Idle Thoughts - the "I didn't see THAT one coming" edition

[Bill Lee]

Just ignore the flip flopping media who will try to make controversy about the Brady/Garapolo thing for the next 3 weeks and beyond. There is none, but that won't stop their trolling.

Three absolute truths: Live, death and (most of) Boston Sports - Talk Radio (BS-TR) is trolling.

I think this would be an excellent time to eat some crow and apologize personally to James White, a player I have denigrated on many occasions, mostly because of his poor running ability. Well in this game, not only did White make 5 catches, some of them very clutch, he had a great 4 yd run for a first down, where he actually pushed the pile to get those last 2 yds. Hats off to you James.

Me too. He made a great hands catch early and I said to myself, too bad he can't run good enough to stay on the field all three downs. I was wrong. He showed a lot more strength than I recall him showing last year.

So our starting OL was made up of 2 rookie picks from the lower rounds, and 2nd year, undersized UDFA, and 2 back up OT's no one likes. And when it comes right down to it, they did OK, even better than OK. Sure sometimes it looked ugly in the running game as well as pass protection, but JG was only sacked twice (both on blitzes) and the run game managed to game just over 100 yds, even though they weren't opening much in the way of holes for the RB's

It was nice watching JG having great pocket awareness on most of the plays, and great footwork that allowed him to shift around in the pocket and extend the play. Let's not forget he's not as tall as TB12 so he has to keep moving to see down field.

I liked Chandler Jones, and I'm glad he got a sack and fumble recovery so the perception from the AZ fans will be positive for him, but given who the LT was, you would have thought you would have gotten more from a guy you are paying top dollar for than 3 T's, 2 QB hits, and the fumble and sack.

But they aren't, he's still on his rookie contract, and all they gave up for him was an OL with an injury history and a 2nd round pick next year. IMHO they were going to drop Cooper anyways so they are basically renting a former 1st round choice in his fourth year for a 2nd round choice next year. They still have time to decide whether or not to pay him top dollar, but it looks like BB made the right choice. Barring injury AZ or some other team is going to pay him $15M/year starting next year and he's good but not in that category, IMHO.

Special teams - Now we know why BB keeps all those so called special teams guys. They were simply AWESOME. 4 times the Pats kicked the ball short and 4 time they stopped AZ inside the 25. None more important than the last one. Think about it. What if the AZ drive started at the 25 instead of the 8, we wouldn't be so happy now. Punt coverage was good, Allen was good, and the Ghost was fantastic. It really was a team win, and they needed all three phases to be good. BTW- BB mentioned James Jones specifically for his special teams work....and now we know why he's on the roster.

Agree, and every PR/KR was done well too. No huge gashes, but in each case the catch was solid and in some cases some good YAC were gained too.

Dude, it's spelled "Jimmy". If you spell it with an "ie" at the end its the female version of the name. Please change it. Thanks.

Guess Ken is having some gender identity challenges today?

 

[SEA_Pat]

If you go back and watch the replay, Valentine had Johnson stopped.. The only reason Johnson gets free is that two other Patriots players fall on Valentine simultaneously, causing him to lose his grip on Johnson. If you're going to blame Valentine for that then any dumb looks you get are well deserved..

Didn't see that, but happy if it means he made a great play. Seems we have another solid fat guy in the middle to go with Branch, Johnson and Brown, and that works very well for me. Once again, BB retools on the fly and puts us in a position of continuity as he rebuilds the team while remaining in contention.

 

[patfanken]

Ken, I chalk it down to the early season, not as much tape, and Hightower hobbled a bit. Just three sacks overall for example, but the type of numbers that grow as the season goes forward and the complexity likewise increases. (Same with our DL not twisting, stunting, and executing much beyond the simplistic one-on-one pass rushing techniques).

I'm one of those guys that thinks the defense tremendously suffers from the increased "walkthrough" practice structure of the league (which I think is contrary to the normal thought process). The slight muscle movements, the instinctual step, hand fighting prowess - these are all re-learned at speed, not during a "no touch" shells practice.

Good point on the practice structure. That's why September NFL football has become almost like an extended pre-season. There are HS teams that do more live practices and contact during the 3 weeks of their preseasons, than what they do now in 7. I know my teams did.

 

[BradyFTW!]

Over/under on how many weeks before the rest of the league starts copying Belichick's kickoff strategy of short, high, returnable kicks rather than just giving them the ball on the 25? I give it 3-5, as usual Belichick is so far ahead of the curve that he's essentially charting the course for everyone else.

 

[patfanken]

As always Ken, a great insight and hard to argue with any of it.

The only thing I'd like to touch on is the above and it is something that has bothered me with a lot of Pats fans when discussing these four games.

This whole attitude of trading away our backup at this stage is ridiculous. Brady is 39. We've seen over the course of history that drop-offs are often very sudden and not expected. We'd love Brady to play until he's 45 (as he's expressed is his wish) but we have to be realistic with ourselves...how likely is that?

Maybe it's because we had the luxury of a great QB for so long, but are we really blind to other franchises who perennially struggle to replace their franchise QBs? Some get lucky, such as the Colts, but others aren't. Do you want to see this team in a position where we are panic drafting a QB in the first round and having to trade up and gamble future picks on making sure we get the best available to us?

Look how long Rodgers sat behind Favre. We knew how good Rodgers was in terms of his athleticism and intangibles. Rodgers had the tools and the intangibles to go to many teams and start. The Packers knew it, Rodgers knew it and other teams knew it.

When your QB is 39 and can drop off through injury and/or fatigue at any moment you shouldn't be trading a QB who could well be your future. I think Garoppolo may have given us a slight glimpse in to life after Brady last night. I don't for one second think if we go 4-0 we should be looking to move past him now, but that decision may get made in the next couple of years.

Brady may talk it up, but he isn't playing until 45. I'd trade in 2-3 more years of success for a potential 10-15 if we truly think Garoppolo is ready to go in the next year or so.

I can understand your concern, UK, but the timing isn't quite right for Jimmy to stay. IIRC Tom's current contract ends after the 2018 season, and I'm convinced that for the next 2 or 3 years, Tom Brady is STILL going to be the best QB that the Pats can put out there. So that's the problem for JG staying. That and I think they like Brissett as that possible transition guy and he's going to be under the Pats control for the next 4 years.

Now the Pats COULD wait another year and keep JG and trade him after next season, like they did with Castle, but THAT is a far more risky move given teams only have to wait a month and he'll be a FA and they have to give up nothing. Plus even if they do manage to trade him, the compensation wouldn't be as high, since the Pats would have less leverage due to the time constraints.

No, UK, dealing him after this season would be ideal (assuming his play remains consistent). The Pats wouldn't be squeezed by low ball offers, and historically QB starved teams vastly overpay for potential QB talent. You just have to look at what the Vikings paid for their new QB. Right now, I would foresee something like a first and 4th in 2017 draft and a 2nd in the 2018.

Imagine the consternation at 354 Park Ave, when Roger has to hand the Lombardi over to Tom Brady in February, and then watch the Pats get a top 5 pick at the end of April. Now THAT would be a dream come true for us all.

 

[DaBruinz]

Over/under on how many weeks before the rest of the league starts copying Belichick's kickoff strategy or short, high, returnable kicks rather than just giving them the ball on the 25? I give it 3-5, as usual Belichick is so far ahead of the curve that he's essentially charting the course for everyone else.

What's interesting is that BB has been having Gost do this for the last couple of years and with great success.. People have complained about the number of TBs Gost has had (being not as many as other kickers) well, now we see why..

What's interesting is that, imho, this will have the opposite effect that the league wanted.. I think there will be MORE kick returns, not less..

 

[BradyFTW!]

What's interesting is that BB has been having Gost do this for the last couple of years and with great success.. People have complained about the number of TBs Gost has had (being not as many as other kickers) well, now we see why..

What's interesting is that, imho, this will have the opposite effect that the league wanted.. I think there will be MORE kick returns, not less..

I don't think the league actually wants fewer kick returns, FWIW. If they did, there's no way they would've moved touchbacks out to the 25. They want to pay lip service to it so they don't get burned down the line re: their lack of care for player safety, but they know kickoffs are exciting plays that people like to watch.

Same reason why they went through all the song and dance of having an independent neurologist on site... who has no authority to overrule the team doctor if the team doctor determines the player is not concussed.

 

[patfanken]

Thanks for those who pointed out my obvious mistakes: I now know that it's JIMMY not Jimmie, and it's MARTY not Mary, and its Jonathan, not James,

It's also now 1PM and not 2 AM, and I am somewhat cogent and clear headed (I think) .

 

[Bill Lee]

Thanks for those who pointed out my obvious mistakes: I now know that it's JIMMY not Jimmie, and it's MARTY not Mary, and its Jonathan, not James,

It's also now 1PM and not 2 AM, and I am somewhat cogent and clear headed (I think) .

Regardless, you nailed the key point, that we all now know that JG is an NFL caliber quarterback, something that wasn't established till last night.

It goes without saying that we have every expectation that this "baptism by fire" is going to help Jimmy become even better, game by game, no matter how we spell his name!

 

[Actual Pats Fan]

I would just add that the Patriots were -2 with turnovers. That is a huge stat when playing a good team like the Cardinals. They had no business winning that game with two turnovers.

They made it closer than it would've otherwise been.

My thoughts:

Kristin really can sing.

Cards' shade of red jerseys, like all the rest, can't compete with ours on our real home uni's.

Very proud, and love Bennett & McCourty's anthem salute...wish the whole team did it.

JW is the real deal, made clutch plays.

Al Michaels referred to Dante being on Pete Carroll's staff, but Scar really first came here along with Ron Meyer from SMU in '82...guess we'll have to credit Billy Sullivan for making the right move after all.

I underestimated Cards; Fitz is still great.

Pats became the earliest team to clinch a division title (9/11/16) in NFL history.

Yeah, I admit it...I was laughing at Palmer after the game.

 

[patfanken]

A couple of things I might have added if I could have stayed awake last night.

1. Has anyone checked the suicide watch list for Ray Ray. After watching the Jets lose a game they definitely SHOULD have won, and then to watch the Pats WIN a game they were definitely supposed to lose, might have just sent him over the edge. Ray Ray, let us know you're all right. It would be a much less funny world without you.

2. What's up with kickers these days. What is making them so much better. Gostkowski kicked 2 FG's that would have been good from 60 yds. I saw replays where other kickers were doing the same. It's gotten to the point where a 55 yd FG is something you EXPECT the kicker to make. I also read at PFT where Adam V has a much better success percentage kicking 50+ FG's since he turned 40, than he did in his 20's and 30's

I would find it interesting if a reporter looked into this phenomenon, because something must have changed in how kickers are preparing very recently. I don't think its just they have "stronger legs". I think its something more and I'd like to find out what it is. Reporters "do your job".

3. I think the Texans are the real deal and will present a very big challenge on that short week, especially with a short week, because on a short week, coaching and preparation become less of a factor, and those 2 things are usually big advantages for us. The Texans have a LOT of talent on both sides of the ball, and I think BOB is a better HC than the ones we usually faced when we played them.

Granted being at home help, especially on a short week, but as we saw last night, it certainly isn't a given you will win at home. If we are going to lose a game in this 4 game run, THAT's the one I'd pick.

4. I wouldn't be surprise to see JG put up a stinker in one of these 4 games. QB progression unfortunately isn't a straight line thing. It's more like 2 steps forward, one step back, and so on. So if we are going to go 4-0 in this stretch, there is going to be a game that we win DESPITE the QB rather than because of him.

5. One of the few disappointments I could think of after such an impressive win was the lack of TO's we forced in this game. After being near the top of the league in TO's last season, and having a ton of them in preseason, we came up empty in a game you would have expected to need a few if we were gong to com up with a win. I hope that turns around over the next 3 games because like I said in the previous comment there WILL come a time where TO's will be critical.

6. BB might have already moved on to Miami, but I'm not going to stop wallowing in the win until this weekend.

 

[The Gr8est]

Regardless, you nailed the key point, that we all now know that JG is an NFL caliber quarterback, something that wasn't established till last night.

It goes without saying that we have every expectation that this "baptism by fire" is going to help Jimmy become even better, game by game, no matter how we spell his name!

Let us know when you are confident in your ability to spell "Jimmy" correctly.....


Then we'll start teaching you his last name, it's a bugger....

 

[varjao]

I can understand your concern, UK, but the timing isn't quite right for Jimmy to stay. IIRC Tom's current contract ends after the 2018 season, and I'm convinced that for the next 2 or 3 years, Tom Brady is STILL going to be the best QB that the Pats can put out there. So that's the problem for JG staying. That and I think they like Brissett as that possible transition guy and he's going to be under the Pats control for the next 4 years.

Now the Pats COULD wait another year and keep JG and trade him after next season, like they did with Castle, but THAT is a far more risky move given teams only have to wait a month and he'll be a FA and they have to give up nothing. Plus even if they do manage to trade him, the compensation wouldn't be as high, since the Pats would have less leverage due to the time constraints.

No, UK, dealing him after this season would be ideal (assuming his play remains consistent). The Pats wouldn't be squeezed by low ball offers, and historically QB starved teams vastly overpay for potential QB talent. You just have to look at what the Vikings paid for their new QB. Right now, I would foresee something like a first and 4th in 2017 draft and a 2nd in the 2018.

Imagine the consternation at 354 Park Ave, when Roger has to hand the Lombardi over to Tom Brady in February, and then watch the Pats get a top 5 pick at the end of April. Now THAT would be a dream come true for us all.

Until yesterday I was salivating over the possibility of getting a high 1st round pick and even something more for Jimmy. Let's strech things a bit here, let's think about 2 1st round picks just to do a quick mental exercise. While this would be awesome, excluding other variables like "bustness" , injuries etc.., you have 2 possible top players under control for 4 or 5 years. This is game changing but what is this compared to 10+ years of stability and above average QB play (I'm not even dreaming with Top QB play as we don't know that yet and Jimmy is still under development)?

What UK is saying and I'm going on this line too, is that if Jimmy is the real deal I don't want to be worried about the position until 2030. I love Tom but we need to look at the big picture here. Teams are starving for good QB play and the way college football is going with double threat QB's a pocket passer will become a rare asset in a few years.

Certainly there are still a lot of time to figure that out but if Jimmy is the heir and show he can play in a high level in this league you don't trade a certainty for even 3 questionable high draft picks.

 

[Bill Lee]

Let us know when you are confident in your ability to spell "Jimmy" correctly.....


Then we'll start teaching you his last name, it's a bugger....

Nah, all those vowels, and those consonants mixed in too, I'll just stick to JG, thankyouverymuch!

 

[patriot1136]

How do you guys think Anthony Johnson did on defense?

 

[Joker]

A couple of things I might have added if I could have stayed awake last night.

1. Has anyone checked the suicide watch list for Ray Ray. After watching the Jets lose a game they definitely SHOULD have won, and then to watch the Pats WIN a game they were definitely supposed to lose, might have just sent him over the edge. Ray Ray, let us know you're all right. It would be a much less funny world without you.

Homer Homer is alive and well,Ken...yesterday was "just a scratch.."

"

RayRay1

2875 posts

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11 Sep 2016 08:35 PM
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Jets will be a playoff team

Let down today, missing FG's and coming within inches on two drives that should have been TD's...

Suck it Assfire, Pats start 0-4

Of course, still the best Nostra-step-on-his-****-amus in sports internet history...never forget "Sanchez...ELITE!"

 

[patfanken]

Until yesterday I was salivating over the possibility of getting a high 1st round pick and even something more for Jimmy. Let's strech things a bit here, let's think about 2 1st round picks just to do a quick mental exercise. While this would be awesome, excluding other variables like "bustness" , injuries etc.., you have 2 possible top players under control for 4 or 5 years. This is game changing but what is this compared to 10+ years of stability and above average QB play (I'm not even dreaming with Top QB play as we don't know that yet and Jimmy is still under development)?

What UK is saying and I'm going on this line too, is that if Jimmy is the real deal I don't want to be worried about the position until 2030. I love Tom but we need to look at the big picture here. Teams are starving for good QB play and the way college football is going with double threat QB's a pocket passer will become a rare asset in a few years.

Certainly there are still a lot of time to figure that out but if Jimmy is the heir and show he can play in a high level in this league you don't trade a certainty for even 3 questionable high draft picks.

I see your point, V, but that would put us directly in a Brett Farve situation. You'd have to tell Tom that the 2017 season is going to be his last as a Patriot, and either trade him or simply let him go.

And then there is the Jacoby Brissett factor. Here's a kid who had the best preseason, I ever saw from a rookie QB. He has even more physical tools that JG, and you have 4 full years to iron out any of the kinks he has in his game (footwork, arm mechanics, release time, and most importantly, decision making). If the Pats think Jacoby has the same potential as JG to being "an NFL QB", why not collect the ransom now, and make the inevitable Tom Brady decision 3 years later than you have to now, when it will be infinitely easier.

 

[patchick]

But they aren't, he's still on his rookie contract, and all they gave up for him was an OL with an injury history and a 2nd round pick next year. IMHO they were going to drop Cooper anyways so they are basically renting a former 1st round choice in his fourth year for a 2nd round choice next year.

I think you lost count. Jones is in his 5th year, playing on a 5th-year option deal for $7.79 million. Not exactly top dollar, but more than Chris Long + Jabaal Sheard put together.

 

[patfanken]

Homer Homer is alive and well,Ken...yesterday was "just a scratch.."

"

RayRay1

2875 posts

19 views

11805 of 11810


11 Sep 2016 08:35 PM
Like

Jets will be a playoff team

Let down today, missing FG's and coming within inches on two drives that should have been TD's...

Suck it Assfire, Pats start 0-4

Of course, still the best Nostra-step-on-his-****-amus in sports internet history...never forget "Sanchez...ELITE!"

Well that's good to know.

And I don't doubt that the Jets might be a playoff team. From what I saw and read from the replays and reports, that DL is the real deal, and probably the best we will see this season, and we have to do it TWICE....and who know what our OL will look like when we do. And the offense isn't a slouch either. Another 10 and 6 season isn't out of the realm of possibility

 

[patfanken]

I think you lost count. Jones is in his 5th year, playing on a 5th-year option deal for $7.79 million. Not exactly top dollar, but more than Chris Long + Jabaal Sheard put together.

' BTW- I thought AZ already gave him a LT extension, and THAT's why I said he's getting top dollar.