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how big of a hit will the franchise tag on Samuel cost the pats?

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by Gunnails, Feb 24, 2007.

  1. Gunnails

    Gunnails Rookie

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    I know the Pats have lots of cap, I was wondering if the tag would adversely affect the Pats somehow (hope).
  2. DaBruinz

    DaBruinz Pats, B's, Sox PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Why would it adversely affect the Patriots? Tagging Samuel lets him know that they think very highly of him and that they want to reach a long term deal that is mutally agreeable. It also says that Samuel is free to find another offer if he feels he can't reach a deal with the Pats.
  3. BelichickFan

    BelichickFan B.O. = Fugazi PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Almost $8M of our available $26M or so. Everything hurts but we have lots of $$$ available with or without Samuel.
  4. MoLewisrocks

    MoLewisrocks PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Actually once they add in the LTBE's and make any other adjustments which hadn't been made yet last week, it will be more like $7.8M of our $30M+. And I still think it will cost $0M since we will trade him pre draft.

    Which is better than what the Colts are facing with Freeney. His exclusive tag and prior amortization will take about $10.5M off their $15M or so. And reports on Indy Star last night were that NFLN is claiming he wants $9M per AND a $30M signing bonus in a long term deal. :eek: They should have let him shop himself for some nice inexpensive cap friendly picks.
    Last edited: Feb 24, 2007
  5. PatsFanInVa

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    In other words, $7.9M if he plays the season under the franchised tag. Everything else depends on how greedy he gets/how cheap the Pats are (depending on point of view.) The reality is, everything else depends on whether his expectations and the Pats' valuation are a match.

    PFnV
  6. BradyManny

    BradyManny Rookie

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    This might go without saying, but unless we can get a Thomas or a Fletcher, it makes just as much sense to pay Asante the 8 mill to play this year, as we won't be able to spend the $ elsewhere. I think best case scenario is we do trade Asante for picks and are able to spend that 8 mill elsewhere, namely the LB position.
  7. signbabybrady

    signbabybrady On the Roster

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    I think Best case scenario is keep a$ante and spend the rest of the money elsewhere namely LB. not sure how youcan say best case includes losing A$ante.
  8. MoLewisrocks

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    All I know is they offered him $7.5M in signing bonus in November after which talks broke off. He wanted $10M+ AT THAT POINT, and will likely want and possibly command more, maybe as much as $12-15M in signing bonus as a FA.

    I listened to BB talk about Asante on WEEI the week after the AFCC, and while he values/appreciates him and feels he has talent and has worked hard to get to this point, he also clearly feels he is a player who benefits from top coaching and playing around similarly well coached players in this scheme. That indicates to me that we are simply not going to overpay for the player, and almost $8M for one year is an overpay for this player. That $7.5M was an indication they believed he was a $5M+/- player in November, and while they may feel he's more now, I don't think it's $3M more.

    And as for getting a long term deal done, once he's heard what his agent is hearing as he shops the player, and sees the offers Clements is mulling, no way he signs a long term deal here IMO. In fact I wouldn't be surprised to hear the talk shift to potential to hold out within the next month as a prelude to a trade.
  9. patsfanofNC12

    patsfanofNC12 Rookie

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    Asante is worth the money, and we still have lots more. Plus so far we kept him out of the hands of the jets, dolphins, and :rocker:
  10. Jimke

    Jimke Rookie

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    Before we re-sign and trade Asante, who the hell is going to

    play cornerback for us if he leaves?
    Last edited: Feb 24, 2007
  11. Box_O_Rocks

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    Bam Childress.
  12. MoLewisrocks

    MoLewisrocks PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I have no idea, but I had no idea who Mike Vrabel was when Bill scooped him and no idea how significant Rodney would become when Bill had everyone scratching their heads asking WTF he would play with Tebucky and Lawyer ensconsed as the starting safeties of a Superbowl Champion. Although that made a lot more sense after Tebucky was traded (while tagged) and Lawyer was released - because each wanted to be paid more than they were worth.
  13. AndyJohnson

    AndyJohnson PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

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    The first year cap number on a long term deal will be a ton less than the tag #.

    Just to throw huges numbers out there:
    If he signed for 5 yrs, got a 12mill signing bonus, and a 35 mill contract.
    The first year salary would be 1 mill max.
    That would be a 3.4 mill first year cap hit, saving almost 4.5 mill.
    In this made up extreme example, he would have salaries over the next 4 years totalling 22 mill, plus a 2.4mill per year sb amortization.
    That is STILL only an AVERAGE in the 2nd-4th years of the cap hit of the tag.


    Can we please dispense with the 'he wont get that here' comments as if the Patriots dont want good players?
    BB has made decisions over 6 years of rarely having much if any cap room. He still has paid top dollar to numerous players during his tenure (Law, mcGinest, Brady, Seymour, Colvin, and others)

    If your point is that Samuel is not as good as the contract he wants, that is one matter.
    If you are saying Samuel is one of the best corners in the NFL, so he can't be a Pat because they wont pay the best players what the best players cost, yousimply do not have your facts straight.
  14. shirtsleeve

    shirtsleeve Rookie

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    Well, first, the best case is that Asante signs a deal and stays, and saves us room against the cap, while still taking a hell of a pay raise.

    Rumors I heard were that he wants 15-18mil up front, and 10 mil a year.
    Last I heard the Pats were in the 8-10mil up front and 7 mil a year range. Thats a big gap.
  15. Jimke

    Jimke Rookie

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    I disagree with the poster who thinks BB can reach into a hat and

    pull out a cornerback equivalent to Asante Samuel. In 2005, when

    he reached into the hat to replace Ted Johnson and Tedy Bruschi,

    out came Monte Beisel and Chad Brown.
  16. PatsFanInVa

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    Well, that's a big "duh." Troy Brown.
  17. salty

    salty Rookie

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    And lets not forget Duane Starks. (Actually, lets do forget him, please.)

    I'm not sure that Samuel is worth the kind of money that I suspect he and his agent are asking for, but the Patriots have nothing else at the position right now. I think they need to keep him for this year and draft somebody to take over for him in '08, if they can't get a long term deal locked up.
  18. solman

    solman Rookie

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    Who was going to play corner back for us at this time in 2006? Asante was a nobody then.

    Hopefully he really is as good as he was in 2006, and we can sign him to a long term deal.

    But if not, who is to say that Hobbs or Gay won't have a similar breakout year in 2007 if given the opportunity.
  19. MoLewisrocks

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    This isn't about cap, Andy. Or about cheap. It's about value and what he values. Bill never knowingly overpays for talent no matter the need. I don't think he believes Asante Samuel is in the same area code as the guys he coached at the Pro Bowl, and appreciates the system can make it appear that way. I also don't think he believes we need that talent level because it's not the way this team is constructed. We just need competent quality corners. If we could get or retain better than competent for a value price that would be great. But competent quality for all pro prices - not gonna happen IMO. If he were going to revise the system to feature shutdown corners he would pay top dollar for top talent like the guys he coached at the pro bowl. Like he said to Ed Reed during that game, if he had Ed and those two corners (Bailey and Mathis) that's all he'd need - all.

    BTW Law was signed before BB's watch. And the cap dictated he remain until it dictated he couldn't. So was MacGinest, and he did enough restructures to keep his job in the BB era so he never made top dollar on Bill's watch. Brady has yet to make top dollar, and he certainly could command it and is worth it. Seymour took a small discount - basically realized when he signed a 3 year $30M extension a year early so his AAV cost over the 4 years is $8M (Freeney is looking for $30M in signing bonus alone in FA). Colvin signed for the average of what top end OLB's were getting at the time, not top dollar or a premium. These guys are in lynchpin positions on a BB team. Asante isn't. We've won with retreads and rookies and journeymen manning the corners. BB builds from the trenches out, DL, LB, S, CB in that order.

    I think the team knew who and what Asante was in November and what his market would likely be. I look at what they offered him then and I think they think he's a competent corner and a ballhawk whose skills work well in this system. I doubt they will bridge the gap, and I don't believe they should just to retain him unless they believe he's abn emerging shut down, leave who will allow them to spend a little less elsewhere. I think fans are a little squirrley about the alternatives since the Starks fiasco, but even in spite of it we were a few fumbles and a pick and a missed FG from hosting the AFCC that season. And we lost the AFCC this year because of a defensive collapse that the corners, including Asante, couldn't stave off even though they played brilliantly.
  20. solman

    solman Rookie

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    Bill understands opportunity cost. If we don't go out and get more talent this year, we'll be wasting a year of Tom Brady in his prime.

    Until last year, Bill was never faced with this sort of situation, and he probably wishes he'd been able to land that one extra player (Branch or Law) last year that might have gotten us to a fourth world championship.

    Bill would choose to modestly over pay for a player if the value squandered was smaller than the opportunity cost of not making a move.

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