How has Jake Bequette been doing?

[Bruins29]

Bequette is just another one of Belichick's blunders. The Patriots are good at wheeling and dealing, and moving around the draft board, but they're average at best when selecting players.

Which teams have you compared them to?

 

[Ring 6]

Bequette is just another one of Belichick's blunders. The Patriots are good at wheeling and dealing, and moving around the draft board, but they're average at best when selecting players.

I'm not sure 'blunder' is quite the right word.
Bequette was drafted #90
The last 10 #90 picks before that:
Curtis Marsh
Taylor Price
Chris Owens
Marcus Harrison
Tony Hunt
Maurice Stovall
Jordan Beck
Matt Schaub
Donald Stickland
Seth McKinney

Aside from Schaub there arguably isnt a good pick on the list.
I think your expectations of a guy picked #90 are too high.

 

[PatFanCraig]

me too, watch him have another great QB and everyone will say oh he just got lucky twice in a row

Bellichick was VERY luck selecting Brady! If he would have had half of a clue that Brady had a good shot at being better than Bledsoe much less the best QB ever, is there any way on earth he would have waited til round6.

 

[Deus Irae]

Ur not an idiot Deus. You know exactly "what" about it. Stop playing games.

I wasn't playing games. Just saying "2008" is meaningless. In 2007, the Patriots fielded arguably the greatest team in the history of the NFL, went 16-0 in the regular season, and came within less than 3 minutes of becoming the only team in NFL history to go 19-0.

In 2008, the Patriots failed to make the playoffs.

So, again, what about it?

 

[Deus Irae]

this argument above me is why i desperately want to see BB coach well beyond Brady......which i think he will.....and then i'll find out the answer

There are 3 layers that serve as a huge help for BB the general manager (and at least one - average original draft position - that serves as a major impediment), which is part of what makes it so difficult to nail down exactly where BB belongs among GMs:

1.) Has Brady as his QB
2.) Has Bill Belichick as his H.C.
3.) Has a team playing in the AFCE, which has largely been down for over a decade

Comparing BB the GM to someone like, for example, Kevin Colbert, becomes almost an impossible task as a result. Is BB a good GM overall? That seems like the answer would be an undeniable "yes". Is he the best, or among the top 2-3, or the most successful, nevermind "by far the most successful"? That's much more questionable, and gets into a lot of different variables.

 

[captain stone]

Exactly, and this whole "Bill's drafting at the bottom of every round" excuse is BS. Except for one
player in the first round whom he does not have a chance to pick, Bill can draft every other player available in every other round.
Think of it like this: take away those unavailable first-rounders, and Bill's drafting at the top of every other round thereafter.

 

[james87654]

There are 3 layers that serve as a huge help for BB the general manager (and at least one - average original draft position - that serves as a major impediment), which is part of what makes it so difficult to nail down exactly where BB belongs among GMs:

1.) Has Brady as his QB
2.) Has Bill Belichick as his H.C.
3.) Has a team playing in the AFCE, which has largely been down for over a decade

Comparing BB the GM to someone like, for example, Kevin Colbert, becomes almost an impossible task as a result. Is BB a good GM overall? That seems like the answer would be an undeniable "yes". Is he the best, or among the top 2-3, or the most successful, nevermind "by far the most successful"? That's much more questionable, and gets into a lot of different variables.

i'll concede that BB has made mistakes as a GM and while i think he is above average as a GM, beyond that, its hard to guage.....his lack of nabbing a decent outside WR bothered me.....even moss was different, an anomaly, not a real physical outside WR.....i wanted him to get more aggressive with coverage and the front seven years ago.....but maybe his poor DB drafting precluded that......

the biggest reason that im a BB homer is that i think we would get along and be friends if we were peers......that would never be the case, as he is older than my father was.....but it still makes me like him.....same with popovich.....

i think he is exceptional at being the head coach of a football team and knowing when to delegate and when to get hands on.....i dont think anyone in this era can match his skills at overall coaching and running a team

i like brady......i think you can make the case for him as GOAT along with montana, elway, and even peyton.....he doesnt seem to have the same "swagger" to me that he had when he was younger....i cant quite put my finger on it

i dont know the X's and O's all that well.....i have thought about getting the all 22 film but im not sure if its worth the time and effort to try to learn

just my opinion

 

[meatface]

Bellichick was VERY luck selecting Brady! If he would have had half of a clue that Brady had a good shot at being better than Bledsoe much less the best QB ever, is there any way on earth he would have waited til round6.

I know, im just going with the idea that BB haters would dismiss his success

 

[Ring 6]

Exactly, and this whole "Bill's drafting at the bottom of every round" excuse is BS. Except for one
player in the first round whom he does not have a chance to pick, Bill can draft every other player available in every other round.
Think of it like this: take away those unavailable first-rounders, and Bill's drafting at the top of every other round thereafter.

You are kidding right?
You want him to have no first rounders and draft better than everyone else?

 

[mgteich]

I agree. It is hard to judge Belichick as a GM, independent of ownership and coaching.

We have one of the best owners in the history of sports. We have the one of the best QB's and one of the best coaches in the history of the game (and one of the best position coaches in history into scar retired).
=============
If Belichick were the GM of say Carolina for the last 12 years (and not the coach), what we think of Belichick the GM?

I think that Belichick is a GM/coach and that it difficult to separate the roles. Belichick the GM drafts (and trades and signs free agents) will full buy in from the coach. There is no conflict.

Personally, I think that Belichick is top 10 as a GM, but probably not top 3. It is difficult to be a top drafter when you almost always pick at the bottom of the rounds. Of course, picking at the bottom means that you are a top GM. There have been many, many evaluations of drafting by different teams.
The patriots almost always come in the top group when 5 or 10 years are judged. This is exceptional, given where we draft. I think that the example of this thread is a good one. Bequette is terrible, a bust. Yet, as andy pointed out, when we look at those players picked at the same position over the years, there is only arguably only one hit. I think that we simply WANT more than we get, and have no NEED to be reasonable in our expectations.

There are 3 layers that serve as a huge help for BB the general manager (and at least one - average original draft position - that serves as a major impediment), which is part of what makes it so difficult to nail down exactly where BB belongs among GMs:

1.) Has Brady as his QB
2.) Has Bill Belichick as his H.C.
3.) Has a team playing in the AFCE, which has largely been down for over a decade

Comparing BB the GM to someone like, for example, Kevin Colbert, becomes almost an impossible task as a result. Is BB a good GM overall? That seems like the answer would be an undeniable "yes". Is he the best, or among the top 2-3, or the most successful, nevermind "by far the most successful"? That's much more questionable, and gets into a lot of different variables.

 

[mgteich]

I don't think that it is unreasonable to consider that the patriots pick at the top of every round, other then the 1st, and that we should expect our picks to be as good as anyone else's (not including their first round picks).

The point made is that we might consider our end of the round picks as first of the next round. If we evaluate our bottom of the 3rd picks, are they as good as others' 4th round picks? I think that the answer is a resounding "yes".

The open question is how the patriots do when they draft after the first round, compared to other teams drafting at similar positions. I think that it is clear that Belichick does well in the 1st. Curiously, this is Belichick's stated policy. He plays safe in the first (and succeeds) and takes lots of risks in the 2nd and 3rd (and often misses). Belichick CHOOSES to make "risky" choices in the 2nd and 3rd rounds. As almost all of us know, the draft is a crapshoot after the 3rd round. Of course, some will criticize Belichick for choosing the wrong UDFA's and missing out on starters (this year we have missed out on starting TE's and RB's, NOT).

You are kidding right?
You want him to have no first rounders and draft better than everyone else?

 

[RayClay]

I don't think that it is unreasonable to consider that the patriots pick at the top of every round, other then the 1st, and that we should expect our picks to be as good as anyone else's (not including their first round picks).

The point made is that we might consider our end of the round picks as first of the next round. If we evaluate our bottom of the 3rd picks, are they as good as others' 4th round picks? I think that the answer is a resounding "yes".

The open question is how the patriots do when they draft after the first round, compared to other teams drafting at similar positions. I think that it is clear that Belichick does well in the 1st. Curiously, this is Belichick's stated policy. He plays safe in the first (and succeeds) and takes lots of risks in the 2nd and 3rd (and often misses). Belichick CHOOSES to make "risky" choices in the 2nd and 3rd rounds. As almost all of us know, the draft is a crapshoot after the 3rd round. Of course, some will criticize Belichick for choosing the wrong UDFA's and missing out on starters (this year we have missed out on starting TE's and RB's, NOT).

It's beyond unreasonable.

 

[Ring 6]

I don't think that it is unreasonable to consider that the patriots pick at the top of every round, other then the 1st, and that we should expect our picks to be as good as anyone else's (not including their first round picks).

The point made is that we might consider our end of the round picks as first of the next round. If we evaluate our bottom of the 3rd picks, are they as good as others' 4th round picks? I think that the answer is a resounding "yes".

The open question is how the patriots do when they draft after the first round, compared to other teams drafting at similar positions. I think that it is clear that Belichick does well in the 1st. Curiously, this is Belichick's stated policy. He plays safe in the first (and succeeds) and takes lots of risks in the 2nd and 3rd (and often misses). Belichick CHOOSES to make "risky" choices in the 2nd and 3rd rounds. As almost all of us know, the draft is a crapshoot after the 3rd round. Of course, some will criticize Belichick for choosing the wrong UDFA's and missing out on starters (this year we have missed out on starting TE's and RB's, NOT).

You think it is reasonable to say we draft at the top of every round but don't have a first and should draft as well as everyone else?
Who drafts well without a first round pick?

 

[mgteich]

I think that we should draft as well with our picks as other teams do in their NON-FIRST round picks.
Consider our drafts compared to other teams, excluding THEIR firsts round picks. You exclude our 7th.
So we usually have 6 picks (1-6) and the comparison teams have 6 picks (1-6). Should we do as well as they do with those picks.

I think that we draft better than HOU when you exclude THEIR first round picks. Do you disagree

You think it is reasonable to say we draft at the top of every round but don't have a first and should draft as well as everyone else?
Who drafts well without a first round pick?

 

[ATippett56]

Eight of the starters on the Seattle Seahawks defense were originally drafted by the Seattle Seahawks. Only two of the starters on the Seattle Seahawks defense were first round selections. Seven of the starters on the Seattle Seahawks defense were drafted since 2010.

http://www.pro-football-reference.c...os=ALL&college_id=all&conference=any&show=all

http://www.seahawks.com/team/depth-chart.html

 

[Deus Irae]

I think that we should draft as well with our picks as other teams do in their NON-FIRST round picks.
Consider our drafts compared to other teams, excluding THEIR firsts round picks. You exclude our 7th.
So we usually have 6 picks (1-6) and the comparison teams have 6 picks (1-6). Should we do as well as they do with those picks.

I think that we draft better than HOU when you exclude THEIR first round picks. Do you disagree

Just to point out the obvious....
If you take your approach, the Patriots are drafting in the top 5, in a 6 round draft, almost every year.

 

[Ring 6]

I think that we should draft as well with our picks as other teams do in their NON-FIRST round picks.
Consider our drafts compared to other teams, excluding THEIR firsts round picks. You exclude our 7th.
So we usually have 6 picks (1-6) and the comparison teams have 6 picks (1-6). Should we do as well as they do with those picks.

I think that we draft better than HOU when you exclude THEIR first round picks. Do you disagree

That wasn't what the poster was saying

 

[BradyFTW!]

Bellichick was VERY luck selecting Brady! If he would have had half of a clue that Brady had a good shot at being better than Bledsoe much less the best QB ever, is there any way on earth he would have waited til round6.

Well sure, if anyone had known how good Brady would be he would have been #1 overall. But what matters is that the Pats did pick him, because Belichick was the first one to wise up and disregard the Henson controversy and his ****ty combine and just pick the guy based on how good he was on the field.

Should every team that finds studs after the first round have their acumen discounted because, if they'd known how good the guy would be, they would've just picked him in the first? That's stupid, and you should know better.

 

[BradyFTW!]

You think it is reasonable to say we draft at the top of every round but don't have a first and should draft as well as everyone else?
Who drafts well without a first round pick?

I guess he's saying that our first round picks should be as good as other teams' second round picks, our second round picks should be as good as their thirds, etc. I may be totally off, there, but if he's not saying that then I really dunno what he's trying to say.

Which... fine, okay, I guess that sorta makes sense. But my response would be that our first round picks ARE better than everyone else's second round picks, our second round picks are better than their third round picks, etc. etc., right down the line. That should generally be true for most teams, and it definitely is true for the Pats. As much as people crap on our second round picks, that's where we got Gronk, Vollmer, and Collins. That's a good haul over the past 5 years, and will look even better if Dobson pans out. Even if there are a handful of Dowlings, Butlers, and Chungs in the mix. It's pretty clear that the Pats hit a rough patch in the draft from 2005-2008 or so, but they've been very good at worst since then.

Secondly, I wish people wouldn't get so caught up in Pete Carroll's drafting. Yeah, when you've spent the last 10 years coaching/coaching against these guys, and scouted/recruited them through high school, you have an advantage. I believe that this past draft class was the first that he never scouted/recruited, since he's now been in the NFL long enough for that advantage to be basically gone. We'll see how he does going forward.

 

[ATippett56]

Well sure, if anyone had known how good Brady would be he would have been #1 overall. But what matters is that the Pats did pick him, because Belichick was the first one to wise up and disregard the Henson controversy and his ****ty combine and just pick the guy based on how good he was on the field.

Should every team that finds studs after the first round have their acumen discounted because, if they'd known how good the guy would be, they would've just picked him in the first? That's stupid, and you should know better.

As for "studs" in the first round, the New England Patriots have five starters on defense that were originally selected in the first round:

Wilfork
Mayo
McCourty
Jones, Chandler
Hightower

In addition, the New England Patriots have three defensive players, currently on the roster, that were originally selected in the second round:

Chung
Wilson, Tavon
Collins