Content Post Idle thoughts: Moral victory, or Lost opportunity....

[Wozzy]

According to the stat I saw, Mac was pressured 28 of 54 passes. That isn’t the disaster it was last year, but it isn’t great. The o-line played ok especially compared expectations. But they weren’t great.

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If a defense that set the 4th most sacks in league history last season didn’t apply some pressure against two rookie guards it would be weird.

 

[1960Pats]

No more moral victories. We have known since 2021 that we can hang with essentially any team out there. Which is a good thing for sure, the situation is not as bad as the doomsayers say. Roster wise , I think we have built a very respectable team and hopefully we see continued improvement.

But the fact is we don’t have the horses offensively to pull these games out regularly, or even once in a while when it comes to the leagues elites. Its always one thing or another and it will be that way until we find a true #1 guy or mac elevates his game/ starts eliminating the negative plays and sack taking when you can get rid of it . We also lack the intangibles from back in the day that used to make up for lack of a superstar wr. Yesterday was another game we won if we simply didn’t lose the turnover battle, make a play on st, avoid killer penalties (granted not all of that was our fault yesterday ), or coach better in key situations . Its become a trend the last few years unfortunately, IF the team ever gets over that hump then I could see us making some real noise. Im just hoping until then this doesn’t create a locker room divide with the defense being hung out to dry time and time again.

Great analysis.

I think moral victories can be fine with us fans but I don't want the players feeling that way, especially the QB. I want them all to look at that game as a lost opportunity, get pissed about it and work hard to prevent it from happening again.

The Pats MO was thought to be an above average defense and a below average offense and right now it looks that way. If they can just improve that offense a bit they could do something this year.

 

[1960Pats]

Agreed, and just rookie mistakes. He'll get with Troy brown and correct the issues. He impressed, I'm more impressed with DD & Boutee. Far as I'm concerned I'd rather continue to go with the rookies, and let them develop than depending on TT or Parker. They are just injury prone.

Troy Brown is my favorite Pats player EVER but he's been with all the WR's for a while now.

And JuJu is no rookie but he plays like one.

 

[Real fan 02]

Troy Brown is my favorite Pats player EVER but he's been with all the WR's for a while now.

And JuJu is no rookie but he plays like one.

Yes Troy brown optimized what a patriots WR was. Jules IMO was probably the closest to Troy as a player. Juju given the weather conditions I believe it was just a wet ball drop. Juju did make some important plays later in the game.

 

[1960Pats]

Rham's long run came on this holding call. We had a 1st and 10 deep in Eagles territory. Then this:




This is my biggest qualm with the refs.

Q: Did you absolutely positively see holding?

A: Yes.

Q: Then throw the flag. Otherwise, never throw the flag.

That was holding when he pulled on the defender's shirt right as the runner was coming through. I thought it was pretty obvious.

 

[1960Pats]

Yes Troy brown optimized what a patriots WR was. Jules IMO was probably the closest to Troy as a player. Juju given the weather conditions I believe it was just a wet ball drop. Juju did make some important plays later in the game.

I heard that JuJu ran the wrong route on one play but I don't know which.

 

[patfanken]

That was holding when he pulled on the defender's shirt right as the runner was coming through. I thought it was pretty obvious.

Disagree. Yes he grabbed the shirt at the shoulder for about a second. He released it almost immediately. He didn't impede the defender AT ALL. Watch ANY play and you will see the same thing or worse NOT called 98% of the time. IIRC a holding call needs to have a defender who is IMPEDED. This guy wasn't even aware of Henry

COULD you interpret what happened to be a hold? Sure. But officials are not supposed to impose THEIR will on the game. No harm no foul SHOULD be the mantra of the refs, and on this play Henry caused zero harm to the defender.

 

[upstater1]

That was holding when he pulled on the defender's shirt right as the runner was coming through. I thought it was pretty obvious.

He let go before the defender went right. if that gets called, then you need to throw a flag every running play

 

[1960Pats]

A lot of QB's didn't look like the guy first couple of years, Josh Allen comes to mind, let's see if Mac takes a big step this year before we start looking for a replacement. Looks much better after game 1.

Allen may be reverting back to his old (young?) stupid self. Then there's Tua's concussion problems and AR's career already being over in 4 plays.

By the end of the season the Pats could have the best QB in the AFCE.

 

[1960Pats]

Disagree. Yes he grabbed the shirt at the shoulder for about a second. He released it almost immediately. He didn't impede the defender AT ALL. Watch ANY play and you will see the same thing or worse NOT called 98% of the time. IIRC a holding call needs to have a defender who is IMPEDED. This guy wasn't even aware of Henry

COULD you interpret what happened to be a hold? Sure. But officials are not supposed to impose THEIR will on the game. No harm no foul SHOULD be the mantra of the refs, and on this play Henry caused zero harm to the defender.

I actually have a post around here complaining about the inconsistency of calls from game to game. It's incredible. You would think that with all their funding the NYFL could train their officials to be more on the same page. Maybe they could show them plays like that one and let them know what is or isn't a penalty.

On that particular call I think the quick grab was timed just as the runner was going by and did impede the defenders progress. That kind of a quick grab is very effective and reminds me of the quick stiff arm to the shoulder that Revis got away with for years, well, until he joined the Pats.

 

[1960Pats]

He let go before the defender went right. if that gets called, then you need to throw a flag every running play

I think it's the jersey pull that resulted in the penalty. Even a quick pull can be easy to spot for a ref.

 

[1960Pats]

Just for reference, Mac Jones currently leads the NFL in pass attempts.

This came against a defense that ranked third all-time in the history of pro football in team sacks last season.

He got sacked twice, and once was a coverage sack that simply took too long.

Suggesting the line played poorly is just terrible analysis. They weren't perfect, but Mac threw from a lot of clean pockets yesterday.

I thought that the Pats best chance was to run the ball more than they did. Even if the running game isn't great I think it can still help the passing game, especially against such a strong pass defense as Philthy's.

 

[zydecochris]

Tua is no more talented than mac jones. if anything his arm is weaker.

he just happens to have 2 of the best WR's in the NFL. switch Mac and Tua and i guarantee the results are switched.

and thats with somehow agreeing with the notion that 300yards and 3 td's against the eagles is somehow a poor performance...

It is funny, a couple of years ago on this forum I probably read 1000 posts on how Miami couldn’t possibly beat us because “Tua sucks”. Now that Tua is lighting things up with Waddle and Hill, suddenly we are bemoaning the fact that we don’t have a top QB like Tua. And as to your point about switching receivers, we have seen Mac throw to two talented receivers like Waddle (Waddle himself for part of the year), and it was pretty awesome (44 TDS to 4INTs).

As to Tua vs Mac, I agree they are similar in talent, but Tua’s weapons at WR are vastly superior. Comparing Tua to Mac:
* Tua before injury was much more naturally talented and creative, able to make something out of nothing. He clearly beat out current NFL MVP candidate Jalen Hurts at Alabama. However, he is small for a QB, looked pretty bad early in his NFL career with poor coaching, and has been terribly injury prone and has suffered several near career ending injuries that sapped some of his natural athleticism at least early on at Miami.
* Mac was slower to physically mature, but is much bigger and finally is looking like a normal NFL athlete. Mac is extremely book smart and a fanatical worker and knew the game plan inside and out (and even taught BOB the Alabama offense during that transition period before Mac joined the Pats). Mac played as close to mistake free football of any college QB I’ve ever seen. And just like Tua he looked pretty bad with poor coaching, as we learned last year.

I would rather have Mac because his talents match the Patriot offense, he is smart and works very hard, he has NFL QB size, and he has great accuracy when he can set his feet. Plus, I’m not convinced Tua has put his serious injury behind him. However, I’ve read that Tua is in amazing shape and to his credit is taking Judo to learn how to fall without injury, so I guess we will see if he can finish a season.

 

[1960Pats]

Really Mike? Would you call what you saw from Borrows, Allen, Mahomes, Herbert or even Hurts last week, "Elite".

This is NOT a one man game! How many times to I have to point it out. Sure, having a great QB HELPS. He is the most important player on the offense. No one questions that. But without a competent OL, or WR's or RB, that offense can GRIND to a halt and force even the best QB's to look every ordinary. BUT surround them with all kinds of talent and great D's and ST to compliment them and even ordinary QB's (Purdy) can look great. BTW- having a complimentary scheme (one that matches your skill set) is a great help too.

BOTTOM line: This a TEAM game. One player cannot succeed unless there are 10 other guys pulling their weight, It is NOT just about the QB, though the media has made it that way and we as consumers of media have bought in. That is why it ceased to be about the Patriots vs the Colts and became all about Brady vs Manning. It's cool and exciting, BUT it is NOT how the game is played

And to take it to another level, which is where the mediots seem to be now, it isn't the opponents QB vs Belichick either. It's the Pats vs whatever TEAM they're playing. And the level of importance of each member of a team is subjective. Some may consider the QB more important than other positions and players more important than coaches. That's where I am.

 

[Real fan 02]

I heard that JuJu ran the wrong route on one play but I don't know which.

Yeah could be true.. he's still learning the offense.

 

[Jim Beankie]

Crazy that according to FReference Boutte's missed receptions count as official Drops. Brutal. Have to strongly disagree with that, since it messes with my perception of the stat - as in does the person have good hands as opposed to twinkle toes. The other 3 drops are the Henry and Juju brain farts along with the Bourne drop over the middle.

 

[mgteich]

We might consider that Troy Brown has NOT done a particularly good job at coaching up WR's.

 

[archstanton543]

Great analysis.

I think moral victories can be fine with us fans but I don't want the players feeling that way, especially the QB. I want them all to look at that game as a lost opportunity, get pissed about it and work hard to prevent it from happening again.

The Pats MO was thought to be an above average defense and a below average offense and right now it looks that way. If they can just improve that offense a bit they could do something this year.

I still don't get how a 3 TD 300+ yard performance is "below average".

 

[archstanton543]

We might consider that Troy Brown has NOT done a particularly good job at coaching up WR's.

I've brought his up a couple times but people don't want to hear it.

Brown is a great player...coaching? I haven't seen anything to make me think he's good at that. I mean, Ted Williams, as great as he was, sucked as a coach/manager.

 

[mike_usagisan]

I still don't get how a 3 TD 300+ yard performance is "below average".

Because if we didn't win, it's below average.