If Belichicks drafts are such "failures"..

[Ivan]

re: If Belichicks drafts are such "failures"..

I find it difficult to believe people haven't cottoned on to this yet. There is no one who has been more consistently wrong on any topic than Triumph.

Simply not true, triumph can take a draft magazine from 2010 and go back through it and make exceptional draft choices in 2013 for that 2010 draft. He's a fricking savant.

 

[skspikex2]

re: If Belichicks drafts are such "failures"..

You see it when Brady has a bad game and cant carry the team that day. Youve seen it in both Super Bowl losses when Brady drove the Pats down for lead with minutes remaining, but the pass defense couldnt stop a nose bleed.

You will never convince the HOMERS, but BB the GM has hurt BB the HC. Im tired of hearing about "value" when the guy you traded down for never amounts to sh%t and is now working at Burger King. On what planet is that value?

Then the HOMERS will make excuses like "the draft is a crapshoot" BS. Other teams find better players after the player NE has chosen time and time again. The Packers found Greg Jennings after NE selected Chad Jackson. NE 83 Brandon Tate, PITT 84 Mike Wallace. NE 62 Wheatley NE 129 Wilhite KC 140 Brandon Carr.

A miracle helmet catch is purely luck. A Welker drop couldn't seal it.

I remember when Chad Jackson was drafted, I was trilled by his talent. All the analysts said it was a great pick, most patriots fans love the pick.
Who would know that it didn't pan out?
Mike Wallace? Just because he work out well in Pittsburgh doesn't mean he would work out in NE. Brady can't dance in the pocket for 10 seconds like Rapingburger.

 

[Lifer]

re: If Belichicks drafts are such "failures"..

Elite QBs cover for a lot of problems. That being said, the Patriots have drafted well in many of the BB years. However, the obvious flip side to the O.P.'s post is:

If BB's such a great coach, Brady's such a great QB and the drafts have all been so great, why hasn't the team won a SB since 2004?

When people start playing the "If/Why" game, it's usually a really bad idea.

2 freak of nature catches. Thats the breaks of the game. It wasnt a "drafting failure" that kept the Patriots from having 5 Championships. People act like the 2007 and 2011 Super Bowl seasons didnt happen and are meaningless. Such is the downside of success. Staubach and Landry "only" won 2 Super Bowls so i guess they were failures too.

 

[Shockt327]

re: If Belichicks drafts are such "failures"..

That being said, the Patriots have drafted well in many of the BB years.

Not to harp on you, but NE has drafted better than anyone in the BB years. More Pro Bowlers than any other team....even if you take away Brady; that's unreal.

 

[jmt57]

re: If Belichicks drafts are such "failures"..

Tom Brady hides a lot of warts on Belichicks drafting with winning seasons.

You see it when Brady has a bad game and cant carry the team that day. Youve seen it in both Super Bowl losses when Brady drove the Pats down for lead with minutes remaining, but the pass defense couldnt stop a nose bleed.

You will never convince the HOMERS, but BB the GM has hurt BB the HC. Im tired of hearing about "value" when the guy you traded down for never amounts to sh%t and is now working at Burger King. On what planet is that value?

Then the HOMERS will make excuses like "the draft is a crapshoot" BS. Other teams find better players after the player NE has chosen time and time again. The Packers found Greg Jennings after NE selected Chad Jackson. NE 83 Brandon Tate, PITT 84 Mike Wallace. NE 62 Wheatley NE 129 Wilhite KC 140 Brandon Carr.

Crapshoot my arse. Luck has nothing to do with it. Youre in the business of drafting NFL talent and thats what youre paid big money to do.

Then the HOMERS will say "Well, those teams didnt have a winning record and make the playoffs" Hey arsehole, its what Mike Wallace in lieu of Brandon Tate could have done for this team. Its what Brandon Carr could have brought to this team playing with a HOF QB and the fact that NE could have used draft picks wasted trying to find a CB on other needs.

The hole in the oft-repeated "could'a had this guy" argument is that it implies that the expectation is that every draft pick should be perfect. Why is that?

We don't expect a team to win 100% of their games.

We don't expect a quarterback to complete 100% of his passes.

We don't expect an offense to score on 100% of their drives, or a defense to force a three and out 100% of the time they are on the field.

Yet for some reason a vocal segment of fans expect the team that they root for to be 100% perfect with every player evaluation and draft decision. Why is that?



By the way, for each example you made I can easily come up with other decisions that those very same team made did not work out. The Packers (who were so sold on Jennings that they passed on him twice in that very same draft) drafted another WR at nearly the same spot just the previous year: Terrence Murphy was drafted 58th and finished his brief NFL career with all of 5 receptions. Other early picks by the Packers in recent years include Justin Harrell at #16, and 2nd round picks Brian Brohm, Patrick Lee and Mike Neal - none of whom have ever been starters in the NFL.

If every early pick is supposed to be a hit, then how does one explain these misses by one of the NFL's premier teams in terms of player evaluations, scouting, and draft decisions?

 

[Keyser Söze]

re: If Belichicks drafts are such "failures"..

Then explain
11-5
9-7
14-2
14-2
10-6
12-4
16-0
11-5
10-6
14-2
13-3
12-4

1. Tom Brady
2. He's a fantastic coach

 

[Deus Irae]

re: If Belichicks drafts are such "failures"..

A miracle helmet catch is purely luck. A Welker drop couldn't seal it.

I remember when Chad Jackson was drafted, I was trilled by his talent. All the analysts said it was a great pick, most patriots fans love the pick.
Who would know that it didn't pan out?
Mike Wallace? Just because he work out well in Pittsburgh doesn't mean he would work out in NE. Brady can't dance in the pocket for 10 seconds like Rapingburger.

In the context of the discussion, it is what it is. 0 SB wins since 2004 with TB, BB and the drafting. The excuses are just that.

 

[kudzif]

re: If Belichicks drafts are such "failures"..

If you have a great QB and good coach you will always win consistently. Show me a team that has had that combo and failed to win consistently. Where the bad drafts show up and cost you is in the playoffs

 

[Brady2Moss]

re: If Belichicks drafts are such "failures"..

Ah a whole thread where I can copy and paste a response to the homers in another thread and it makes perfect sense still!

I think he's the best coach bar none in the NFL, but leaves much to be desired as a GM. I also truly believe he has to show people he's the smartest and that is why you get WTF picks like Tavon Wilson and Duron Harmon.

A lot of the moves BB has made have been awful the last few years and it is the greatness of Tom Brady covering up for the mistakes. And then posters here have the audacity to say Brady sucks when we lose in the playoffs.

Brady's in his mid 30s he's going to have a bad game in the playoffs after carrying a band of losers on defense for 16 games every single year and having to be pin point accurate passing to smurf wide outs and good tight ends that all operate in the middle of the field.

Brady is asked to do way too much and is given way too little help, when he retires people will realize that the teams 2010 on would have been absolute **** without him.

So for all the people on here who bash anyone that questions BB by saying "LOL YA WE SUCK AND GO 2-14 EVERY YEAR!!" you should realize that if Tom Brady wasn't covering up for all the holes the actual result wouldn't be too far from 2-14. (In before "but, but 2008 but, but Matt Cassel!!", that was the easiest schedule ever and the team got ***** slapped by almost every good team they played that year. Also they were worse by 7 wins ) Also don't even try the garbage about how they were the 2nd or 3rd team ever to go 11-5 and not make the playoffs. They didn't make it, end of story. Just like they didn't win the Super Bowl in 2011 or last year stop living in your delusional hypothetical worlds where everything is ok because if Gronk was healthy we'd be 2x champs. Get real the team has holes and is filling them with hot garbage.

 

[grux]

re: If Belichicks drafts are such "failures"..

The drafts are not failures then tend to be average, if you add a superior coach and QB you have a recipe for a lot of regular season wins.

Hello New England Braves.

They need some outside opinion, how the hell could Duron Harmon be the pick at 91? They had to know he would be there in round 4 or even at the end of the draft.

It takes play makers to win games, in most cases a quarter (star player) is worth more than 5 nickels.

Rant over, Go Pats. Almost guaranteed a another AFC East (Norris) Trophy, lets see what they can do in the clutch.

Just out of curiosity. What teams have drafted better than the pats the past 10 years?

 

[grux]

re: If Belichicks drafts are such "failures"..

Ah a whole thread where I can copy and paste a response to the homers in another thread and it makes perfect sense still!

I think he's the best coach bar none in the NFL, but leaves much to be desired as a GM. I also truly believe he has to show people he's the smartest and that is why you get WTF picks like Tavon Wilson and Duron Harmon.

A lot of the moves BB has made have been awful the last few years and it is the greatness of Tom Brady covering up for the mistakes. And then posters here have the audacity to say Brady sucks when we lose in the playoffs.

Brady's in his mid 30s he's going to have a bad game in the playoffs after carrying a band of losers on defense for 16 games every single year and having to be pin point accurate passing to smurf wide outs and good tight ends that all operate in the middle of the field.

Brady is asked to do way too much and is given way too little help, when he retires people will realize that the teams 2010 on would have been absolute **** without him.

So for all the people on here who bash anyone that questions BB by saying "LOL YA WE SUCK AND GO 2-14 EVERY YEAR!!" you should realize that if Tom Brady wasn't covering up for all the holes the actual result wouldn't be too far from 2-14. (In before "but, but 2008 but, but Matt Cassel!!", that was the easiest schedule ever and the team got ***** slapped by almost every good team they played that year. Also they were worse by 7 wins ) Also don't even try the garbage about how they were the 2nd or 3rd team ever to go 11-5 and not make the playoffs. They didn't make it, end of story. Just like they didn't win the Super Bowl in 2011 or last year stop living in your delusional hypothetical worlds where everything is ok because if Gronk was healthy we'd be 2x champs. Get real the team has holes and is filling them with hot garbage.

Sorry I didn't read that you already talked about 2008. Whether you have an easy or hard schedule, yo u still have to win the games.

 

[Brady2Moss]

re: If Belichicks drafts are such "failures"..

Tom Brady hides a lot of warts on Belichicks drafting with winning seasons.

You see it when Brady has a bad game and cant carry the team that day. Youve seen it in both Super Bowl losses when Brady drove the Pats down for lead with minutes remaining, but the pass defense couldnt stop a nose bleed.

You will never convince the HOMERS, but BB the GM has hurt BB the HC. Im tired of hearing about "value" when the guy you traded down for never amounts to sh%t and is now working at Burger King. On what planet is that value?

Then the HOMERS will make excuses like "the draft is a crapshoot" BS. Other teams find better players after the player NE has chosen time and time again. The Packers found Greg Jennings after NE selected Chad Jackson. NE 83 Brandon Tate, PITT 84 Mike Wallace. NE 62 Wheatley NE 129 Wilhite KC 140 Brandon Carr.

Crapshoot my arse. Luck has nothing to do with it. Youre in the business of drafting NFL talent and thats what youre paid big money to do.

Then the HOMERS will say "Well, those teams didnt have a winning record and make the playoffs" Hey arsehole, its what Mike Wallace in lieu of Brandon Tate could have done for this team. Its what Brandon Carr could have brought to this team playing with a HOF QB and the fact that NE could have used draft picks wasted trying to find a CB on other needs.

Brother I had to unlike this post to like it again, it isn't about what OTHER teams do it is about what WE do. If you pull a redskins on this team this year and go balls out in free agency it won't lead to the Redskins results because they didn't have a HOF, GOAT QB when they splurged. If you trade up and get some impact players or just sit tight and draft the best guy on the board at number 29 it doesn't mean we lost "VALUE". All those busts we had in the 2nd-4th round imagine if they were good players. Screw "value" those value picks BUST more often than not under BB the GM

 

[Brady2Moss]

re: If Belichicks drafts are such "failures"..

The team did pretty good in 2008 without Brady. Just missed making the playoffs.

Nice reading comprehension.

(In before "but, but 2008 but, but Matt Cassel!!", that was the easiest schedule ever and the team got ***** slapped by almost every good team they played that year. Also they were worse by 7 wins ) Also don't even try the garbage about how they were the 2nd or 3rd team ever to go 11-5 and not make the playoffs. They didn't make it, end of story. Just like they didn't win the Super Bowl in 2011 or last year stop living in your delusional hypothetical worlds where everything is ok because if Gronk was healthy we'd be 2x champs. Get real the team has holes and is filling them with hot garbage.

Check mate.

 

[mb6592]

re: If Belichicks drafts are such "failures"..

Tom Brady hides a lot of warts on Belichicks drafting with winning seasons.

You will never convince the HOMERS, but BB the GM has hurt BB the HC. Im tired of hearing about "value" when the guy you traded down for never amounts to sh%t and is now working at Burger King. On what planet is that value?

Then the HOMERS will make excuses like "the draft is a crapshoot" BS.

Well that's it in a nutshell. Tom Brady hides many problems and the homers can't lose because the fallback position is the draft is such a crapshoot. It's frustrating when the consensus values our picks at much later rounds. At the minimum it appears we could have waited until later rounds to draft some of these guys.

 

[moosekill]

re: If Belichicks drafts are such "failures"..

Nice reading comprehension.



Check mate.

Ho humm, did someone make a silly pointless comment and then rip someone who disagreed, and congratulate himself.

What a surprise.

 

[moosekill]

re: If Belichicks drafts are such "failures"..

Well that's it in a nutshell. Tom Brady hides many problems and the homers can't lose because the fallback position is the draft is such a crapshoot. It's frustrating when the consensus values our picks at much later rounds. At the minimum it appears we could have waited until later rounds to draft some of these guys.

You are talking out of your butt. You have no clue what so ever if they could have or not. None of us do. All it takes is one team to like someone and they are gone. Just because Mel Kiper has them slated later is meaningless.

Would you like some cheese to go along with your wine?

 

[jmt57]

re: If Belichicks drafts are such "failures"..

I also truly believe he has to show people he's the smartest and that is why you get WTF picks like Tavon Wilson and Duron Harmon.

:ugh:



Usually it is strictly fans of other teams, and sports talk radio hosts that come up with the 'Belichick is egotistical and arrogant, that is why he (fill in the blank)' line.

Perhaps you can share with the rest of the class how you know this to be his sole motivation in his decision making?

 

[Ivan]

re: If Belichicks drafts are such "failures"..

Newsflash, this isn't basketball, one great player does not make any team. The Patriots are a great team because they have a great roster with a great QB and coach, and the coach is the one who has repeatedly built and rebuilt the roster around their HOF QB. The people talking sh.t about this and every other draft they have are doing so because they are so frigging stupid that they actually believe they know more about player personel and the draft than Belichick does, and they continue to spew their crap despite independent leaguewide analysis of the draft that rates the Patriots at the very top over the last 10 years. In short the people who routinely crap are their drafts are complete morons who really don't know what the hell they are talking about but really really really want to believe they do. Stick to Madden and fantasy football idiots, you don't know what you are talking about when it comes to the real thing

 

[grux]

re: If Belichicks drafts are such "failures"..

Nice reading comprehension.



Check mate.

I edited my previous post but it didn't change right away.

 

[Ivan]

re: If Belichicks drafts are such "failures"..

I edited my previous post.

It is pretty comical the B2M is using "checkmate" as a phrase because there is no way in hell he could actually understand how to play chess.