idle thoughts- stepping back from the edge

[Patspsycho]

I disagree, it is the worst defense the league has ever seen on a 10-3 team. It is the worst secondary I have ever seen put on the field in the NFL. GM Bill has done this team a great disservice.

Are you aware those players in the secondary aren't even BB's first or even second, and even third choice? He's down to his fourth or fifth choice of who he wants back there. Hell he's starting an offensive player back there and his nickelback is a converted quarterback.

 

[mgteich]

I generally agree. However,

Belichick CHOSE Molden over Butler. Molden had ZERO reps yesterday. Edelman played CB instead. Did I miss something? Is Molden injured?

Belichick CHOSE Sergio Brown over James Sanders. Brown had ZERO reps yesterday. Slater played instead. Did I miss something? Is Sergio Brown injured?

Belichick did well to find Ihedigbo and Jones. However, the starting of Edelman and Slater is because Belichick made poor choices in building the 53 man roster.

Are you aware those players in the secondary aren't even BB's first or even second, and even third choice? He's down to his fourth or fifth choice of who he wants back there. Hell he's starting an offensive player back there and his nickelback is a converted quarterback.

 

[shmessy]

I generally agree. However,

Belichick CHOSE Molden over Butler. Molden had ZERO reps yesterday. Edelman played CB instead. Did I miss something? Is Molden injured?

Belichick CHOSE Sergio Brown over James Sanders. Brown had ZERO reps yesterday. Slater played instead. Did I miss something? Is Sergio Brown injured?

Belichick did well to find Ihedigbo and Jones. However, the starting of Edelman and Slater is because Belichick made poor choices in building the 53 man roster.

Disagree.

It's Open Mike Night and he's giving scrubs back there more reps in case he needs them in the playoffs.

Unless there are more injuries, we won't be seeing Nate Jones, Tracey White and Matthew Slater back there in the playoffs. We'll see Arrington and (hopefully a healthier) McCourty at CB with Chung and Ihedigbo or Molden at safety. The Safety position is where BB screwed up the most by cutting the "Pro-Bowler" and The "True Champion" (BB's actual words to Sanders last year).

BB owes the fans an explanation regarding the cuts at the safety position.

 

[Kulko]

Well this horrible incompetent team is 4-2 in the season against playoff calier teams.

As likely No3 Seed we will have a 40% chance of droping in the first round. Even the 2007 Pats probably had about a 30% Chance of dropping in the first round.
The 2003 Pats barely survived a 17-14 sueaker against the titans.

In trhe playoffs we will play good teams and it will lucky if we beat three of them. THe same things is true for any other of the 12 teams, but one will manage the feat anyways. Lets hope it is us.

 

[NYCPatsFan]

Disagree.

It's Open Mike Night and he's giving scrubs back there more reps in case he needs them in the playoffs.

Even at the expense of losing the Colts & Skins games?

 

[patfanken]

I generally agree. However,

Belichick CHOSE Molden over Butler. Molden had ZERO reps yesterday. Edelman played CB instead. Did I miss something? Is Molden injured?

Belichick CHOSE Sergio Brown over James Sanders. Brown had ZERO reps yesterday. Slater played instead. Did I miss something? Is Sergio Brown injured?

Belichick did well to find Ihedigbo and Jones. However, the starting of Edelman and Slater is because Belichick made poor choices in building the 53 man roster.

Now THAT is an interesting find, M. I didn't realize that Molden was a healthy scratch...if he was healthy. That's very curious and I'd like to find out the reasons for it.

 

[E Belichick Unum]

Are you aware those players in the secondary aren't even BB's first or even second, and even third choice? He's down to his fourth or fifth choice of who he wants back there. Hell he's starting an offensive player back there and his nickelback is a converted quarterback.

Would you rather have Sanders and Merriweather or Brown and Ihedibo? Sanders or Moulden? Would the team have had a better secondary if GM Bill had kept one of the afore mentioned safeties? This has nothing to do with injury, unless you count Bodden, it has everything to do with bad judgement and worse personel decisions.

I am as big a Bill suck up as there is, but reality has to intrude upon fantacy sometimes. And it is the worst secondary I have ever seen, it is historic how bad these guys guys are playing. They make bad QBs look like Bart Starr, imagine what a good QB will do against these guys?

 

[shmessy]

Even at the expense of losing the Colts & Skins games?

It's the PLAYOFFS that count right?

I thought the feeling amongst the folks who are discounting 10-3 is that the playoffs are automatic, but the real deal is to actually win a game in the playoffs.

You can't have it both ways.

BB is obviously doing the open mike night deal to get some experience to the deep depth scrubs in case someone goes down for the playoffs.

The only time to do that is against crappy teams like the Colts and Skins. It almost bit him in the arse as those games became way too close for comfort at the ends. My guess is he'll go full throttle for the Denver game, but dial back again for the Mia and Buff games at home.

It's all about the playoffs.

 

[NYCPatsFan]

I responded in kind to someone who used "you and your ilk", and who's initial post was a slap at people who have issues with the team, and I'm supposedly the one who was arrogant?

Good comedy.

Nope DI, he is correct and it is puzzling how you still don't see that you overreacted even after Shmessy pointed out to your initial 'fixed it for you' post.

IMO, you are one of the most articulate posters on this board and convey your insights with a lot of maturity and clarity.

Think you were miffed at the usage of the word 'ilk' and instead of getting back at Ken in a more subtle manner, you decided to empty your gun.

 

[NYCPatsFan]

It's the PLAYOFFS that count right?

I thought the feeling amongst the folks who are discounting 10-3 is that the playoffs are automatic, but the real deal is to actually win a game in the playoffs.

You can't have it both ways.

BB is obviously doing the open mike night deal to get some experience to the deep depth scrubs in case someone goes down for the playoffs.

The only time to do that is against crappy teams like the Colts and Skins. It almost bit him in the arse as those games became way too close for comfort at the ends. My guess is he'll go full throttle for the Denver game, but dial back again for the Mia and Buff games at home.

It's all about the playoffs.

I understand where you are coming from but wonder if the starters on our D have demonstrated that they, as a team + given their individual skills, experience and playing together, can stop the first team we meet in the playoffs and so don't need this real time regular season experience to improve their deficiencies.

 

[shmessy]

I understand where you are coming from but wonder if the starters on our D have demonstrated that they, as a team + given their individual skills, experience and playing together, can stop the first team we meet in the playoffs and so don't need this real time regular season experience to improve their deficiencies.

Good point, which is why we probably see Spikes and Chung back there this week against Denver (IF Chung in a walking boot yesterday isn't keeping him out).

THIS upcoming game is going to be the best playoff prep for the team - - big lights, loud crowd on the road. If a starter doesn't play this week it's because he's legitimately hurt.

Would be great to win all 3 games, but of the three 3 the Denver game is the big enchilada experience-wise, degree of difficulty-wise and prep-wise for the playoffs.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

Disagree.

It's Open Mike Night and he's giving scrubs back there more reps in case he needs them in the playoffs.

Unless there are more injuries, we won't be seeing Nate Jones, Tracey White and Matthew Slater back there in the playoffs. We'll see Arrington and (hopefully a healthier) McCourty at CB with Chung and Ihedigbo or Molden at safety. The Safety position is where BB screwed up the most by cutting the "Pro-Bowler" and The "True Champion" (BB's actual words to Sanders last year).

BB owes the fans an explanation regarding the cuts at the safety position.

I think the cuts were self explanatory and not entirely unexpected. He didn't like those guys whether because of attitude or cost vs. limited production. Merriweather is a loose cannon. Sanders was injured a lot and reportedly showed up in camp out of shape and while he was good at putting others in position he wasn't consistently good at playing his own beyond serving as a last line of defense unless he took his usual bad angle then too so it was hard to justify retaining that kind of guy as a leader and a team top ten paid player. You can't lead from the bench. And apparently he didn't want to take a pay cut here to be what he ended up as in Atlanta, a last ditch backup on a one year deal. I recall him bristling a little last season after getting his big deal and then not starting. So there could have been underlying attitude problems brewing with him as well.

Bill decided to go with younger effort guys he felt showed promise and a couple of FA vets and see if he could coach any of them over the hump. It obviously hadn't panned out with the true champion or the pro bowler. It hasn't panned out all that well with the younger guys and the Dowling injury and a lingering injury to Chung and now Ihedibo wearing down and playing hurt has exacerbated the situation. But there is no reason to believe it would have been a whole lot different with the dynamic duo still here - especially given McCourty's slump and the continued inability of Bodden to ever show up in a non contract season.

 

[shmessy]

I think the cuts were self explanatory and not entirely unexpected. He didn't like those guys whether because of attitude or cost vs. limited production. Merriweather is a loose cannon. Sanders was injured a lot and reportedly showed up in camp out of shape and while he was good at putting others in position he wasn't consistently good at playing his own beyond serving as a last line of defense unless he took his usual bad angle then too so it was hard to justify retaining that kind of guy as a leader and a team top ten paid player. You can't lead from the bench. And apparently he didn't want to take a pay cut here to be what he ended up as in Atlanta, a last ditch backup on a one year deal. I recall him bristling a little last season after getting his big deal and then not starting. So there could have been underlying attitude problems brewing with him as well.

Bill decided to go with younger effort guys he felt showed promise and a couple of FA vets and see if he could coach any of them over the hump. It obviously hadn't panned out with the true champion or the pro bowler. It hasn't panned out all that well with the younger guys and the Dowling injury and a lingering injury to Chung and now Ihedibo wearing down and playing hurt has exacerbated the situation. But there is no reason to believe it would have been a whole lot different with the dynamic duo still here - especially given McCourty's slump and the continued inability of Bodden to ever show up in a non contract season.

I understand the "pro-bowler" (though we should have received SOMETHING in return on a trade) - - but Sanders? Bad move. BAD MOVE. This isn't hindsight - -I was pissed off at the time. There is NOTHING outside of Chung that would have been better than Sanders on this team - - it was a tragic error on BB's part. And again, Sanders was cut with nothing in return. Money isn't an issue - - this team is several million dollars below the salary cap. This secondary needs, BEGS, for veteran experience and a hard hitting attitude. The cream always rises to the top - - just ask the Atlanta Falcons:

Catching up with former Pats - New England Patriots Blog - ESPN Boston

S James Sanders (Falcons)
Week 14: Starts in a 31-23 win at Carolina and totals 1 tackle
Week 13: Starts in a 17-10 loss at Houston; totals 10 tackles and recovers a fumble
Week 12: Starts again at safety because of injuries; totals 8 tackles in 24-14 home win over Vikings
Week 11: Starts at safety in place of injured William Moore in 23-17 home win over Titans; totals 4 tackles
Week 10: Starts at safety in place of injured William Moore and finishes with 5 tackles in overtime loss to Saints
Week 9: Comes on after injury to William Moore and finishes with 1 tackle in 31-7 road win over Colts
Week 8: Bye
Week 7: Active but does not show up on the stat sheet in a 23-16 road win at Detroit
Week 6: Inactive in 31-17 win over the Panthers
Week 5: Plays in a reserve role in a 25-14 home loss to the Packers; finishes with 4 tackles and 1 pass defended
Week 4: Plays as a reserve in a 30-28 road win over the Seahawks, credited with a pass defended and special teams tackle
Week 3: Plays as a reserve in a 16-13 loss at Tampa and doesn't register on the stat sheet
Week 2: Starts at safety in a 35-31 home win over the Eagles, and totals 3 tackles
Week 1: Doesn't start and doesn't show up on the stat sheet in Falcons' 30-12 loss to the Bears

 

[MoLewisrocks]

I understand the "pro-bowler" (though we should have received SOMETHING in return on a trade) - - but Sanders? Bad move. BAD MOVE. This isn't hindsight - -I was pissed off at the time. There is NOTHING outside of Chung that would have been better than Sanders on this team - - it was a tragic error on BB's part. And again, Sanders was cut with nothing in return. Money isn't an issue - - this team is several million dollars below the salary cap. This secondary needs, BEGS, for veteran experience and a hard hitting attitude. The cream always rises to the top - - just ask the Atlanta Falcons:

Catching up with former Pats - New England Patriots Blog - ESPN Boston

S James Sanders (Falcons)
Week 14: Starts in a 31-23 win at Carolina and totals 1 tackle
Week 13: Starts in a 17-10 loss at Houston; totals 10 tackles and recovers a fumble
Week 12: Starts again at safety because of injuries; totals 8 tackles in 24-14 home win over Vikings
Week 11: Starts at safety in place of injured William Moore in 23-17 home win over Titans; totals 4 tackles
Week 10: Starts at safety in place of injured William Moore and finishes with 5 tackles in overtime loss to Saints
Week 9: Comes on after injury to William Moore and finishes with 1 tackle in 31-7 road win over Colts
Week 8: Bye
Week 7: Active but does not show up on the stat sheet in a 23-16 road win at Detroit
Week 6: Inactive in 31-17 win over the Panthers
Week 5: Plays in a reserve role in a 25-14 home loss to the Packers; finishes with 4 tackles and 1 pass defended
Week 4: Plays as a reserve in a 30-28 road win over the Seahawks, credited with a pass defended and special teams tackle
Week 3: Plays as a reserve in a 16-13 loss at Tampa and doesn't register on the stat sheet
Week 2: Starts at safety in a 35-31 home win over the Eagles, and totals 3 tackles
Week 1: Doesn't start and doesn't show up on the stat sheet in Falcons' 30-12 loss to the Bears

Those stats don't tell me much other than he was a healthy scratch or no show more often than not for the first 9 weeks of the season and he's made some tackles and recovered one fumble in the last 5 weeks when Atlanta had no choice but to start him. Not sure what that performance translates to here beyond underscoring why he isn't here anymore. And I doubt we have much cap space left with all the roster chuning and IR'ing that has occurred this season. Miguel isn't updating anymore. But beyond that this team is predicated on not knowingly overpaying for marginal talent, Ocho being the annual exception because who knew he'd be this useless.

 

[shmessy]

Those stats don't tell me much other than he was a healthy scratch or no show more often than not for the first 9 weeks of the season and he's made some tackles and recovered one fumble in the last 5 weeks when Atlanta had no choice but to start him. Not sure what that performance translates to here beyond underscoring why he isn't here anymore.

It shows that he came into a new system RAW, caught onto it and has become a solid contributor.

Watch Slater and Ihedigbo on the Brandon Banks razzle dazzle touchdown throw from Sunday again and tell me how inconsequential good angles and tackling are. Enjoy the Keystone Cops routine in our secondary on this between 0:48-0:52:

Brandon Banks Throws 49 Yard TD Pass to Santana Moss on Reverse (12-11-2011) - YouTube


As I wrote, the cream always rises to the top. The player whom BB called "A True Champion" was let go for nothing, with nothing on this team to replace him with.

Hey, if you think he would not have been better than what we have now, then ok.

 

[Seacoast Fan]

It shows that he came into a new system RAW, caught onto it and has becaome a solid contributor.

Watch Slater and Ihedigbo on the Brandon Banks razzle dazzle touchdown throw from Sunday again and tell me how inconsequential good angles and tackling are. Enjoy the Keystone Cops routine in our secondary on this between 0:48-0:52:

Brandon Banks Throws 49 Yard TD Pass to Santana Moss on Reverse (12-11-2011) - YouTube


As I wrote, the cream always rises to the top. The player whom BB called "A True Champion" was let go for nothing, with nothing on this team to replace him with.

Hey, if you think he would not have been better than what we have now, then ok.

I agree with you regarding the Sanders issue. I thought at the time, we should have kept him, after already getting rid of Meriweather. I can't believe
sanders would not be doing better than whoever is the safety of the moment we now employ.
The replay on the option pass above is especially galling because the pass was badly underthrown...if either of the safeties had not been fooled so badly, that was a pick waiting to happen...or at least, a pass defended.

 

[IllegalContact]

It was one day though, the 03 or 04 team had a couple bad days on defense towards the end of the year too, didnt they have a couple guys rush for over 200 yards on them. Not comparing this team to those just saying that the rush defense can have a bad day but lock it down in the remaining games.

This defense hasn't locked anything down

 

[Zeus]

This defense hasn't locked anything down

I'm sure there are other examples, but LeSean McCoy (10 carries, 31 yards) comes to mind.

 

[Mack Herron]

I'm sure there are other examples, but LeSean McCoy (10 carries, 31 yards) comes to mind.

Denver will be a good test for rushing yards. I'll take the "over" please.

 

[IllegalContact]

I'm sure there are other examples, but LeSean McCoy (10 carries, 31 yards) comes to mind.

Maybe because Vince young was busy having a career day?