History proves if anyone, Peyton, not Brady, is more of a system quaterback.

[PatriotSeven]

It kind of irks me a bit seeing this still pop even today, mainly on the Broncos forum now, about Brady being a system QB, something that started when he first joined this league but couldn't be more wrong today in 2014.

Yes in fact, he started off as a game manager. As opposed to pick throwers like Luck and Manning who keep going home in their first years in the playoffs because they believe they should wait 3 years before they have to learn the basics because as top picks they have earned the right to fling it carelessly as much as they want and have the luxury of wearing the franchise tag from day 1 not fearing being benched. But that's a different debate.

I think anyone that's actually taken the time to look at these two QB's careers, as well as team histories couldn't possibly come to a different conclusion when the facts clearly show it.

What I see Peyton doing in Denver isn't different at all from what he was doing in Indianapolis. A very eerily similar offense, requiring 3 very good wide receivers, and a Manning-tailored personal offensive play calling system, with an ever diminishing running game(on a John Fox coached team!!!). He took HIS offense with him, and basically transformed Denver's offense into Indy's old offense. That's more or less what I'm seeing.


Perhaps those that keep pointing out that Bill seemed to have had his number is because despite different coaches, teams or offensive coordinators, he knows Peyton's offense. Not that Peyton hasn't been extremely successful, but perhaps it wouldn't hurt if he tried something different when he faces Bellichick.(Although personally I prefer him having his revelation after this week)


On the other hand, if we were to look at the offensive systems Brady and this team has had, without going into technical details, it's easy to see the transformations this offense has been through. Brady's gone from quarterbacking your typical game managing, balanced offense with a good run game in his early years, to the high flying vertical attack during the Randy Moss eras, to the 2-tight end based short passing, high tempo offense of the Gronk/Hernadez era, to going trough at least a combination of all 3 this year and ending up going full circle to now be playing game manager at the end of a season behind Blount.

Despite the fact that he's stayed with the same coach, he's constantly had to adjust, retool and execute different offensive philosophies. We have had clear and factual proof of Brady running different offenses, with different offensive philosophies, and very, very different personnel. On the other hand, despite even a drastic change as a new team and coaching staff, Petyon certainly seems to still be running the same system.

So yeah.

 

[Guts]

Brady calls play at the LOS better than Manning as well. You just don't see him screaming on the top of his lungs so everyone can hear him yell omaha

 

[PATS16N0]

Yup.

Great post.

I made the same argument last year at NFL.com.

Brady has played in so many different types of offenses. Manning basically brought Indy's offense with him to Denver.

 

[PatriotSeven]

Brady calls play at the LOS better than Manning as well. You just don't see him screaming on the top of his lungs so everyone can hear him yell omaha

I personally feel they are both fantastic at it. Brady just seems to be able to do the same thing without needing to look like a total goofball and taking all 25 seconds to snap the ball

I don't even care to start which guy is better overall debate, but this system QB BS needs to stop, and if used, at least pin it on the right guy as backed up by facts.

 

[Efstratios]

Outside of the internet, I haven't met many people who use this argument, as commonplace as it may be. What I have encountered a lot of however, is the "Brady has Belichick. Manning doesn't." defense, which basically makes the same argument. It's either that, or the "Brady has had a better roster to work with" card.

 

[PatriotSeven]

Outside of the internet, I haven't met many people who use this argument, as commonplace as it may be. What I have encountered a lot of however, is the "Brady has Belichick. Manning doesn't." defense, which basically makes the same argument. It's either that, or the "Brady has had a better roster to work with" card.

Yeah and like I said, perhaps part of the reason is....Bill's not so stupid to fall for the flailing chicken dances and Omaha calls in the backfield Peyton has been doing for years. Maybe he ought to try and put his genius together with his OC and work together to come up with something different, instead of undermining them and basically taking over their jobs. But hey, what do I know. I'm just a fan.

All I know is that in reference to that excuse, right now Peyton has no excuses left because he has the IDEAL coach in John Fox. A guy who knows how to build defenses and a running game in John Fox. This is ALL he did in Carolina for the better part of a decade. And he has played against Bill and Brady in a Superbowl, no less. He freaking helped retool a rushing offense on the fly for Tebow to get to a playoff win and amass the #1 rushing attack in the NFL. But will Peyton wake up and take advantage of that? So far, they're looking more and more like Indy and Peyton seems to have wanted more and more control to do his thing.

 

[Efstratios]

Yeah and like I said, perhaps part of the reason is....Bill's not so stupid to fall for the flailing chicken dances and Omaha calls in the backfield Peyton has been doing for years. Maybe he ought to try and put his genius together with his OC and work together to come up with something different, instead of undermining them and basically taking over their jobs. But hey, what do I know. I'm just a fan.

All I know is that in reference to that excuse, right now Peyton has no excuses left because he has the IDEAL coach in John Fox. A guy who knows how to build defenses and a running game in John Fox. This is ALL he did in Carolina for the better part of a decade. And he has played against Bill and Brady in a Superbowl, no less. He freaking helped retool a rushing offense on the fly for Tebow to get to a playoff win and amass the #1 rushing attack in the NFL. But will Peyton wake up and take advantage of that? So far, they're looking more and more like Indy and Peyton seems to have wanted more and more control to do his thing.

What's really infuriating about this, is that I've actually met people who are dense enough to claim that Manning has had to "adapt" to a new offense in Denver. Honestly, the only person who could make this argument, is someone who has never watched the Broncos play a single game over the last two seasons.

 

[Palm Beach Pats Fan]

Defense, which basically makes the same argument. It's either that, or the "Brady has had a better roster to work with" card.

When you hear someone say that Manning never had a defense, ask them how he would have fared with the #1 defense in the entire NFL.

Whatever they say, then point them to stats for 2007, when the Indianapolis Colts had the #1 defense in the NFL (#1 in fewest yards allowed; they were 3rd in points allowed).

People are stunned to know that.

It needs to be known, and widely.

Because it blows away the single biggest excuse made for Manning's failures

Granted, their defense choked and couldn't stop Billy Volek, but a certain QB also threw two costly interceptions and had a lower passer rating than either Rivers or Volek.

 

[PatriotSeven]

What's really infuriating about this, is that I've actually met people who are dense enough to claim that Manning has had to "adapt" to a new offense in Denver. Honestly, the only person who could make this argument, is someone who has never watched the Broncos play a single game over the last two seasons.

Or a young Broncos fan who never watched Peyton in Indy.

 

[upstater1]

Neither is a system QB. If these guys were system QBs, after 13 or 15 years, and no one managed to copy the systems of the two-best QBs of the period, that woud make every football coach in America (except those coaching Manning and Brady) absolute dunces.

If they are system QBs, then presumably the system could be reproduced elsewhere.

Isn't that what a system QB is? Someone who is nothing really special but who for some reason excels because of the system?

If you QB at such a high level for so many years, that argument deteriorates.

What system was Marino in? Montana? Etc.

 

[elway7]

It kind of irks me a bit seeing this still pop even today, mainly on the Broncos forum now, about Brady being a system QB, something that started when he first joined this league but couldn't be more wrong today in 2014.

Yes in fact, he started off as a game manager. As opposed to pick throwers like Luck and Manning who keep going home in their first years in the playoffs because they believe they should wait 3 years before they have to learn the basics because as top picks they have earned the right to fling it carelessly as much as they want and have the luxury of wearing the franchise tag from day 1 not fearing being benched. But that's a different debate.

I think anyone that's actually taken the time to look at these two QB's careers, as well as team histories couldn't possibly come to a different conclusion when the facts clearly show it.

What I see Peyton doing in Denver isn't different at all from what he was doing in Indianapolis. A very eerily similar offense, requiring 3 very good wide receivers, and a Manning-tailored personal offensive play calling system, with an ever diminishing running game(on a John Fox coached team!!!). He took HIS offense with him, and basically transformed Denver's offense into Indy's old offense. That's more or less what I'm seeing.


Perhaps those that keep pointing out that Bill seemed to have had his number is because despite different coaches, teams or offensive coordinators, he knows Peyton's offense. Not that Peyton hasn't been extremely successful, but perhaps it wouldn't hurt if he tried something different when he faces Bellichick.(Although personally I prefer him having his revelation after this week)


On the other hand, if we were to look at the offensive systems Brady and this team has had, without going into technical details, it's easy to see the transformations this offense has been through. Brady's gone from quarterbacking your typical game managing, balanced offense with a good run game in his early years, to the high flying vertical attack during the Randy Moss eras, to the 2-tight end based short passing, high tempo offense of the Gronk/Hernadez era, to going trough at least a combination of all 3 this year and ending up going full circle to now be playing game manager at the end of a season behind Blount.

Despite the fact that he's stayed with the same coach, he's constantly had to adjust, retool and execute different offensive philosophies. We have had clear and factual proof of Brady running different offenses, with different offensive philosophies, and very, very different personnel. On the other hand, despite even a drastic change as a new team and coaching staff, Petyon certainly seems to still be running the same system.

So yeah.

More Manning news here than anywhere else. I like it!

 

[Fixit]

What I see Peyton doing in Denver isn't different at all from what he was doing in Indianapolis. A very eerily similar offense, requiring 3 very good wide receivers, and a Manning-tailored personal offensive play calling system, with an ever diminishing running game(on a John Fox coached team!!!). He took HIS offense with him, and basically transformed Denver's offense into Indy's old offense. That's more or less what I'm seeing.

It looks the same because it is. I read a couple articles about Denver implementing the same system Manning ran in Indy, as opposed to learning a new system like most other people do.

 

[PATS16N0]

The fact is if you ever press one of Brady's attackers to define what a "system quarterback is" they look at you with a blank stare. It's just a slanderous talking point.

The same person that says Brady is a system quarterback will say that when they want to diminish Brady, then they'll say Belichick only wins because he has a HoF quarterback when they want to attack Belichick.

I wrote a great "World According to Patriot Haters" post at NFL.com pointing out all the hilarious contradictions in ******ed Patriot hater arguments, I wish I saved it.

Sports is now political. Not in the sense that it has an ideology, but that it has what equates to "parties," and one party, when it doesn't have truth on its side, will simply bend and warp reality until they think they do.

The people who say **** like "Peyton is GOAT because he had neck surgery," or "Peyton is amazing because he could be the only one to win a Superbowl on two different teams" are people who liked Peyton and hated Brady 10 years ago. History hasn't played out in a way that fits their wants and so we have to hear stuff like this that would only and should only convince a child.

If Brady was put on Seattle he would be the first quarterback to ever win A DYNASTY on two different football teams. Send him to the Niners after that and he'll do it again.

It's not that impressive. Denver had the talent to go to the Divisional Round with Tim freaking Tebow. The team was there. His neck surgery doesn't make him GOAT. His play off record isn't remotely as close to Brady's, which is what the most delusional have been arguing lately with ridiculous stats that ignore the story of each game.

In the end, it doesn't matter. As I've said before, history remembers rings, post season records, Superbowl appearances, etc.

15 years after they're both retired, people are not going to be thinking about the things Peyton sycophants pretend to value. Nobody brags about Dan Fouts as a GOAT in 2014. He'll have a Marino sized following for the next 20 years, after him and Brady are both gone, but it's Brady's rings and Conference Championships that the majority of people will remember and regard, inside New England and out.

 

[PatriotSeven]

Just watched NFL Live on ESPN and Ryan Clark was asked which QB was harder to prepare for.

He picked Brady, and his reasons for this were basically an echo of the OP. Saying over the years he always had to adjust to the different type of offensive systems with Brady, whereas with Manning, where he goes the offense goes with him, with the same 4-5 plays he used in Indy, being used in Denver now.

Thank you Ryan for finally saying something about this on national TV.

 

[PatsFan2]

Re: History proves if anyone, Peyton.

Has always had Elite Skilled Position Players on Offense. I want us the to win so bad on Sunday our players on Offense look so anemic to theirs on paper it would be quite a story...Brady once again does more with less.

 

[ivanvamp]

When you hear someone say that Manning never had a defense, ask them how he would have fared with the #1 defense in the entire NFL.

Whatever they say, then point them to stats for 2007, when the Indianapolis Colts had the #1 defense in the NFL (#1 in fewest yards allowed; they were 3rd in points allowed).

People are stunned to know that.

It needs to be known, and widely.

Because it blows away the single biggest excuse made for Manning's failures

Granted, their defense choked and couldn't stop Billy Volek, but a certain QB also threw two costly interceptions and had a lower passer rating than either Rivers or Volek.

Great point, though according to profootball-reference.com it was reversed: In 2007 they were #1 in points allowed, #3 in yards allowed. And in 2005, Indy had the #2 scoring D as well.

All in all, Peyton had, during his time with the Colts, 5 defenses that were #8 or better in points allowed: 2002 (7th), 2005 (2nd), 2007 (1st), 2008 (7th), 2009 (8th). And then last year with Denver he had the #4 defense in terms of points allowed.

 

[Deus Irae]

Ryan Clark just made this point without using the "system QB" label to say it, albeit in the context of talking about which QB is tougher to prepare for.

 

[sb1]

System QB = a QB who isn't good enough to play in the NFL without a strict and vanilla offensive system in place to limit the risk he'll make a mistake. There's a reason why these guys aren't long for the NFL. I'm sure no objective Pats fan really believes this describes Peyton Manning.

Any statement that Brady or Manning is a system QB is an admission of appalling ignorance about the sport. Not sure why some people would be proud to proclaim their ignorance in public but to each their own.

 

[Deus Irae]

System QB = a QB who isn't good enough to play in the NFL without a strict and vanilla offensive system in place to limit the risk he'll make a mistake. There's a reason why these guys aren't long for the NFL. I'm sure no objective Pats fan really believes this describes Peyton Manning.

Any statement that Brady or Manning is a system QB is an admission of appalling ignorance about the sport. Not sure why some people would be proud to proclaim their ignorance in public but to each their own.

Probably because

a.) It's a response to comments from elsewhere, and

b.) People don't buy into your interpretation of what a system QB is.

 

[LivinLovin&Breathin_Brady]

System QB = a QB who isn't good enough to play in the NFL without a strict and vanilla offensive system in place to limit the risk he'll make a mistake. There's a reason why these guys aren't long for the NFL. I'm sure no objective Pats fan really believes this describes Peyton Manning.

Any statement that Brady or Manning is a system QB is an admission of appalling ignorance about the sport. Not sure why some people would be proud to proclaim their ignorance in public but to each their own.

A system QB to me = a QB who plays in an offensive system that any QB (great, good or bad) can succeed in. Examples of these sorts of systems includes;

- the 49ers team from last year
- Green Bay(before the defense turned to trash)
- Indianapolis(when Manning was there)
- Denver (the past 3 years)
- New England (2007 and 2008)
- Dallas (especially when they had T.O)
- Seattle (last year and now)
- Pittsburgh (Before they got old)
- Carolina (this year)
- Kansas City

If Brady played on any of these teams he'd probably have 10 SB victories right now(unless he ran into more bad luck against the Giants). If you were to put any of those overrated QBs in New England this year or in 2006, even 2010, they would be done.
Brady has been tested in nearly every system possible and he's been successful. I haven't seen Manning do anything special except surround himself with pro-bowl caliber offenses, act like a complete fool at the LOS and stat boost against lousy opponent for the majority of the season.
Spare me the respect the future HOF'er bull. The dude is an overrated choke job, when he ain't surrounded by talent and going against scrubby defenses. That's why he's always one and done in the playoffs.