IF 4-3 becomes the base defense, I like it

[strngplyr]

All reports of the defense are that is is looking great, far ahead of the offense except for:

– OL Sebastian Vollmer is a beast. No surprise, but he’s tossing guys around. Twice, he shoved DE Eric Moore’s face in the dirt. C Dan Koppen also looks tough. And oddly, undrafted OT Corey Woods keeps catching my eye.

 

[jczxohn1]

Strong indicator for a 4-3, 1-gap defense:

AH's presser--his self-described role--"Just kill the quarterback"

his acceptance of his new position--"I don't have to worry now. I'm a New
England Patriot."

Sounds like BB has cut the ambiguity and 2-gapping Shanahan tried to put on him.

 

[ay-yo]

I was very skeptical about the switch to a 4-3 at first but there with the reports from training camp it can't be ignored anymore. I do believe the hole at 4-3 DE is bigger than the hole at 3-4 OLB so hopefully a quality 4-3 DE gets added to the roster.

Sounds like Mayo (Will ) and Spikes (MLB) are the 2 LB's most likely to start. Should be an interesting battle between Fletcher and Guyton for the Sam.

IMO the switch didn't reduce holes in the defense. We had 2 holes in the 3-4 (1 at DE and 1 at OLB) and now have 2 holes in the 4-3 (DE and Sam). What the switch could accomplished is getting more out of Wilfork and Haynesworth.

 

[strngplyr]

I was very skeptical about the switch to a 4-3 at first but there with the reports from training camp it can't be ignored anymore. I do believe the hole at 4-3 DE is bigger than the hole at 3-4 OLB so hopefully a quality 4-3 DE gets added to the roster.

Sounds like Mayo (Will ) and Spikes (MLB) are the 2 LB's most likely to start. Should be an interesting battle between Fletcher and Guyton for the Sam.

IMO the switch didn't reduce holes in the defense. We had 2 holes in the 3-4 (1 at DE and 1 at OLB) and now have 2 holes in the 4-3 (DE and Sam). What the switch could accomplished is getting more out of Wilfork and Haynesworth.

Even if it didn't fill holes, like you stated, it could get more out of certain players who are more comfortable in the system. Which, to me, sounds like an overall improvement.

 

[Ring 6]

While the Pats 4-3 in the past has been a 2-gap system, after Haynesworth's Washington performance, it would seem he's not going to be happy with a whole lot of 2-gap. After BB's conference with Shanahan, it's doubtful he would handle AH in the same manner.

Do you really believe that BB traded for a guy who quit on his team last year, and decided to abandon what he believes in and cater to the defense Haynesworth likes to play? You have to get out more.

IMO, he, like Ted Washington and Lawrence Taylor, is a force of nature and virtually uncoachable in traditional terms. BB coached both of those guys successfully.

You are putting a guy who gave up last year and who's team begged someone to take him in the class with possibly the best player in NFL history at their respective positions? And btw, how did BB abandon his philosophy for those players?

When asked if AH was one to whom football was important, he replied, "he wouldn't be here if it wasn't" or some such.
In truth, he was saying, "this is a guy who truly does whatever he wants to." His behavior off-field certainly points that way.

No in truth he was saying if football wasnt important to him he wouldnt be here. Somehow you took that to me he will tell BB to (Please be quiet - edited) and let Albert pick the D?

AJ, I see your defense of BB's 2-gap over the last 10 yrs as commendable,

Im not 'defending' anything. It doesnt need defensing. I am saying that all those people who think that you have to play aggressive one gap defense to succeed are blind to what is in front of them.

but I think changes are in the wind.

I know, and I disagree.

There was NO reason to cut Ty Warren otherwise. That was a player who graded out better than Sey on many occasions. VW bowed to him as the strongest player on the team.

What are you talking about?
If Warren was going to be a good 34 DE this year and we were switching to a 43, he would be a good 43 DE/DT and still here.
Listen to what you are saying Warren compares to Seymour and is stronger than Wilfork (?) and BB decided that it was better to abandon all his beliefs, trade for Albert Haynesworth, install the defense AH likes and get rid of Ty Warren, the stud. It makes no sense.

Coming in underweight was a h*** of a lot easier to fix than coming in overweight. You underestimate that move greatly. He, VW, and AH would have been the best 3-4, 2- gap D-line in Patriot history if AH was brought in to play Sey's old role.

If that were the case all 3 would be here playing the 34.

And, we haven't won a play-off game since Sey left.

And this applies to the discussion how?

BB is turning the page.

I will believe it when I see it. I certainly put more stock in 30 years of him having a consistent philopsohy than in you reading the tea leaves of why BB cut a guy who had a habit of staying away from the team and showed up out of shape.

 

[Ring 6]

i am not going to opine on what base defense the team should or should not use, because the coaching staff/personnel know more than any of us do about their players.

however, i have grown weary of seeing middling quarterbacks with tons of time to sit back in the pocket and throw 3rd down completion upon 3rd down completion on our defensive unit.

ergo, if a switch to a base 4-3 is the catalyst to improve our pass-rush and 3rd down defense, then i am all for it.

I think you will continue to see weak QBs do better than expected against us, while we win the game.
I think it is a deeply held philosophy of BB that if he plays a defense that puts the onus of beating us on a young, weak QB we won't lose often.
That means you take away other things, and any NFL QB can have some success if throws are there for them.
However, what invariably happens is as it gets late and they MUST rely on the QB and there is nothing else to need to take away, the QB fails.
For all the complaints on this board about making (fill in the sucky QB) look like a HOFer its interesting that we rarely lose those games.
I am all for allowing 400 passing yards to Cam Newton or Rex Grossman if the result is we win the game.

 

[strngplyr]

Do you really believe that BB traded for a guy who quit on his team last year, and decided to abandon what he believes in and cater to the defense Haynesworth likes to play? You have to get out more.

No in truth he was saying if football wasnt important to him he wouldnt be here. Somehow you took that to me he will tell BB to (Please be quiet - edited) and let Albert pick the D?

Im not 'defending' anything. It doesnt need defensing. I am saying that all those people who think that you have to play aggressive one gap defense to succeed are blind to what is in front of them.

I will believe it when I see it. I certainly put more stock in 30 years of him having a consistent philopsohy than in you reading the tea leaves of why BB cut a guy who had a habit of staying away from the team and showed up out of shape.

Maybe more than catering to Haynesworth he is tailoring his defense around what best suits the group of players he's been bringing in over the past few season.

All you do is preach about BB doing what he's believed in for the past 30 years ...do you know BB on a personal or coaching level? Have you considered the defenses he ran for the past 30 years (not even consistently at that) have been tailored around his core group of players?

He hardly even runs a 34 base anymore but you defend him running the system as opposed to a 43 because "its what he believes in".

We all trust BB will do what is best to win with the players he has. All signs this year point to a one-gapping 43 base from training camp, to player workouts, to players actually on the roster. Maybe in 2 years it will be back to a two-gapping 34 because those are the players he has available.

Take Belichick's balls out of your mouth for just one second and consider that you don't know as much about him as you like to think you do, just because he's done something one way for the majority of his career.

 

[Ring 6]

Maybe more than catering to Haynesworth he is tailoring his defense around what best suits the group of players he's been bringing in over the past few season.

Haynesworth wasnt here a week ago. Your theory is that he traded for Haynesworth and thereby abandoned all his philiosphies. I don't buy it.

All you do is preach about BB doing what he's believed in for the past 30 years...do you know BB on a personal or coaching level? Have you considered the defenses he ran for the past 30 years (not even consistently at that) have been tailored around his core group of players?

Every defense BB has ever coaches has been a 2gap concept. I don't know what you think is not consistent.
Is your argument that this is the first time in his career that he had players who are better 1 gap players and 30 years of 2 gap philosophy is a coincidence?

He hardly even runs a 34 base anymore but you defend him running the system as opposed to a 43 because "its what he believes in".

What are you talking about? The 34 has been the base for 8 years.

We all trust BB will do what is best to win with the players he has. All signs this year point to a one-gapping 43 base from training camp, to player workouts, to players actually on the roster. Maybe in 2 years it will be back to a two-gapping 34 because those are the players he has available.

No, all signs do not point to that. Ty Warren's parting shot made a suggestion of it. The fact that they are lining up in a 43 early in camp, LIKE THEY DO ALMOST EVERY YEAR, doesnt tell us a whole lot.
Hey, I wouldn't be terribly surprised if we played a 43 (frankly its the same personell lined up a little differently) but to suggest that BB would abandon his most basic defensive philosophy of 2 gap run defense is a radical concept that I have a hard time believing.

Take Belichick's balls out of your mouth for just one second/quote]
Nice. You must be so proud of yourself to make a comment like that because I disagree with you. I can't understand why I would have any interest in having a discussion with the immature tool who would post this.

and consider that you don't know as much about him as you like to think you do, just because he's done something one way for the majority of his career.

If what I know about him is that he has always played 2 gap run defense, and that is a fact, why would you say I don't know as much about him as I think? What have I claimed to know.

Dude, people are going to disagree with you about things. Lighten up, don't get all uppity about it, and while you are at it, an apology for that comment you made would be appropriate.

 

[Tunescribe]

Andy, what are you going to say if/when this defense goes to a true 4-3 pressure-blitzing defense? On the radio today (WEEI) that's what Tedy Bruschi said he's seeing.

 

[Ring 6]

Andy, what are you going to say if/when this defense goes to a true 4-3 pressure-blitzing defense? On the radio today (WEEI) that's what Tedy Bruschi said he's seeing.

I suppose if that were to happen, I would say I was wrong.
What will you say when they dont?
And to clarify, I have said all along that although the personell seems better suited to 34 than 43, there is not a very big difference (same personell, little bit different alignment) and I wouldn't be too surprised by the shift to a 43, but I see nothing in BBs history that would indicate he has any interest in abandoning the 2gap philosophy he has had at the center of his defensive philosophy his entire career.