Greatest rookie impact in 2010

[Patspsycho]

For that same reason I'm going with a dark horse and say Taylor Price.

I don't think he's a dark horse. I think he's a realistic prospect.

 

[mitsudriver]

Zoltan Mesko. The guys 6' 4" and 240 pounds. If he doesn't work out as a punter we could try him out at olb.

 

[DW Toys]

Toys...forget Kiper when it comes to the Pats...or the Colts...he's got an axe to grind with both teams because of past slights

You may be right on Kiper.

At the end of the day I was roasted for suggesting we take a flyer on RFA Ray Edwards. with our #1 pick.
I would like to do a survey now.
Assuming the Drafted players and UDFA would stay the same.
I have a three part question.

1-How many of you Cousins would have rather we stayed in #27 and Drafted Dez Bryant over McCourty if we could do first round "do overs"?

2-Will Dez Bryant be more of an Impact player than McCourty will ever be?

3-I was roasted for this, but even at the Pats final #1 Drafting position and leaving everything else the same as far as picks, we still could have gotten Ray Edwards. Would you trade that McCourty slot for Viking DE/OLB Ray Edwards as this is all it would cost us was that pick?...... McCourty will not get much less than Edwards to resign him and yet McCourty has not played one NFL down.

Appears to me we have not addressed the pass rush issue and OLB is still a bigger problem now that AD has left.
DW Toys

 

[WaterfallJumper]

Time to put you back in the toy chest.

McCourty is probably the most likely of all the corners drafted to be an instant star. I think he's better than Haden--and the numbers agree with me. More WR reroutes, better YPA and YPC numbers, comparable break-ups and interceptions, and significantly better YPA numbers against the run. He's also slightly bigger and faster, not to mention the quickest corner through the 3-cone drill. Yes, he's a great special teamer, but that's in addition to what he does well: play corner.

Bryant would be awesome on this team . . . if he only had to run a few routes. He can't sight-adjust, has problems with learning playbooks, and is nowhere near as explosive as people make him out to be. In space, he's a terror with the ball in his hands, but I don't think he's as good a prospect as, say, Floyd, Green, or Baldwin.

I much prefer McCourty + Price to Bryant + headaches.

 

[DW Toys]

Time to put you back in the toy chest.

McCourty is probably the most likely of all the corners drafted to be an instant star. I think he's better than Haden--and the numbers agree with me. More WR reroutes, better YPA and YPC numbers, comparable break-ups and interceptions, and significantly better YPA numbers against the run. He's also slightly bigger and faster, not to mention the quickest corner through the 3-cone drill. Yes, he's a great special teamer, but that's in addition to what he does well: play corner.

Bryant would be awesome on this team . . . if he only had to run a few routes. He can't sight-adjust, has problems with learning playbooks, and is nowhere near as explosive as people make him out to be. In space, he's a terror with the ball in his hands, but I don't think he's as good a prospect as, say, Floyd, Green, or Baldwin.

I much prefer McCourty + Price to Bryant + headaches.

Fair answer. Why would Bryant cost more?
DW Toys

 

[Metaphors]

1-How many of you Cousins would have rather we stayed in #27 and Drafted Dez Bryant over McCourty if we could do first round "do overs"?

You have to look at the question in the context of the whole draft. The top CBs were gone in the 1st round and the next wave finished in the early 3rd. At that point, 10 CBs are gone and you are looking at projects...which the Pats secondary needs like a hole in the head.

WR was completely different. The Pats got the 12th WR but Price is a solid player that should contribute immediately. He attacks all areas of the field, uncovers quickly and has reliable hands. Looking at the situation now, taking Bryant 1st would have had an impact on the ability to improve other areas. Addressing WR later (but still getting quality) allowed the Pats to get needs filled when the value was right.

So the question isn't McCourty vs. Bryant. It is McCourty + rest of draft vs. Bryant + rest of draft.

2-Will Dez Bryant be more of an Impact player than McCourty will ever be?

Define "impact". Would having Bryant on offense vs. Price lead to more success than having McCourty on defense vs. a lower rated talent? I've said for a while that the Pats greatest issue is not being able to stop QBs late in games. McCourty directly addresses this issue. I'm not a fan of loading up the offense to make defensive limitations irrelevant. It works for a while but leaves you vulnerable against weather or a "bad day" in the playoffs.

Add the special teams value from McCourty and there is a pretty solid case that the "impact" from McCourty should be greater. Also add in the perspective that next year's draft should have multiple stud receivers and spending a #1 this year doesn't seem prudent.

3-I was roasted for this, but even at the Pats final #1 Drafting position and leaving everything else the same as far as picks, we still could have gotten Ray Edwards. Would you trade that McCourty slot for Viking DE/OLB Ray Edwards as this is all it would cost us was that pick?...... McCourty will not get much less than Edwards to resign him and yet McCourty has not played one NFL down.[/B]

Suh hasn't played one NFL down either. Unless you are advocating never signing any rookies (which is impractical), this particular point makes no sense.

As for Edwards vs. McCourty, it is a legitimate question. My question back to you is how would you have addressed the CB and return needs for this year? If you could get something comparable to McCourty and still get Edwards, I would think that would be a good deal.

 

[sieglo]

Gronk and Spikes.... Best football names.

 

[WaterfallJumper]

Fair answer. Why would Bryant cost more?
DW Toys

I don't believe I said he would cost more.

All I know is that by trading back in the first round, we ended up with McCourty, Price, and Hernandez. I'm willing to bet they do more to upgrade the team overall than Bryant alone. That's all.

 

[Coach42]

You may be right on Kiper.

At the end of the day I was roasted for suggesting we take a flyer on RFA Ray Edwards. with our #1 pick.
I would like to do a survey now.
Assuming the Drafted players and UDFA would stay the same.
I have a three part question.

1-How many of you Cousins would have rather we stayed in #27 and Drafted Dez Bryant over McCourty if we could do first round "do overs"?

2-Will Dez Bryant be more of an Impact player than McCourty will ever be?

3-I was roasted for this, but even at the Pats final #1 Drafting position and leaving everything else the same as far as picks, we still could have gotten Ray Edwards. Would you trade that McCourty slot for Viking DE/OLB Ray Edwards as this is all it would cost us was that pick?...... McCourty will not get much less than Edwards to resign him and yet McCourty has not played one NFL down.

Appears to me we have not addressed the pass rush issue and OLB is still a bigger problem now that AD has left.
DW Toys

I agree with some of the earlier argument made against these thoughts. Let's not forget trading down to 27 got us 90 so if we stayed and drafted Bryant (assuming all other picks went accordingly) we are looking at 4th round corners or possibly drafting a CB at 89 and not acquiring a 2011 2nd rounder. Also, grabbing Edwards is essentially the same as drafting a rookie. While he does have NFL experience its in a 4-3 with 3 of the best D lineman in the NFL by his side. Expecting him to have the same impact at 3-4 OLB without the same level of pass rushers he is used to playing next to in Minnesota is a massive projection. While it is possible he could do it, it is certainly not a slam dunk.

 

[PatsFanInVa]

Gronk and Spikes.... Best football names.

If they wash out they can team up and do a retro 70s-style cop show.

 

[DW Toys]

You have to look at the question in the context of the whole draft. The top CBs were gone in the 1st round and the next wave finished in the early 3rd. At that point, 10 CBs are gone and you are looking at projects...which the Pats secondary needs like a hole in the head.

WR was completely different. The Pats got the 12th WR but Price is a solid player that should contribute immediately. He attacks all areas of the field, uncovers quickly and has reliable hands. Looking at the situation now, taking Bryant 1st would have had an impact on the ability to improve other areas. Addressing WR later (but still getting quality) allowed the Pats to get needs filled when the value was right.

So the question isn't McCourty vs. Bryant. It is McCourty + rest of draft vs. Bryant + rest of draft.



Define "impact". Would having Bryant on offense vs. Price lead to more success than having McCourty on defense vs. a lower rated talent? I've said for a while that the Pats greatest issue is not being able to stop QBs late in games. McCourty directly addresses this issue. I'm not a fan of loading up the offense to make defensive limitations irrelevant. It works for a while but leaves you vulnerable against weather or a "bad day" in the playoffs.

Add the special teams value from McCourty and there is a pretty solid case that the "impact" from McCourty should be greater. Also add in the perspective that next year's draft should have multiple stud receivers and spending a #1 this year doesn't seem prudent.



Suh hasn't played one NFL down either. Unless you are advocating never signing any rookies (which is impractical), this particular point makes no sense.

As for Edwards vs. McCourty, it is a legitimate question. My question back to you is how would you have addressed the CB and return needs for this year? If you could get something comparable to McCourty and still get Edwards, I would think that would be a good deal.

Why was the CB a question of urgency I will trow back at you Cousin? Still not sold on the idea that CB was our#1 need as the Draft clearly shows it was the way BB felt. Something still does not add up. BB missed out on somebody and McCourty was plan "B". Maybe the key was the Eagles went up to get Graham. Perhaps the FO feeling was Graham would be available prior to the Eagles pick? Maybe that is why the Eagles decided to move up?

Like the cold hard fact of the NFL, your CB is as good as your defensive pressure up front. Even Wilhite could look All Pro if the opposing QB is being harassed.
I think at the end of the day, Edwards (young, experienced and starting to come into his own and we have a good D-Line core too, so no excuses) in the McCourty slot would have been the right call if all the pass rushers BB targeted were gone.
DW Toys