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I give the Jets a D for their draft

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by AllabouttheVinces, May 4, 2006.

  1. AllabouttheVinces

    AllabouttheVinces Rookie

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    Hi gang. I've been a long time reader of this board, but never felt the urge to post. You folks are a great source of Pats news. With all the post-draft talk and analysis, I felt it was finally time to jump in with my first post. Why? I can't believe everyone is giving the Jets high marks for their draft.

    The Jets had two gaping holes with the losses of Fabini and Mawae, so I give Mangini credit for filling those holes. In Ferguson and Mangold he got a franchise LT and a C with a potential Pro Bowl future. But if they planned all along to go QB at 35, I say they blew it big time. If they picked Leinart at 4, they had their choice at 35 for an LT of Justice, McNeil, Colledge, Whitworth, Winston or Trueblood. Those guys went between 39 and 66.

    So they passed on the franchise QB and got a franchise LT. Instead of Leinart and Justice they got Clemens and Ferguson. Huge drop-off! Check back in 2-3 years. Leinart will have AZ in the playoffs, and Clemens will be a backup. That's why I give them a "D".

    Would you trade Brady and Light to Baltimore for Boller and Ogden? Of course not! Ogden may be the best LT in the business, but you don't pass on a franchise QB. That's what the Jets just did.
  2. T-ShirtDynasty

    T-ShirtDynasty Moderator

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    It's a marathon not a sprint, Mangina is building for the future and those two first picks are a hell of a foundation for the long run. Besides, I'm betting Leinart is bustsville. :)
  3. JoeSixPat

    JoeSixPat Rookie

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    Yeah - but what round was Brady drafted in? They got their franchise QB in the 6th round. Is it so unreasonable to believe that a 2nd rounder could be a good QB too?

    There are an awful lot of "experts" out there who think that Clemens is a great value in the 2nd round and could have even risen to the 1st round.

    The Jets hope/expect that Clemens has a year to learn the system and develop before actually competing for the starter job... which is a luxury you should want to give any rookie QB - so like you say, there's really no way to truly grade this draft until a few years from now

    But if your D is based on the fact that they chose to address QB early in round 2 rather than LT early in round 2, that's a pretty big jump that assumes Clemens is a wasted pick

    by the way - welcome to the community here
    Last edited: May 4, 2006
  4. dryheat44

    dryheat44 Rookie

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    #75 Jersey

    Once again, Eric Mangini is the rookie head coach of the Jets. He is not running the draft or making personnel decisions. I'm sure he has some input, which may or may not be ignored.
  5. BelichickFan

    BelichickFan B.O. = Fugazi PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #24 Jersey

    Regarding Ferguson, never in a million years would I take a great OT over a great QB. Maybe the Jets didn't like Leinart or Cutler as great QB and if they're right, credit to them. But Ferguson isn't a great OT either IMO. A better version of Matt Light, probably, but not an all around stud like the great OT. But if you assume they weren't high on the two QB then I have no huge problem with their first round. After that is when I go "ehhh". Clemens at the top of the second round was questionable in my mind despite his rise in the days before the draft. Schlegal in the 3rd ? Yuck. Brad Smith didn't impress me for a team like the Jets who need more sure things.

    They brought some solid talent in but gave up Abraham to do it. I think they could have done a lot better by trading down several times. They could have gone down to 8-10 then gone down again with Denver.
  6. PATSNUTme

    PATSNUTme Paranoid Homer Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #75 Jersey

    It kills me to say this but I thought the JEST had a good solid draft. They did what they needed to do - get the O-line in shape.

    They had three QB's killed last year because their OL was awful. They needed to go with the best OL that they could get in the draft.

    Who really knows what any of these draftee's are going to do in the NFL. Many "franchise' QB's drafted high in the first round have turned out to be bust.
  7. BelichickFan

    BelichickFan B.O. = Fugazi PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #24 Jersey

    Here's a snipet from ProFW's Jester draft review in their pay area :

    "Addressed glaring weaknesses on offensive line with first two picks, but grossly overdrafted QB Kellen Clemens, ILB Anthony Schlegel and SS Eric Smith, in part because the Jets overvalued intangibles and saw it as important to draft players who were team captains in college with the first six picks. Yes, good character is important, but there is such a thing as being too nice and having a team that lacks a killer instinct, and the Jets are on the verge of assembling that type of roster. Clemens only had one good year of college production in a simplified offense, and Schlegel and Smith are not great athletes and do not play fast."

    Clemens' rise is the riskiest of the risky IMO. He wasn't a second round pick after the games were over. And he didn't rise based on the combine. He rose just before the draft "just because".

    ProFW gave us a B+, btw, with this summing it up :

    "Outside of drafting the first kicker off the board much sooner than expected, the Patriots did a very solid job of drafting."
  8. spacecrime

    spacecrime Rookie

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    I thought the draft was fine. Not taking a QB is not a sign of a bad draft.

    It might be the sign of a bad decision to go with noodle arm as QB, but the decision was made to go with him long before the draft.

    Having decided that, for better or worse, they drafted pretty well, I thought. Took a couple players I hoped the Pats would get. (So did Cleveland and Dallas - anyone see a trend here?)

    I think they are okay with at QB. For all the grief noodle arm gets, they have a good record with him at QB. They just haven't had much for backups. Now they have ramsey, who I think will do well away from teh Redskins. And the drafted a good QB in round 2. Ramsey was a first round pick, if you recall.

    If you go with the idea that they ar okay at QB, they drafted well. A LT is the most important player other than the QB. Need I remeind anyone about pass-rush jailbreaks agaisnst Denver a couple months ago. Could have used a top LT. Not that our backups weren't good, but a top LT is good to have.

    Hey, allabouthevinces, if you are a long time reader, why does it say you just joined?
  9. BelichickFan

    BelichickFan B.O. = Fugazi PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #24 Jersey

    I'm just not sure they drafted a good QB in round 2. It seems like he's become a good QB because he was drafted in round 2. After the season Clemens was a Day Two pick. Then he was rising into late Day One. Then there was an inexplicable surge the week before the draft. I guess if you like buying stocks high, he was a great pick. Maybe he'll be a great QB but the odds aren't great IMO. He doesn't have a great arm and at 6'2" doesn't have the growth potential of a Brady. I liked ProFW's comment in their book that said "he may be a better coach than player". Ha ha.
  10. Brady-To-Branch

    Brady-To-Branch Rookie

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    Overall, I liked what the Jests (LOL good one!) did.

    D'Brickashaw will be a much better LT than Matt Light. Mangold was the best C in the draft. Getting him means Pete Kendall moves back to his natural G position. Kellen Clemens is an interesting prospect. Here's what Patriots Football Weekly said about him...

    http://www.patriots.com/search/index.cfm?ac=searchdetail&pid=16126&pcid=46&special_section=draft2006

    OTOH, Pats FW gushed over Oliver Hoyte and Andre Hall, neither of whom were drafted.

    Then again, Clemens got ripped in Ourlads.
  11. AllabouttheVinces

    AllabouttheVinces Rookie

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    Hey, spacecrime. I've followed the board a long time. Ian would call me a lurker. Just registered today. This is a great board because of the knowledgable fans. Like this simple thread....a bunch of people pointed out that my opinion is based really on my evaluation of Leinart. If he's a bust, then the Jets deserve high marks. If he is a star, this draft will haunt a LOT of teams. Jets, Raiders, Bills, Lions. That's why this week's grades from all the so-called experts are meaningless. As so many posters have pointed out, the real grades for the '06 draft don't come out for a few years.
  12. patchick

    patchick Moderatrix Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I think this says it all. The talent they took is very good and should improve the club. The only thing that keeps their draft from being a clear slam dunk is the fact that Leinart was hanging around. Leinart was the most NFL-ready QB prospect in ages; Clemens was widely reported to have the best arm in the draft. If you really feel good about Pennington & Ramsay for a couple of years, it's a reasonable decision.

    Of course, we have the benefit of hindsight. If the Jets could have known that they'd have their choice of any tackle other than Ferguson in round 2 they might well have gone with the QB in round 1.
  13. BelichickFan

    BelichickFan B.O. = Fugazi PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #24 Jersey

    NFL Draft Scout gave the Jesters an "A" but this is what they say about Clemens :

    "Oregon's Kellen Clemens rode a rocket up to the second round after being projected by many as a late round pick only a few months earlier. His accuracy and poise in the pocket makes him a quality developmental prospect, though he likely would have been available later."

    People laugh at those who rise at the combine. But how about those, like Clemens, who rise simply by waiting for the draft . . .
  14. T-ShirtDynasty

    T-ShirtDynasty Moderator

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    Right, right... I was more referring to the whole new regime over there. Didn't Bradway still have his hand in this draft as well? I thought they kept him on as a 'consultant' for this last draft. If he did still have a hand in it, such a strong draft for them is even more amazing. ;)
  15. BelichickFan

    BelichickFan B.O. = Fugazi PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #24 Jersey

    :confused:

    Not sure who reported that but Clemens is a Pennington type. Good accuracy and leadership but a questionable arm at the NFL level.
  16. Bostonian1962

    Bostonian1962 Rookie

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    I dislike the Jets, but have to respectfully disagree. When you get the best left OT and C in the draft, you already are not in the D range. Secondly, I watched much of the Combine drills/workouts etc. I came away HIGHLY impressed with Clemens. If he can read defenses, he's going to be a starter for a long time. Time will tell, as I always say.
  17. patchick

    patchick Moderatrix Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Huh, you're right. Somehow I was sure that leading up to the draft I kept reading that Clemens was rising fast because he was the best, most accurate pure passer (not arm, maybe) in the nation. But now I have no clue where I saw it. Can anybody confirm whether I was hallucinating?
  18. dryheat44

    dryheat44 Rookie

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    #75 Jersey

    Wasn't really speaking specifically to you or anyone else. It's amazing how many things we read, on this board and on actually journalism sites (Dr. Z, I'm looking in your direction) words to the effect of "Eric Mangini is rebuilding the Jets in the image of the Patriots".
  19. the taildragger

    the taildragger Rookie

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    I saw tannenbaum last night, and he wasn't any more impressive than mangina.

    I'm surprised by how completely the Jets fans and media trust him, simply because of the affiliation with BB (even though he has zero track record, and 2% of the experience that BB has) -- but after Herm, everything looks twice as good. Miami is lucky, they got the real deal with Saban, but I predict Mangini will bust.

    Most won't admit it, but if Herm was calling the shots, most fans would've had serious questions about this draft (passing on the big names like Bush/Leinart for a potentially overrated LT and a solid, if not spectacular center).

    Initially I was concerned they'd pick up Mario, but now Peyton has to deal with him instead.

    LT is a key position obviously, but I'd hate to take an O-lineman at #4 unless he's the 2nd coming of Willie Roaf, and I just don't see that. But knowing how vulnerable they were up front (we ran over them like Amtrak), they were desperate to address the trenches.

    However this class turns out, the Jets are not a team that is ready to contend, and I wouldn't be at all surprised to see another four win season.

    TBH, I'm hoping we can arrange a forfeiture of those two games.
    Last edited: May 4, 2006
  20. BelichickFan

    BelichickFan B.O. = Fugazi PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #24 Jersey

    Yeah, I saw him too. He seemed really impressed that when Clemens was hurt he came back out on a cart to help call the plays the rest of a game. That's a nice little fan story but it wasn't an overly strong reason for reaching for a late riser IMO.

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