Frank Coyle/Draft Insiders 2-Round Mock

[Box_O_Rocks]

If Everett Brown can play the 3-4 OLB spot, that's a pretty good athlete to plug in. And at 6'4 252, I think he's big enough. For ILB Brandon Spikes is a playmaker. OLB>ILB in terms of need though.

ESPN - Draft Buzz: Everette Brown and Brian Orakpo among top five pass-rushers



Hogwash, the same was said of ANY linebacker in general before the 2008 draft proved otherwise because the Pats system required 'veterans' to learn the complex D quickly. The fact is that talent overcomes experience and the Pats had not find a talent worthy of being selected before Mayo came along. Mayo's super talent and intellegence translated into instant starter. BTW BOTH college OLB and ILB require "conversion" to fit the Pats 3-4 defensive scheme. And news flash - AD was supposed to be our elephant back. The newly drafted LBer doesn't need to be an elephant to be usable in the defense.

That's the problem with "hogwash," you provide ONE example - Mayo - and extrapolate from there. If we used the same reasoning, we'd insist that only a Top 10 LB has the tools needed - okay, some of us have - but that assumes that any of us has the same scouting data BB/Pioli have, which had them passing on the more heavily touted Rivers from USC to take the relative unknown, Mayo. I'm happy to say I forecast Mayo, perhaps I'll get lucky again, but for now I don't see a rookie "fix" for OLB, which includes Brown and Orakpo.

I wouldn't mind Spikes for ILB, though I'd much rather find someone with a Ted Johnson playing style.

 

[Mark Morse]

Herzlich is a beast

I have seen Mark Herzlich play 15 times over the past two years. He is an absolte beast out there. At 6'4" and nearly 250 he will be an OLB 1st and ILB on passing downs. He has incredible pass defending skills for a LB, as evident by his 6 INT this year. His father has repeatedly said he's coming back to get his degree, but that may be after he gets drafted. Herzlich will get an estimate from the NFL of where he will get drafted before he makes his decision. IMO he doesn't get past the Patriots in the 1st round.

 

[Warren94]

still hoping for a guy like William Moore to fall solidify the secondary. I agree with the points made about OLB. don't know much about Herzlich. need to do research on him. Sean Jones the Safety for the Browns is a free agent.

 

[VJCPatriot]

The Quad Q&A: BC Linebacker Mark Herzlich - The Quad Blog - NYTimes.com

Based on the interview... Herzlich seems like an interesting character. Hopefully he's more football player than workout warrior though, unlike BC alum Mike Mamula.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

The Quad Q&A: BC Linebacker Mark Herzlich - The Quad Blog - NYTimes.com

Based on the interview... Herzlich seems like an interesting character. Hopefully he's more football player than workout warrior though, unlike BC alum Mike Mamula.

Football player.

 

[DaBruinz]

NFL Draft ?09 - Two Round Mock Draft | Draft Insiders' Digest

Instead of (OLB?)Everette Brown at #20, how about CB Alphonso Smith?

Another CB at #43 sounds good, too, but would Domonique Johnson - instead of Mike Mickens, DJ Moore, Captain Munnerlyn or Darius Butler - be the right choice?

I don't like his pick at #57 at all. Can Tyson Jackson play OLB?

Stone - why is it that you continually rant about the CB position and are unwilling to realize that BB and Pioli have made it a priority to build from the line out.

The Pats have 3 young corners in Hobbs, Wilhite and Wheatley. Could they add another sure? But what makes you think that they will prioritize that over the offensive or defensive lines?

I highly doubt the Pats look at Brown in the 1st round. Considering he's a conversation project with not a lot of time without his hand down. As for Suh, taking him in the late 2nd round does seem high for a guy who isn't even a 2nd round pick in his own draft.

I'll admit that I haven't seen Dominique Johnson play so I can't say if he's better or worse than the others. However, it should be noted that Mickens is coming off of meniscus surgery and that Butler is also coming off of a knee injury that he suffered in early November. Butler has been invited by Deion Sanders to attend Sander's Draft / NFL prep school in hope of improving his abilities.

 

[DaBruinz]

That's what I meant to say, that I don't like Coyle's choice of Suh for us at #57. Way too early for what would amount to a luxury pick (think Bumblin' Bennie Watson in '04) while we still have much more pressing needs on defense: multiple CBs, SS, OLB, DE, in that order. If Jackson is more DE than OLB, then I would rather wait for the Best Available CB, SS, or OLB at #57.

Back-up NT is a LUXURY pick? Oi Vei. Who is currently the back-up NT. OH, that's right. The Pats don't have one currently since Mike Wright is a UFA. If Wilfork walks, who is there to replace him? Do you seriously want to try trading for someone to play NT at the last minute the way the Pats did with Ted Washington?

To say that taking Suh is a luxury pick by taking him at the end of the 2nd round is, um, way off. I just dont' know if Suh is worthy of the pick. Not whether taking a NT there is an issue.

 

[DaBruinz]

There's no 'posing' involved. Any college linebacker needs a 'conversion' to the Pats system. As DEs generally turn into OLBs for us and OLBs turn into ILBs for us. A 3-4 2 gap is a lot different from what most college guys play in. That's just fact. And just because Gholston may be a 'bust' for the Jets has no relevance on the next year's draft class.

That would be like insisting because Vince Young was a bust at QB for the Titans in 2007 that all the other QBs in the 2008 draft class would be bad. After watching Matt Ryan and Flacco in action, can we agree that kind of thinking has absolutely no relational value??

While you are finally correct in that the 3-4 2Gap is a lot different than what most guys plays, I think you drastically understate the time it takes for people to learn and become effective. Either that, or you just aren't able to wrap your arms around it. Either way, its going to be 6 months to a year before a player taken to be an OLB for the Pats shows something on the field. Mayo, so far, is the exception to the rule. Could the Pats find another talent in the draft who is like Mayo and who can come in and be awesome? Sure. ANYTHING is possible. But what is probable? That any OLB they draft is going to take 6months to a year to be productive. And, in the mean time, what are the Pats supposed to do?

I have a feeling that this draft is going to be big for the Patriots. Not just in terms of impact on the team, but in terms of numbers. I think that we'll see the Pats draft more than 10 players this year and keep most/all of them.

 

[captain stone]

Herzlich has turned out to be a much better playmaker than Toal, who gt much more press when he signed with BC.

Here is the problem. If you assume that Mayo stays at the weak ILB spot next season, it leaves us with a huge hole on the strong side. Thomas is the ideal fit to handle the ILB slot on the strong side, but moving Thomas inside leaves nothing to rush the passer on the outside for next season. (if only BB had traded up for Groves, it still stings)

Vrabel should return for a final season at one OLB spot, and I expect him to have a better season, given the extra month of rest his ailing shoulder will receive this off season.

So what does this draft offer as far as OLB's that can rush the passer. Unfortunately, nothing! Brown, Selvie, Johnson and Maybin are not going to cut it on outisde for the Pats. They would be for us what Gholston was for the Jets, a projection that needs a few years to learn a whole new position at best. At worst a bust.

Some guys that might work at OLB for next season.

Crable - (Currently on roster) a disspointment this year, but he gets to spend an off season with Woicik to get stronger and by next TC he will have a year in the system.

Cushing USC- (Requires a draft pick probably 1st or 2nd round) Has experience in the elephant type position at USC which requires him to play with his hand off the ground at times. Huge questions about a history with roids and has struggled to stay healthy.

Mathews USC - (Requires draft pick probabl 3rd or 4th round) Same creditials as Cushings, however while he has a higher revving motor, and he will need a year or two in the systembefore contributing on anything other than ST.

Shaunnesy Wisconsin - (Requires draft pick probably second round) High revving motor but solid against the run. No experience playing with his hand off the ground, so he will need a year or two in the system before he can contribute, but once he figures it out, he has a higher ceiling than any of those mentioned before.

If we keep Thomas on the outside, I see the draft having two good candidates to take over the strong side ILB position next season.

1.) Brinkley South Carolina - (Requires draft pick probably a second or third rounder) Provided he is recovered from knee surgery, he is a huge 275 pounder with decent instincts and decent speed. He can mash and he can cover.

2.) Laurenitis OSU - (Requires draft pick probably a first rounder) I was not high on him until this season when he finally learned how to take on and shed blockers as opposed to running around them. Instincts are not first rate, but he can stop the run and he can cover better than expected.

Och - what's your opinion of Sintim? Is he just another Al Groh LB unworthy of consideration, or could he provide value as a 2nd-rounder, if he drops that far?

 

[captain stone]

DaB - the spirit of Christmas must be possessing you, for your 2 rebuttals do not contain nearly the amount of spit 'n vinegar as in the past.

While I would love to upgrade the backup NT position, the FO has had opportunities itself to do so - as recently as the most recent draft - and has failed to act. So why commit a top-100 pick on a backup for the '09 season, when there are starting positions available at SS, CB, SILB and poss. at OLB? I say sign a vet for backup NT, work on a Wilfork extension, draft a NT on Day 2, and worry about '10 in '10.

As for the CBs, I'm just not sold - at all - on a 4some of Hobbs, Wheatley, Wilhite & Richardson: too small, too soft, too injury-prone and too untalented. Unless the FO makes a splash - a big one - in the FA pool, then CB must be a strong top-100 priority, along w/ SS & pass-rushing OLB/DE, as I'm also not sold on Vrabel, Crable, Woods & Colvin.