Hallelujah!!! Woody announces Rex is returning in 2014

[letekro]

There was major turnover and improvement in NY beyond Favre, after all. Hell, just on defense:

Added:
Pace (over Hobson)
Jenkins (over Robertson)
Lowery & Law (over Poteat and Barrett)
Elam (over Rhodes)

No longer rookies:
Revis
DeVito
Harris

That's before you start looking at offensive changes like the additions of Richardson and Keller. So, yeah, "an already good team", and trending upwards at the time. If I lose you because I don't choose to ignore an entire season, I'm comfortable with that.

Actually, you're choosing to ignore both playoff seasons. Oh, I forgot Rex doesn't get credit for those because Mangini so expertly coached 'em up.

Look, I'm not saying those 09 and 10 teams weren't talented, but they did have Sanchez to overcome. Both of those years, they went to the AFCCG. Those teams were, however, old and injury prone, and once the talent was no longer around Sanchez, he imploded. The last 2 years they have been rebuilding. It looks like the D is almost there. We'll see what they do about the offense in the offseason.

 

[Deus Irae]

Actually, you're choosing to ignore both playoff seasons. Oh, I forgot Rex doesn't get credit for those because Mangini so expertly coached 'em up.

I'm not ignoring them, at all. In fact, I love pointing to the first one, because it really reinforces the point. Ryan thought his team was done, to the point that he said it publicly, because he didn't even realize that they had not been mathematically eliminated. That team made the playoffs because the teams they played in the final two weeks of the season rested their players since they were already in the playoffs. His first "playoff season" only happened because the 14-0 Colts weren't trying. Then, once the Jets got into the playoffs, it took Nate Kaeding, a guy who'd gone 32-for-35 in the regular season, going 0-for-3 on field goals (36, 40, and 57 yards) for the Jets to get to the AFCCG. That's right. A kicker had to miss 2 attempts from 40 yards and less in order for the Jets to get lucky enough to get to the AFCCG. Then the luck ran out.

Look, I'm not saying those 09 and 10 teams weren't talented, but they did have Sanchez to overcome. Both of those years, they went to the AFCCG. Those teams were, however, old and injury prone, and once the talent was no longer around Sanchez, he imploded. The last 2 years they have been rebuilding. It looks like the D is almost there. We'll see what they do about the offense in the offseason.

You can't have it both ways. Either Ryan coached up another coach's players, or they weren't talented and Ryan's genius lasted 2 seasons before completely disappearing.

The answer is obvious, and we're still seeing it to this day. Ryan's a good defensive coordinator. Ryan's also a lousy head coach.

 

[goheels22002]

Rex Ryan showed signs this year of maturing as a head coach and appeared for the first time to take his job seriously. That being said, his team is what their record says they are: mediocrity incarnate.

Is that the best record that group of players could have achieved? Probably. This offseason will be a defining period for Ryan and the Jets.

 

[Deus Irae]

Rex Ryan showed signs this year of maturing as a head coach and appeared for the first time to take his job seriously. That being said, his team is what their record says they are: mediocrity incarnate.

Is that the best record that group of players could have achieved? Probably. This offseason will be a defining period for Ryan and the Jets.

He could improve, obviously. However, do you really want to be waiting on that improvement into year 6 of his tenure? That's what the Jets have been reduced to, along with praying for a huge leap by Geno Smith, and a much better job by Marty Mornhinwheg, in their second seasons.

 

[letekro]

Is that the best record that group of players could have achieved? Probably.

I couldn't have said it better myself. Now, unless you attribute it to luck or divine intervention, I would love for you to explain to me how this overachievement (or maximal achievement, if you prefer) does not lead inescapably to the conclusion that Rex did a good job this year, which is the very position, it seems, to which you have been heretofore diametrically opposed.

 

[JoeSixPat]

I think even the most die hard Jets fan will admit, that if the Colts had the balls to go for 19-0 in 2009 and didn't pull all their starters in the 2nd half of their Week 16 game with the Jets, Wrecks and the Jets finish 8-8, and out of the playoffs that year.

So not counting the season when they backed into the playoffs - some would say undeservedly - Wrecks truly "earned" post season play just once in his 5 year tenure.

Of course, that still makes him the best coach of the Jets in recent memory. I think he and that organization deserve each other. I still have a sneaking suspicion that Belichick let Wrecks win their annual "Super Bowl" (which is what they consider their regular season game against the Pats since they have no shot at the real thing) just in an effort to help Wrecks get an extension.

Belichick is always thinking long term and he did us all a favor with that loss - maybe not for this season, but most certainly to ensure a mediocre AFC East opponent for years to come!

 

[letekro]

I'm not ignoring them, at all. In fact, I love pointing to the first one, because it really reinforces the point. Ryan thought his team was done, to the point that he said it publicly, because he didn't even realize that they had not been mathematically eliminated. That team made the playoffs because the teams they played in the final two weeks of the season rested their players since they were already in the playoffs. His first "playoff season" only happened because the 14-0 Colts weren't trying. Then, once the Jets got into the playoffs, it took Nate Kaeding, a guy who'd gone 32-for-35 in the regular season, going 0-for-3 on field goals (36, 40, and 57 yards) for the Jets to get to the AFCCG. That's right. A kicker had to miss 2 attempts from 40 yards and less in order for the Jets to get lucky enough to get to the AFCCG. Then the luck ran out.



You can't have it both ways. Either Ryan coached up another coach's players, or they weren't talented and Ryan's genius lasted 2 seasons before completely disappearing.

The answer is obvious, and we're still seeing it to this day. Ryan's a good defensive coordinator. Ryan's also a lousy head coach.

Same stupid argument people use to discredit the Pats first championship. It takes a little luck to win playoff games. You can't use Nate Kaedings incompetence against Rex. And why does he get penalized for a decision made by the colts, especially when they played the full-strength Colts straight up for most of the AFCCG a month later?

And tell me, how many games would a "good coach" have won with this year's jets squad? A rookie QB, the worst receivers in the league, average at best backs and OL, and a bunch of rookies and no names on D (outside of Wilkerson)

 

[ewg_gestalt]

Same stupid argument people use to discredit the Pats first championship. It takes a little luck to win playoff games. You can't use Nate Kaedings incompetence against Rex. And why does he get penalized for a decision made by the colts, especially when they played the full-strength Colts straight up for most of the AFCCG a month later?

And when you get lucky to win a playoff game, then you have to credit a large portion of that win to luck, rather than the skill of the head coach.

I also don't think of Ryan as that great of a head coach because of the indifference he's clearly shown to the offense. A year after one of their most dismal offensive showings in history, he spends his top two draft picks on defensive players. Time and time again, he's basically all but telegraphed that his main concern is defense. He stuck with Sanchez far too long in past seasons when it was clear he was clueless. He completely mismanaged the Tebow situation last year seemingly out of spite. (Granted, that was a gigantic pile of FAIL for everybody concerned, but Ryan has to take his portion of the blame.) He allowed Tony Sporano to be hired as the offensive coordinator to replace Brian Schottenheimer. (If he had no input into the decision, then he's abrogating his duties as HC, and should be fired by any GM with a working brain.)

He's a defensive guru, for sure. But there's no way I'd want to see him as head coach of NE.

 

[letekro]

And when you get lucky to win a playoff game, then you have to credit a large portion of that win to luck, rather than the skill of the head coach.

I also don't think of Ryan as that great of a head coach because of the indifference he's clearly shown to the offense. A year after one of their most dismal offensive showings in history, he spends his top two draft picks on defensive players. Time and time again, he's basically all but telegraphed that his main concern is defense. He stuck with Sanchez far too long in past seasons when it was clear he was clueless. He completely mismanaged the Tebow situation last year seemingly out of spite. (Granted, that was a gigantic pile of FAIL for everybody concerned, but Ryan has to take his portion of the blame.) He allowed Tony Sporano to be hired as the offensive coordinator to replace Brian Schottenheimer. (If he had no input into the decision, then he's abrogating his duties as HC, and should be fired by any GM with a working brain.)

He's a defensive guru, for sure. But there's no way I'd want to see him as head coach of NE.

I don't really get the sticking with sanchez criticism because they had no viable alternatives, and this year they drafted Geno high.

Tebow? Like the Pats, they got him into camp and figured out he can't play. They just spent more to get him. Hard to say what portion of the blame falls on Rex vs. the GM.

Sparano was a terrible hire. Again not sure what portion is Rex and what is the GM.

 

[Tunescribe]

explain to me how this overachievement (or maximal achievement, if you prefer) does not lead inescapably to the conclusion that Rex did a good job this year

You are assuming he's a conventional NFL head coach, which he is not. He's always been a good defensive coach. With the Green Beans he never has been hands-on with the offense, so perhaps you might toss a few bouquets to Marty Mornhinweg.

Remember that the Green Beans were two EXTREMELY flukey plays away from 6-10 -- the late hit by Tampa on Smith out of bounds in the season opener, and the bad call vs. New England we've already discussed. Both happened at the end of their respective games and enabled New Jersey to kick winning field goals.

 

[ewg_gestalt]

I don't really get the sticking with sanchez criticism because they had no viable alternatives, and this year they drafted Geno high.

After they failed to get Manning, they gave Sanchez an ill-advised two-year extension, then failed to draft or sign via free agency anybody who could provide meaningful competition or at least fulfill backup duties if needed. Therefore, they did stick with Sanchez far too long.

Tebow? Like the Pats, they got him into camp and figured out he can't play. They just spent more to get him. Hard to say what portion of the blame falls on Rex vs. the GM.

Woody Johnson was the "brain"-child for that blunder. But it was ultimately Sporano, Rex, and Tannenbaum who decided to keep him on the team but not to use him in any meaningful capacity.

Sparano was a terrible hire. Again not sure what portion is Rex and what is the GM.

Like I said, at a minimum, Rex had to have approved of the choice. So he showed spectacularly bad judgment in his choice of OC's, which again reinforces the issue that he doesn't have a grasp of how to run an offense. You can't be a good head coach if you ignore any of the three units (offense, defense, or special teams).

 

[JoeSixPat]

You are assuming he's a conventional NFL head coach, which he is not.

To me you need look no further than how he handled Sanchez from the start. A top rated QB coming out of college early who often seemed to have confidence issues though had a ton of raw talent.

How does Wrecks handle that? Immediately starts the young QB, then guarantees to every New Yorker that Sanchez will win a Super Bowl (twice) and taking other steps to crush his confidence - but then backs giving him a costly contract extension to restore the confidence that he crushed, simultaneously ham-stringing the team cap-wise.

And that's just one collective instance in which the HC of the NYJ has put his genius to work.

 

[lamafist]

Yes, it is. Sanchez was Ryan's handpicked choice.

Is there somewhere particular you get this idea from? I mean, Mike Tannenbaum was never a "laissez faire" type GM -- quite the opposite, actually -- and Ryan had only been with the Jets three months before the 2009 draft. It was very much Tannenbaum's draft room, and it's not like Ryan had any prior connection to Sanchez or USC or anything. I don't see a brand-new defensive-minded head wielding the juice to push his GM (who just hired him) into trading up to the #5 overall pick for a quarterback, when there were guys like BJ Raji and Clay Matthews to be had.

Meanwhile, the move seems totally in line with Mike Tannenbaum's MO. He's always trading up in drafts, and approaches player acquisition with as much of an eye toward publicity as toward team building.

You're not the only one to make this claim in this thread, but really, what games are you watching? I see most of the Jets games and what I see is a HC that has horrible in game skills. He routinely mismanages the clock, botches his challenges, and screws up his time outs. I rarely see half time adjustments that work. His vaunted D often fails to get the needed stop to to put the game away. And when his offense is on the sideline, I never see him talking to, or coaching up his players.

The best I can say is he sometimes schemes up a good D against us, but even with all his assembled early round talent, even his defenses have been declining over the last few years. And none of this takes into account how his team is undisciplined and has a ridiculous number of stupid penalties on both sides of the ball.

You're right, "game-day" is probably not the right term for what I'm trying to say. "Game-plan" is probably closer.

 

[Deus Irae]

Same stupid argument people use to discredit the Pats first championship. It takes a little luck to win playoff games. You can't use Nate Kaedings incompetence against Rex. And why does he get penalized for a decision made by the colts, especially when they played the full-strength Colts straight up for most of the AFCCG a month later?

And tell me, how many games would a "good coach" have won with this year's jets squad? A rookie QB, the worst receivers in the league, average at best backs and OL, and a bunch of rookies and no names on D (outside of Wilkerson)

It's not the same argument people use to discredit the Patriots first championship. It's nothing at all like that argument, in fact. The Patriots weren't lucky to get into the playoffs. And, if you're referring to the tuck rule, which is nothing like anything I was posting about, it was correctly called and had cost the Patriots a game earlier in the year, whereas the OT call in the Jets game had been taught differently to the teams during the offseason by the league, had never been called before, has not been called since, and was not called when the Jets did the same thing earlier in the same game.

As for this year, please. Ryan won 2 games directly because of the officials (Should have lost the game against the Bucs, and the Patriots should have gotten the ball in excellent position on OT in their game). Without the horrible calls, the Jets could easily have been 6-10, and then you're not braying about the toe-lover.

 

[Deus Irae]

Is there somewhere particular you get this idea from?

From Rex Ryan, who personally watched Sanchez at a pre draft workout and went to dinner with him.

 

[Tunescribe]

From Rex Ryan, who personally watched Sanchez at a pre draft workout and went to dinner with him.

This might explain a lot. Wrecks was more focused on the food than his future quarterback.

Sanchez: "Coach, I need to be honest here. I've really got this thing for linemen's rear ends."
Wrecks: "(chomp, nosh, slurp) Damn, this prime rib is f-cking great ... What's that Mark?"

 

[letekro]

After they failed to get Manning, they gave Sanchez an ill-advised two-year extension, then failed to draft or sign via free agency anybody who could provide meaningful competition or at least fulfill backup duties if needed. Therefore, they did stick with Sanchez far too long.



Woody Johnson was the "brain"-child for that blunder. But it was ultimately Sporano, Rex, and Tannenbaum who decided to keep him on the team but not to use him in any meaningful capacity.



Like I said, at a minimum, Rex had to have approved of the choice. So he showed spectacularly bad judgment in his choice of OC's, which again reinforces the issue that he doesn't have a grasp of how to run an offense. You can't be a good head coach if you ignore any of the three units (offense, defense, or special teams).

I think you misunderstand the role of a GM (particularly a very experienced one like Tannenbaum) vs. the role of a head coach (particularly an inexperienced one like Rex). Rex probably had very little power under Tannenbaum re personnel. It won't take you long to find articles explaining that Tannenbaum's firing was a direct consequence of HIS decision to sign Sanchez to an extension.

Again, Sparano was a bad hire. I'm not sure that makes Rex a bad coach.

 

[letekro]

From Rex Ryan, who personally watched Sanchez at a pre draft workout and went to dinner with him.

Well, you've convinced me. Based on this, there is no question that Rex made the call on Sanchez. It's like when Belichick went to dinner with Tebow before the draft and then the Pats drafted him....oh wait.

GMs pick players. Their livelihood depends on those picks turning out well. No way Tannenbaum would have ceded that responsibility to a first time, rookie HC like Rex, your very compelling "evidence" above notwithstanding.

 

[letekro]

It's not the same argument people use to discredit the Patriots first championship. It's nothing at all like that argument, in fact. The Patriots weren't lucky to get into the playoffs. And, if you're referring to the tuck rule, which is nothing like anything I was posting about, it was correctly called and had cost the Patriots a game earlier in the year, whereas the OT call in the Jets game had been taught differently to the teams during the offseason by the league, had never been called before, has not been called since, and was not called when the Jets did the same thing earlier in the same game.

As for this year, please. Ryan won 2 games directly because of the officials (Should have lost the game against the Bucs, and the Patriots should have gotten the ball in excellent position on OT in their game). Without the horrible calls, the Jets could easily have been 6-10, and then you're not braying about the toe-lover.

Would've could've should've. I could play that game with the Pats and depending on which plays I select for redo, they could be 8-8 or 16-0. I guess, in your mind, sometimes the coach's record means everything, and sometimes it means nothing, depending on which way the wind is blowing within that forbiddingly barren expanse.

 

[Raymond]

It's like when Belichick went to dinner with Tebow before the draft and then the Pats drafted him....oh wait................

Well, it's a pretty safe bet Bill didn't plan a tatto on his arm of his gal in a Tebow jersey.