Idle thoughts - The "penalty" edition

[NG Pats Fan]

We are 10-2

I am very happy

 

[patfanken]

The Gronk Edition.

1. I know he was frustrated but that was monumentally stupid and cheap.

2. I can see the argument for a game. I think the league hits him with two to keep him out of the Pittsburgh game and give them a better shot at taking out the Pats. If they give him more than that it's another obvious case of anti-Patriots bias.

3. I hope Hogan can go against Miami.

4. Although his reaction was bush league I get his frustration. The last two years there's rules for Gronk and rules for the rest of the league. They have to tackle him to get a flag and if he fights back at all yellow goes flying.

5. Allen has certainly proved himself blocking but last year they had Bennett when Gronk went down. Without that duel thread it will be tough sledding.

6. The run game will suffer without him. He has been a beast and when talking about the best TE it's so overlooked.

7. I love Rodney Harrison and his career here but him acting disappointed in Gronk give me an F'in break. Go watch just your hit on Trent Green you hypocrite.

8. I'm not making light when I say I fear for Gronk's knees when they play the Bills next. Honestly the Pats should request he's out for that game if the suspension is only a game. I think the Bills would be fine with it. I really worry about vigalante justice.

9. I don't know why Josh kept going away from the double back protect set. That was stopping the Bills from stunting and abusing the interior line. You better believe teams took note of that.

10. I said it a few weeks ago but the only team in the AFC that scares me is Baltimore. The team with the best shot of knocking them out of the playoffs is the, gulp, Bengals. Ya but put money in that stock.

PLEASE - Given the choice, I'd vote to play Baltimore every game for the next 4. Look at who they've been playing with that so called great defense. They haven't played a real team in weeks. Lets see what they do next week against the Steelers. And while I'd love to see them beat Pittsburgh, I still wouldn't fear them as a playoff opponent. Flacco for the last 2 years has been nothing but Blake Bortles who had a good playoff run and made a lot of money in a contract year.

 

[everlong]

PLEASE - Given the choice, I'd vote to play Baltimore every game for the next 4. Look at who they've been playing with that so called great defense. They haven't played a real team in weeks. Lets see what they do next week against the Steelers. And while I'd love to see them beat Pittsburgh, I still wouldn't fear them as a playoff opponent. Flacco for the last 2 years has been nothing but Blake Bortles who had a good playoff run and made a lot of money in a contract year.

Flacco is that guy who for whatever reason has a horseshoe up his ass when he plays the Patriots. I do agree their SOV sucks. I think we all heard these same arguments in 2014 and they took us right to the end. The fact is we've dominated the Steelers and although the record vs the Flaco/Harbaugh led Ravens is pretty good with one exception is alway a dog fight. Whereas we dominate the Steelers and the Steelers dominate the Ravens.

I'd rather face anybody else.

 

[Patsfanin Philly]

Two useless factoids. Brady threw his 156th int yesterday. He threw 78 (half) his first six years in the league as a starter ( 2001-2006) and 78 the last 10 years ( not counting 2008). His TD/int ratio was about 1.88:1 his first 6 years and 4.29:1 since then.
------------------------
I researched how many 0/1 ( no TD/ any int) games Brady has had and came up with 17 for his career and he is 8-9 in his career in those games ( 2-0 in the playoffs)...

 

[n6249c]

If I'm not mistaken didn't BB bench Butler for a play or two? That IMHO is the bigger story than Gronk who obviously was wrong in what he did.

Yes I recall Butler getting pulled, I think it was right after his dumb PI that gave the Bills a second life on their scoring drive. To me it's a non-story. He made a bonehead play, got pulled to be coached into not doing it again. Yawn.

 

[tasmlab]

Your last paragraph, I think we lose both of them this year, here’s to hoping they go out as winners

Maybe they'll stick around to see how the Tom Brady fairy tale ends.

Imagine if Brady and Belichick retire simultaneously in a few years and that's also the year both MP and JmD both depart. Kraft will just have to shut down the team and tell us all that there are no more New England Patriots.

 

[rochrist]

The Gronk Edition.

1. I know he was frustrated but that was monumentally stupid and cheap.

2. I can see the argument for a game. I think the league hits him with two to keep him out of the Pittsburgh game and give them a better shot at taking out the Pats. If they give him more than that it's another obvious case of anti-Patriots bias.

3. I hope Hogan can go against Miami.

4. Although his reaction was bush league I get his frustration. The last two years there's rules for Gronk and rules for the rest of the league. They have to tackle him to get a flag and if he fights back at all yellow goes flying.

5. Allen has certainly proved himself blocking but last year they had Bennett when Gronk went down. Without that duel thread it will be tough sledding.

6. The run game will suffer without him. He has been a beast and when talking about the best TE it's so overlooked.

7. I love Rodney Harrison and his career here but him acting disappointed in Gronk give me an F'in break. Go watch just your hit on Trent Green you hypocrite.

8. I'm not making light when I say I fear for Gronk's knees when they play the Bills next. Honestly the Pats should request he's out for that game if the suspension is only a game. I think the Bills would be fine with it. I really worry about vigalante justice.

9. I don't know why Josh kept going away from the double back protect set. That was stopping the Bills from stunting and abusing the interior line. You better believe teams took note of that.

10. I said it a few weeks ago but the only team in the AFC that scares me is Baltimore. The team with the best shot of knocking them out of the playoffs is the, gulp, Bengals. Ya but put money in that stock.

If Talib and Crabtree got one game, and AJ Green avoids any suspension at all, then anything more than one game for Gronk would be utterly ludicrous.

 

[n6249c]

Maybe they'll stick around to see how the Tom Brady fairy tale ends.

Imagine if Brady and Belichick retire simultaneously in a few years and that's also the year both MP and JmD both depart. Kraft will just have to shut down the team and tell us all that there are no more New England Patriots.

If Brady and Belichick retire simultaneously and both MattyP and JoshMcD are still here, best thing Kraft could do is pull the two of them into his office and tell them "I want one of you to be GM/coordinator and the other to be HC/coordinator. You figure who gets which title and I'll take what I've been paying the Hoody and the two of you and split it evenly between the two of you. Steady as she goes, mates! and the good ship X Rings will sail on."

 

[VJCPatriot]

Pats offense looked a bit lackluster through the air but the ground game was dominant, so we didn't have to do as much there.

Gronk was held all day but still put up almost 150 yards, that just shows how dominant a force he is on the football field. Unfortunately his late hit, looked like frustration, will cost him 1 game. He won't be available against the fish, but at least he gets 1 week of rest and will be ready for us to use against the Steelers.

We shouldn't overlook Miami and I'm sure BB won't let the boys underestimate them. That is going to be a fairly important game. We don't own Miami as much as we do Buffalo, but Miami has looked very beatable this year so I'm not too worried.

I'm loving our defense this year. It's every bit as good as we thought it would be despite losing one of our key defenders, Dontae Hightower, for the year. Lots of guys are stepping up, not least of all, unheralded pickup Eric Lee. Hoping it's a continuing trend for our new linebacker!

Since the first 4 games of the season, the Pats defense has given up: 14, 17, 7, 13, 16, 8, 17, and 3 points!

Pats seem primed to go on their annual run for the post-season. Exciting times to be a Patriots fan! First and foremost we must Squish the Fish! Then we get to measure up against Blitzburgh Steelers and see what they can do to stop us.

 

[long distance]

6. General thoughts - Another great schematic job by the "rocket scientist". Our DL has to be the WORST DL in the league, as individuals, and without Trey Flowers took a huge step back for this game. I mean REALLY? Think of all the DL's we've faced this season, and EVERY single one of them has at least 2 guys who are the kind of pass rushers that you have to plan for. Who do you plan for with the Pats, especially without Flowers. Yet as a group they seemed to generate enough pressure to make Taylor get the ball out quick or scramble around on a consistent basis, and ultimately ended up with 4 sacks, and could have had a couple more.

Enjoyed the read, great effort. This paragraph is a bit hard to swallow though.

1. The difference between s.c. “elite“, “pro-bowl“ players, “solid starters“ and “JAGs“, “backups“ etc. is so much smaller among NFL players and less significant than fans, media and obviously part of FOs are willing to believe. Understanding of this is one of key reasons BB is able to sustain the amazing success. And it was one of key reasons Krafts joined the party. Also “measurables“, “athleticism“ just a piece of much bigger "NFL player“ puzzle.

Look f.e. at big boy Ricky. BB takes him from the street, puts him in the games (@DEN, @OAK) as a regular rotational DL after just a few practices. He does a very good job letting you forget about Brown's absence etc. When Brown returns he is released again. It happens around the league daily. The difference is there is “organizational commitment“* to this economic philosophy at Foxboro under BB & Jon Kraft.

2. Pats DL has good players. Branch was playing at “super-bowl“ level last season so his potential is “elite“. He is not close to that form this year - yet. Brown is a 1st rounder and while he still lacks consistency he showed potential of a top NFL DT (top 10? top 20? doesn't really matter). Guy is a very solid, versatile, dependable, smart NFL starter/rotational player. Ravens were not happy to lose him and they have pretty “talented“ line. Flowers we don't need to talk about. Valentine is a huge, quick body w lots of upside if he can stay healthy (a big if). Wise was among top DE/DL draft prospects in a quality edge class IMO (w significant inj history that hurt his playing time/performance in college) etc.

Maybe not as flashy as some other teams constantly drafting high but certainly good enough for coaches to work with..
__

*i borrowed “organizational commitment“ from this Lombardi article where he uses it in the context of ST:

How to Beat the Patriots

 

[n6249c]

Enjoyed the read, great effort. This paragraph is a bit hard to swallow though.

1. The difference between s.c. “elite“, “pro-bowl“ players, “solid starters“ and “JAGs“, “backups“ etc. is so much smaller among NFL players and less significant than fans, media and obviously part of FOs are willing to believe. Understanding of this is one of key reasons BB is able to sustain the amazing success. And it was one of key reasons Krafts joined the party. Also “measurables“, “athleticism“ just a piece of much bigger "NFL player“ puzzle.

Look f.e. at big boy Ricky. BB takes him from the street, puts him in the games (@DEN, @OAK) as a regular rotational DL after just a few practices. He does a very good job letting you forget about Brown's absence etc. When Brown returns he is released again. It happens around the league daily. The difference is there is “organizational commitment“* to this economic philosophy at Foxboro under BB & Jon Kraft.

2. Pats DL has good players. Branch was playing at “super-bowl“ level last season so his potential is “elite“. He is not close to that form this year - yet. Brown is a 1st rounder and while he still lacks consistency he showed potential of a top NFL DT (top 10? top 20? doesn't really matter). Guy is a very solid, versatile, dependable, smart NFL starter/rotational player. Ravens were not happy to lose him and they have pretty “talented“ line. Flowers we don't need to talk about. Valentine is a huge, quick body w lots of upside if he can stay healthy (a big if). Wise was among top DE/DL draft prospects in a quality edge class IMO (w significant inj history that hurt his playing time/performance in college) etc.

Maybe not as flashy as some other teams constantly drafting high but certainly good enough for coaches to work with..
__

*i borrowed “organizational commitment“ from this Lombardi article where he uses it in the context of ST:

How to Beat the Patriots

This is so true, and there is another element that is equally or perhaps even more important than measureable athletic traits: determination, work ethic, effort, commitment. Call it what you want, it is what made an athletically unimpressive QB the GOAT. The Patriots have an organization that recognizes this and recognizes, encourages and rewards those traits. That's how the DL can be more than the sum of the athletes playing on it.

 

[luuked]

10. I said it a few weeks ago but the only team in the AFC that scares me is Baltimore.

We most probably can beat the Ravens with Hoyer as QB as 13-17 points would already win the game.

You are afraid of a team name and their colors and not their actual team.

 

[jah]

We most probably can beat the Ravens with Hoyer as QB as 13-17 points would already win the game.

You are afraid of a team name and their colors and not their actual team.

Go read what people here were saying before they kicked our asses in 2012, and almost did it again in 2014.

 

[long distance]

This is so true, and there is another element that is equally or perhaps even more important than measureable athletic traits: determination, work ethic, effort, commitment. Call it what you want, it is what made an athletically unimpressive QB the GOAT. The Patriots have an organization that recognizes this and recognizes, encourages and rewards those traits. That's how the DL can be more than the sum of the athletes playing on it.

Yep. So many layers from athlete to player in this sport. Heart, mind..

And all-important - fundamentals:

 

[luuked]

Go read what people here were saying before they kicked our asses in 2012, and almost did it again in 2014.

It is 2017.

I dont care what people have been saying a few seasons because it has zero relevance to this years (garbage) Ravens team.

 

[Patstopia]

I can see why Buffalo liked Petersman better than Taylor. As you said he has a very fast release, and seems to have good vision. I think that if Buffalo ran the ball more and draft a reliable slot guy, then used Petersman the way the Pats used Brady his first couple of years and threw passes, they may have their next QB. But they will throw him out there and try throwing deep every set and screw the kid up!

 

[brdmaverick]

While it wasn't exactly pretty, this was an extremely workman-like game that will suit them well in the playoffs.

 

[Pats1989]

They've beaten the teams they are
" supposed" to beat handily. You never need to worry about a BB team being unprepared.

Obviously, Brady at 80 percent is better than most QB's at 100 percent. That said, I don't feel he's been as sharp the past few games. That may be a fluke, or great pass rushers. Nonetheless, he will finish with about 32 td's, and 4 k plus passing as a 40 year old. Pretty incredible stuff.

I'm still worried about the lack of a pass rush ( no Hightower), against mobile qb's such as Smith, and Wentz (potentially) in January. Furthermore, I think drafting a pass rusher in the 1st round is key. Unfortunately Hightower seems to be a guy whose going to be injury prone.

Special teams: Decent.

WR's: Edelman has really formed a great career. I do think the team needs to be cautious about his age and injury for next season. Cooks is great. Amendola is good. Ditto Hogan.

TE: Although Gronk hasn't been injured in 2017 ( knock on wood), I don't think anyone can disagree that a te of the future needs to be a priority. Lots of miles on that body. For this season and next, they're set.

Overall, I like the direction of the team. I'm not going to sit here and say they're a sure bet to get to Minneapolis. Nobody is. Steelers are a " threat" ( how big? debatable).

Winning six super bowls would put the Patriots in " iconic" territory. Pretty tough to believe this was once a down ridden, atrocious franchise ( pre 93), that was on the verge of leaving.

 

[n6249c]

[...]
WR's: Edelman has really formed a great career. I do think the team needs to be cautious about his age and injury for next season. Cooks is great. Amendola is good. Ditto Hogan.
[...]

Overall, I like the direction of the team. I'm not going to sit here and say they're a sure bet to get to Minneapolis. Nobody is. Steelers are a " threat" ( how big? debatable).

Winning six super bowls would put the Patriots in " iconic" territory. Pretty tough to believe this was once a down ridden, atrocious franchise ( pre 93), that was on the verge of leaving.

Agree about Edelman. I'm as much or more concerned about 'Dola. Both of them seem likely to be incubating incipient cases of CTE, just a matter of time. I certainly hope and pray not, but the eyeball test is pretty clear on that point.

Also agree that I like the direction of the team. They've finally started to show the benefits of the rebuilding efforts after their string of disappointing results against the Giants. No more fears about that matchup stealing the Lombardi again this season.

 

[WaterfallJumper]

They've beaten the teams they are
" supposed" to beat handily. You never need to worry about a BB team being unprepared.

Obviously, Brady at 80 percent is better than most QB's at 100 percent. That said, I don't feel he's been as sharp the past few games. That may be a fluke, or great pass rushers. Nonetheless, he will finish with about 32 td's, and 4 k plus passing as a 40 year old. Pretty incredible stuff.

I'm still worried about the lack of a pass rush ( no Hightower), against mobile qb's such as Smith, and Wentz (potentially) in January. Furthermore, I think drafting a pass rusher in the 1st round is key. Unfortunately Hightower seems to be a guy whose going to be injury prone.

Special teams: Decent.

WR's: Edelman has really formed a great career. I do think the team needs to be cautious about his age and injury for next season. Cooks is great. Amendola is good. Ditto Hogan.

TE: Although Gronk hasn't been injured in 2017 ( knock on wood), I don't think anyone can disagree that a te of the future needs to be a priority. Lots of miles on that body. For this season and next, they're set.

Overall, I like the direction of the team. I'm not going to sit here and say they're a sure bet to get to Minneapolis. Nobody is. Steelers are a " threat" ( how big? debatable).

Winning six super bowls would put the Patriots in " iconic" territory. Pretty tough to believe this was once a down ridden, atrocious franchise ( pre 93), that was on the verge of leaving.

Brady has played fine, but he's still dealing with some lingering injuries. Nothing to be concerned about at all.

Tyrod is basically the definition of a mobile quarterback. We held him to under 100 yards and an interception.

We have Derek Rivers and Keionta Davis coming back from injury next year. I'm a huge fan of their abilities.

Special teams is more than decent. The Patriots have one of the best units in the entire league.

The Patriots are the best team in the NFL. They will steamroll the Steelers. If they don't make it to the Super Bowl this year, it would be an embarrassment.