and what his team needs.
     
  20. cmasspatsfan

    cmasspatsfan In the Starting Line-Up

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    re: If Belichicks drafts are such "failures"..

    You Mean the Tom Brady BB drafted? Cant have it both ways dude
     
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