Gronk/Edelman vs. Moss/Welker

[glm]

11 and 87

if we had gotten moss in his prime maybe its different but we didn't.

Moss took too many plays off, and welker had to many Big time drops.

In the end the only thing that matters is Superbowls, and we have 1 with minitron and gronk.

Another incorrect Moss myth. All deep threat wide receivers "take plays off." They have to. Most of the game they're sprinting 30-40 down the field, wash, rinse, and repeat.

 

[Oswlek]

Not good, considering Seattle D was much better than that Giants D that SB year. We only put up 14 that game remember?

They also put up 38 just a month prior. In New York.

A lot of things had to go perfectly for NY to win that game... and every single one did. Change any of them, Brady's ankle, Neal's injury, Faulk's injury, K. Brady's injury and you have a completely different game.

That said, I agree that the 2007 team wouldn't have matched up as well against Seattle. The OL wouldn't have been dominated, but the secondary would have kept Moss and Welker in check. The versatility of this group is why I give the edge to Gronk/Jules, but people let one game obscure how great that 2007 offense was.

 

[glm]

What an idiotic thing to say. Coaches don't win anything.

I'm pretty sure BB has won 4 SB rings as our HC.

If course coaches are an indispensable part of winning. So is QB. So is an offense. So is a defense. WTH?

You do realize the HC oversees all of these right? They usually have their own coordinators that they work with and compliments what they would like to see on the field (Think Parcells with BB as his DC).

How did Joe Gibbs do his second time around?

Not that well, although I don't see why you have to bring up his second head coaching stint. How about we use his first stint where he won 3 SB's with 3 different quarterbacks, one of those years he created one of the greatest teams ever (1991 redskins), and cemented himself as one of the greatest coaches ever.

So you seriously think Tom Coughlin is a BETTER coach then BB? If not, why not? He's beaten him in the SB twice in two tries.

How in the hell did you even begin to draw this conclusion from what I wrote? Using my logic we'd see that BB has a better regular season record than Coughlin, a better postseason record than Coughlin, and has won double the amount of SB Rings as a HC than Coughlin does. Using my logic we'd arrive to the conclusion that BB is a much better HC than Coughlin.

As I said HC's are judged by how well they win.

 

[chasa]

Another incorrect Moss myth. All deep threat wide receivers "take plays off." They have to. Most of the game they're sprinting 30-40 down the field, wash, rinse, and repeat.

Moss took more then a few.

 

[glm]

They also put up 38 just a month prior. In New York.

A lot of things had to go perfectly for NY to win that game... and every single one did. Change any of them, Brady's ankle, Neal's injury, Faulk's injury, K. Brady's injury and you have a completely different game.

That said, I agree that the 2007 team wouldn't have matched up as well against Seattle. The OL wouldn't have been dominated, but the secondary would have kept Moss and Welker in check. The versatility of this group is why I give the edge to Gronk/Jules, but people let one game obscure how great that 2007 offense was.

This is pretty much spot on.

 

[glm]

Moss took more then a few.

Can you give me some actual examples?

 

[AzorianPats]

Moss never ran a route in the middle of the field? My God I'm sick of this myth. Randy went over the middle plenty of times, for example, during the Colts game in 2007 Randy went over the middle, did a crazy one handed catch, then held on to the ball while he got the crapped knocked out of him.

One example...what else?

 

[AzorianPats]

GLM you are going to have to accept that people are going to completely rewrite history,to make it fit the agenda they want.

It is what it is.

Right..because no one here claiming Moss and Welker had no supporting cast that year. Apparently now Gaffney and Stallworth were just bums..Thats not revisionist history?

 

[AzorianPats]

Moss took more then a few.

GLM forgets Moss last game as a Patriot...

 

[glm]

One example...what else?

So glad you asked:



It's a myth that isn't true in the slightest and nothing more.

 

[BingoBrown]

Reading this thread reminds me of an H.G. Wells classic.......

Yet across the gulf of space, minds that are to our minds as ours are to those of the beasts that perish, intellects vast and cool and unsympathetic, regarded this Patriots with envious eyes, and slowly and surely drew their plans against us.
— H. G. Wells (1898), The War of the Worlds

Apology's to Mr. Wells

 

[Bruins29]

Right..because no one here claiming Moss and Welker had no supporting cast that year. Apparently now Gaffney and Stallworth were just bums..Thats not revisionist history?

I am trying to avoid the minute details of this because its fine to like who you like as long as people arent being ridiculous. Stallworth and Gaf were fine players. With that said (and I talked about this in another thread) the 15 team has more depth in this area and beyond. you get a bit more with BL and DA plus you have Dobson.

Everyone just like who you like. This "better" **** is stupid. They all played for the Pats and were great. Some were a bit unlucky, some were in a position to make a play.

 

[glm]

Right..because no one here claiming Moss and Welker had no supporting cast that year. Apparently now Gaffney and Stallworth were just bums..Thats not revisionist history?

Who said Gaffney and Stallworth were bumbs?

The year where Moss and Welker had no supporting cast was in 2009. We had a special teamer named Sam friggin Aiken as our third receiver and a rookie Julian Edelman (who wasn't close to the level he is now) as Wes' backup.

 

[glm]

GLM forgets Moss last game as a Patriot...

In 2010, when he was obviously done? That's your example?

How about we keep to 2007-2009. You know, where he actually had gas in the tank still and wasn't running on fumes.

 

[AzorianPats]

So glad you asked:



It's a myth that isn't true in the slightest and nothing more.

Congratulations. You just posted a 10 minute video of Moss career, and the first 5 minutes, there was a whopping 2 plays of him doing that in a Patriots uniform. Great job!

 

[AzorianPats]

In 2010, when he was obviously done? That's your example?

How about we keep to 2007-2009. You know, where he actually had gas in the tank still and wasn't running on fumes.

Why cuz that suits your argumemt more? He started the 2010 season ok. He just quit.

 

[IllegalContact]

the results speak for themselves.......gronk/edelman productivity did not decline in the playoffs

the offense as built now would have won the SB in 2007 and 2011

 

[Soul_Survivor88]

Congratulations. You just posted a 10 minute video of Moss career, and the first 5 minutes, there was a whopping 2 plays of him doing that in a Patriots uniform. Great job!

FYI, there used to be plenty of youtube clips of Randy Moss highlights of him as a Patriots...but the NFL* has since taken them down for "copyright violations"

 

[Bruins29]

the results speak for themselves.......gronk/edelman productivity did not decline in the playoffs

the offense as built now would have won the SB in 2007 and 2011

Probably. This is a different offense with more depth and built to be much more dimensional. Plus what killed us those Sbs was that pass rush. So BB devised an offense that allowed TB to counter that.

Its called smart coach and GM

 

[glm]

Congratulations. You just posted a 10 minute video of Moss career,

Alright let's review. You said:

Plus as much as I loved Moss, he was never going to run a route in the middle of the field.

I said it was a myth and described a play where Randy went over the middle.

You said:

One example...what else?

So in response to this was a 10 minute video of Randy doing nothing but going over the middle.

Your response to the video was:

Congratulations. You just posted a 10 minute video of Moss career,

You are completely and utterly wrong. Accept it and move on.

and the first 5 minutes, there was a whopping 2 plays of him doing that in a Patriots uniform. Great job!

Do you expect for all of his over the middle catches with the Patriots to be condensed in the first 5 minutes of the video? Point is that Randy Moss went over the middle. The video is indisputable evidence. You gonna keep doing your best Roger Goodell impression and ignore the facts even when they're staring you in the face?

You're wrong. Accept it.